The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

[Puck Swami]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

AS a Denver fan, I certainly had my fill of Wahs in October. That guy was amazing against us, and I'm sure glad he didn't go to CC, which I know he was considering before signing with UVM. Good hockey player, and wish him the best. I would imagine that his school would be free for the remainder of the year, assuming he was on a full scholarship, so good to see him take advantage of getting the degree.

As I read between the lines, there are some unanswered program questions that do jump out at me. Clearly, Sneddon is trying to instill a culture of respect and accountability in his program, and no one should question the integrity of Sneddon. I know Kevin a little bit, and he's a straight-arrow, stand-up guy who believes in high standards, and that is very commendable. UVM is a fantastic place, and hockey means alot to the whole state.

That said, the challenge I have is that UVM is recruiting these guys presumably for character as well as talent. I am sure Kevin runs a high-committment program, and clearly, some players aren't measuring up in his mind, but at the same time, even character guys will leave a program if they are feeling that their own committment level isn't being recognized in ice time, development or a rewarding experience.

Seems to me that the Cats are having a 4-12 season that no one expected, and I am sure that there is way more tension around a team that's losing more than it wins. Teammates start to question everything when things aren't working, and rightly so. They question their fellow teammates, they question the coaches and they question themselves.

The solution here is likely getting deeper into character issues when recruiting, and being really straight with the players about UVM expectations so that players know what they are signing up for, and being consistent in how you hold players accountable. Oh, and make sure that fun is part of the culture, win or lose. Fun happens naturally when you are winning, but maintaining a fun program when you are losing is also an art form...

 

[Martin St. Louis Fan]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

Very well said............

 

[HOCKEYGUY23]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

I would hardly say that is indicitive of a character issue that would warrant criticizing Sneddon's judgement regarding his recruits...[/QUOTE]

I wasn't criticizing his judgement, merely pointing to the fact that doesn't necessarily get the best character kids that he can get at a Harvard. Their standards are higher, that's not even an arguement.

Secondly, I mentioned that I thought he would get frustrated with the character of the kids he gets. Did that not seem evident in his comments about Wahs.

He's a great man, I just don't know how much of this BS he wants to continue to endure when alma mater is calling.

 

[Miami Ice]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

Sneddon is a good man. Sometimes it just not in the stars. Ten years at Union and a very creditable job in Burlington has burnished his C.V. 2011 is a bad dream. It will end and the Cats will be back...with him.

 

[Martin St. Louis Fan]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

I can't possibly see a reason for Coach Sneddon to leave. He has achieved success the past couple years. Success many coaches can only dream about having. I say he will stay.

 

[HOCKEYGUY23]

I can't possibly see a reason for Coach Sneddon to leave. He has achieved success the past couple years. Success many coaches can only dream about having. I say he will stay.

I hope. I just worry of the allure of Alma mater and no extension signed with his cv why its not done

 

[Martin St. Louis Fan]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

If he does, it's a step backward IMO. Nothing against the ECAC, but it's not HE. He seems like a guy who wants to be succesful at the highest level possible!

 

[irishfan85]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

If he does, it's a step backward IMO. Nothing against the ECAC, but it's not HE. He seems like a guy who wants to be succesful at the highest level possible!

It's his alma mater, it is one of the best schools in the world, they have a national championship to their credit that he was a part of, and it is in an area that might be more attractive to his family, especially since I'd imagine he has young children. I'm not going to get into a fight over where it would be better for kids to be brought up, greater Boston or Burlington, VT, but thats a consideration. Harvard has the Beanpot. The ECAC hasn't had the success HE has had, but there is a lot of tradition and great road trips. St. Lawrence and Clarkson are great programs. Clarkson had the best all-time winning percentage in D1 history until recently. Big rivalries with Yale and Cornell.

UVM obviously has the better atmosphere as far as crowd goes and plays in one of the two best conferences in the country.

 

[Martin St. Louis Fan]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

No doubt about the success at Harvard, everything you mentioned is true.........But he always talks about striving to be the best at the HIGHEST level. HE is just that. If he wants to go to Harvard just because he has ties there, more power to him, but it kinda goes against what he tries to instill in his players.

 

[czeckthebody]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

Why do people assume the coach did the right thing with Wahs? Coaches in college have the power to ruin kids' lives and they often abuse that power. They often don't play a guy just because they don't like him or he made one mistake, and they overplay guys who don't deserve it but who are the coaches' kind of guy--usually hard working but passive types who don't have a mind of their own.
In almost every situation where a team is losing consistently, a coach looks for scapegoats so he can deflect the blame. So they knock some kid off the team and make a mess of a young man's life rather than do the right thing, which is to work with the kid and starighten out what is wrong if anything. That is what a real man would do--a coach of strong character who understands that he is a teacher and has the ability to shape a kid's life for the better or worse and is committed to doing the right thing.
Same thing in organizations--business, government, whatever. When things go bad a weak leader looks around for someone to blame and fires that person for no reason other than to shift blame. It is human weakness at its worst.
I don't have any idea what the truth is here but I would never assume that the coach did the decent and mature thing and that the kid deserved it. To assume that is incredibly unfair to the young man involved. There are coackes who are men of strength and character--Red Berenson comes to mind, and the former Yale coach whose name escapes me right now--and there are Coaches who do not understand the power they have over kids and take that power seriously and try to develop their guys as human beings and not just players. It's not all wiinning and losing, especially at schools where academics are important. It's also how you improve the lives and characters of your players, what you teach them, how big a difference you can make in their lives if you show confidence in them and support them even (especially) in difficult times. . That has a much more lasting impact than throwing young men under the bus. This has happened too many times at Vermont and it is beginning to stink.

 

[Onion Man]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

If he does, it's a step backward IMO. Nothing against the ECAC, but it's not HE. He seems like a guy who wants to be succesful at the highest level possible!

Going to Harvard is hardly a step backwards. Last I checked, Harvard has a national championship, UVM does not. Now I don't doubt that HE is a better conference (mostly because of BC and BU), the ECAC may be little more balanced overall. Yale* is having a good season until they get their wins vacated due to cheating, Cornell has had success lately, and Brown is going to win the national title this year.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

This whole dialogue is ridiculous. A.) Sneddon doesn't have a contract extension because they don't do that DURING THE SEASON. His last contract extension was announced in AUGUST. B.) Sneddon left Union and moved to Vermont because they were moving to HE. If he wanted to be an ECAC coach he would have stayed at Union. C.) Sneddon is a Hockey guy, the Ivies hamstring the teams way too much to be to his liking and while he has ties to Harvard, it's not like his entire family lives there, he grew up watching the program, lived the dream and played with them, worked as an assitant coach and bided his time. He played hockey there for 4 years. That's it. And while that carries weight you don't invest yourself into building a program for 6 years to up and leave. And Sneddon has invested himself 100%. And Finally, who says Harvard is even looking to replace their coach with Sneddon. Can anyone confirm that Donato's contract is up and Harvard isn't going to renew it and is actively looking for a new coach?


I know the team is on the rocks here, but surely there is something more worthwhile to be talking about. Like the fact that Saturday's game will be played wearing Black and Pink Jerseys that will be auctioned off to raise money for breast cancer. A very noble and wonderful idea and promotion by Vermont. Now, let me send out a plea to everyone NOT to bid on Mackenzie's Jersey. My 5 year old daughter is named Mackenzie and she is a fanatic of #2.

 

[wchaforever]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

Why do people assume the coach did the right thing with Wahs? Coaches in college have the power to ruin kids' lives and they often abuse that power. They often don't play a guy just because they don't like him or he made one mistake, and they overplay guys who don't deserve it but who are the coaches' kind of guy--usually hard working but passive types who don't have a mind of their own.
In almost every situation where a team is losing consistently, a coach looks for scapegoats so he can deflect the blame. So they knock some kid off the team and make a mess of a young man's life rather than do the right thing, which is to work with the kid and starighten out what is wrong if anything. That is what a real man would do--a coach of strong character who understands that he is a teacher and has the ability to shape a kid's life for the better or worse and is committed to doing the right thing.
Same thing in organizations--business, government, whatever. When things go bad a weak leader looks around for someone to blame and fires that person for no reason other than to shift blame. It is human weakness at its worst.
I don't have any idea what the truth is here but I would never assume that the coach did the decent and mature thing and that the kid deserved it. To assume that is incredibly unfair to the young man involved. There are coackes who are men of strength and character--Red Berenson comes to mind, and the former Yale coach whose name escapes me right now--and there are Coaches who do not understand the power they have over kids and take that power seriously and try to develop their guys as human beings and not just players. It's not all wiinning and losing, especially at schools where academics are important. It's also how you improve the lives and characters of your players, what you teach them, how big a difference you can make in their lives if you show confidence in them and support them even (especially) in difficult times. . That has a much more lasting impact than throwing young men under the bus. This has happened too many times at Vermont and it is beginning to stink.

Excellent post. One of the biggest negatives that have been birthed with the growth of message boards, is that comments are often immediately thrown out assigning blame to parties who don't always deserve it. But once it is read, the firestorm takes over and consumes the potential to search for truth. The assumption is almost always that the player is the problem, and you are correct CZECK, that isn't always the case. I have seen way to many coaches destroy kids in ways that not many people observe....physical health issues, confidence issues, relationship issues...the list can go on and on.

But I will disagree with your statement that I have bolded in that it's not all about winning and losing. I would say that might be the case in DIII, but at DI, where money, in the form of scholarships, revenue, etc. are involved, regrettably, winning does have to be the only thing. I wish it weren't so, but I think the nature of the beast dictates that it is.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

But he always talks about striving to be the best at the HIGHEST level. HE is just that.

The WCHA is just that.

Let's be honest, if he wants to go to the HIGHEST level he won't be staying at Vermont no matter how you slice it. I don't know what his intentions are but I find it hilarious to say moving to Harvard is a backward move. He's going into a bigger hockey market for a bigger name program, which is his alma mater. The league is one step down from Hockey East but you'd have to be in a drug-induced state to think that will keep him from leaving for Harvard if he wanted to go and they'd have him.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

The WCHA is just that.

Let's be honest, if he wants to go to the HIGHEST level he won't be staying at Vermont no matter how you slice it. I don't know what his intentions are but I find it hilarious to say moving to Harvard is a backward move. He's going into a bigger hockey market for a bigger name program, which is his alma mater. The league is one step down from Hockey East but you'd have to be in a drug-induced state to think that will keep him from leaving for Harvard if he wanted to go and they'd have him.

Jesus Christ Nick, thankfully you posted something I can disagree with, it was getting scary.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

http://uvmathletics.com/news/2011/1/21/MHOCKEY_0121112626.aspx

St. Louis named to the ECAC Top 50

 

[Martin St. Louis Fan]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

My opinion is based on listening to his interviews, and my brief conversations with him. Will he go to Harvard, who knows. But I do know that he is very proud of the program, and there is a lot more that can be accomplished.

 

[HOCKEYGUY23]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

I know the team is on the rocks here, but surely there is something more worthwhile to be talking about. Like the fact that Saturday's game will be played wearing Black and Pink Jerseys that will be auctioned off to raise money for breast cancer. A very noble and wonderful idea and promotion by Vermont. Now, let me send out a plea to everyone NOT to bid on Mackenzie's Jersey. My 5 year old daughter is named Mackenzie and she is a fanatic of #2.

Heard Nick is sending his posse to outbid jcarter just to aggravate him. Then heard he was going to burn jersey just to annoy jcarter more and put the imagine on the board. Im just saying......

 

[HOCKEYGUY23]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

This whole dialogue is ridiculous. A.) Sneddon doesn't have a contract extension because they don't do that DURING THE SEASON. His last contract extension was announced in AUGUST. B.) Sneddon left Union and moved to Vermont because they were moving to HE. If he wanted to be an ECAC coach he would have stayed at Union. C.) Sneddon is a Hockey guy, the Ivies hamstring the teams way too much to be to his liking and while he has ties to Harvard, it's not like his entire family lives there, he grew up watching the program, lived the dream and played with them, worked as an assitant coach and bided his time. He played hockey there for 4 years. That's it. And while that carries weight you don't invest yourself into building a program for 6 years to up and leave. And Sneddon has invested himself 100%. And Finally, who says Harvard is even looking to replace their coach with Sneddon. Can anyone confirm that Donato's contract is up and Harvard isn't going to renew it and is actively looking for a new coach?

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2006/08/17_sneddon.php

jcarter he signed in August before the last season, he had a year left. This is the last year of his contract. So following your theory he would have signed last August.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: The University of Vermont Official 2010-2011 Season Thread : Part 1

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2006/08/17_sneddon.php

jcarter he signed in August before the last season, he had a year left. This is the last year of his contract. So following your theory he would have signed last August.

Yup, clearly he is leaving after the season. Heck probably won't even finish the season, just up and quit with a few more bad losses. I'm sure Donato is trying to enjoy his last few days on the bench...