The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Also see why Ds are hesitant on impeachment. Let the glitch solve itself. If it doesn't? Then proceedings begin.....

Honestly, if trump is re-elected there is an almost zero chance impeachment would go through. And to be even more brutally honest, if he’s re-elected then the people have spoken.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

But it will be tied up in court past November 2020

Which is the whole point.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

I believe they have four million. Presumably the 500k is either those likely to vote or those with outstanding fees.

Perhaps the law says only the black ones have to pay? That would at least be more honest of the GOP.

The rich are fine and the poor can't vote. How can any court in this country -- even a GOP joke one; even this SCOTUS -- not decide that that is unconstitutional? Does anybody have standing to put a stay on it until a court decision?

 

[LynahFan]

Christie Brinkley

Just catching up - golf clap for you.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Perhaps the law says only the black ones have to pay? That would at least be more honest of the GOP.

The rich are fine and the poor can't vote. How can any court in this country -- even a GOP joke one; even this SCOTUS -- not decide that that is unconstitutional? Does anybody have standing to put a stay on it until a court decision?

It actually might be an interesting legal question.

The actual text of the amendment, with the relevant part underlined, reads as follows:

No. 4 Constitutional Amendment Article VI, Section 4. Voting Restoration Amendment This amendment restores the voting rights of Floridians with felony convictions after they complete all terms of their sentence including parole or probation. The amendment would not apply to those convicted of murder or sexual offenses, who would continue to be permanently barred from voting unless the Governor and Cabinet vote to restore their voting rights on a case by case basis.

I guess the question will be what is included in "all terms of their sentence."

It certainly seems like a fine, especially in lieu of jail time, would be included. On the other hand, "restitution" certainly seems to be more like some sort of civil remedy payable to the victims of the crime.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

My resolution is insofar as the court can levy a fine on a convict then no convict loses the right to vote ever, because while the former may not be unconstitutional the former plus the latter is.

I like the idea of convicts voting if only because it stops Podunk State from choosing to build prisons instead of taxing their rich residents. Tennessee doesn't want 50k angry black people voting in their primaries.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

The more I think about this, the more I'm bothered by the fact that we have American citizens who aren't allowed to vote. Do we really want to get into "All American citizens are allowed to vote, except for..."? I'd rather stick with a "All American citizens are allowed to vote" full stop.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

If they served their time they should vote. If they are still locked up then no.

 

[Rover]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

I don't understand how giving serial killers the right to vote became the cause celebre of the left, but it needs to end and end quickly. We can all admire Bernie and his purity, right up until the Republicans run an ad about how he's advocating for child killers and terrorists getting the right to vote. Really, we need not go there. Some people have lost their freedom due to heinous acts. They should also lose their right to vote at the same time.

I'm fully on board with people who've served their time having their voting rights restored. Lets not muck up the issue with a nonsensical extreme position.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

It’s almost like the vast majority of people in prison didn’t do any of those things :shock:

The more I think about this, the more I'm bothered by the fact that we have American citizens who aren't allowed to vote. Do we really want to get into "All American citizens are allowed to vote, except for..."? I'd rather stick with a "All American citizens are allowed to vote" full stop.

Especially if they’re being counted in the census for representation purposes.

Also if we’re afraid of disingenuous right wing attacks just fold the ****ing party.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

I don't understand how giving serial killers the right to vote became the cause celebre of the left, but it needs to end and end quickly. We can all admire Bernie and his purity, right up until the Republicans run an ad about how he's advocating for child killers and terrorists getting the right to vote. Really, we need not go there. Some people have lost their freedom due to heinous acts. They should also lose their right to vote at the same time.

I'm fully on board with people who've served their time having their voting rights restored. Lets not muck up the issue with a nonsensical extreme position.

It really only came to be a thing at all because some girl asked Bernie and went Willie Horton with her example. Unfortunately, it's a very memeable stance. I've already seen one that said "This man raped and killed your mom. He can vote, she can't."

At the same time, Bernie's stance on the issue is literally what's happening in Florida. Keep chipping away at who is an eligible voter, even after the citizens decide who they believe should be eligible.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

I don't understand how giving serial killers the right to vote became the cause celebre of the left, but it needs to end and end quickly. We can all admire Bernie and his purity, right up until the Republicans run an ad about how he's advocating for child killers and terrorists getting the right to vote. Really, we need not go there. Some people have lost their freedom due to heinous acts. They should also lose their right to vote at the same time.

I'm fully on board with people who've served their time having their voting rights restored. Lets not muck up the issue with a nonsensical extreme position.

Restoring the voting rights of people who served their term should be certainly on the platform. I’m not sure where it should fall in priorities, but I’m not sure putting it on the top five or even ten is a winning strategy. Win, then enact the proper reforms.

Regarding voting rights to all, it’s not a priority for me at all. I get it’s a ridiculously heavy lift but the idea of an “except for...” after a voting rights statement is too easily abused by the knuckledraggers. Disenfranchisement was used pretty effectively back in the day, and present day to be honest, to prevent minorities from voting.

It’s just too dangerous a weapon and I don’t trust us to wield it properly.

 

[burd]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

I don't understand how giving serial killers the right to vote became the cause celebre of the left, but it needs to end and end quickly. We can all admire Bernie and his purity, right up until the Republicans run an ad about how he's advocating for child killers and terrorists getting the right to vote. Really, we need not go there. Some people have lost their freedom due to heinous acts. They should also lose their right to vote at the same time.

I'm fully on board with people who've served their time having their voting rights restored. Lets not muck up the issue with a nonsensical extreme position.

It appears sometimes that Bernie wants to influence where the car goes but does not have a deep hunger to drive. And that may be a good thing. It's that hunger that brings out the monster.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

It’s almost like the vast majority of people in prison didn’t do any of those things :shock:Especially if they’re being counted in the census for representation purposes.

Also if we’re afraid of disingenuous right wing attacks just fold the ****ing party.

Sorry but we cant assume they are innocent just because we want to. if they were convicted and are locked up they lose the right to vote. Period. To say otherwise is ludicrous.

When they get out they should have the right restored that day but until then losing the right to vote is part of the punishment.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

Restoring the voting rights of people who served their term should be certainly on the platform. I’m not sure where it should fall in priorities, but I’m not sure putting it on the top five or even ten is a winning strategy. Win, then enact the proper reforms.

Regarding voting rights to all, it’s not a priority for me at all. I get it’s a ridiculously heavy lift but the idea of an “except for...” after a voting rights statement is too easily abused by the knuckledraggers. Disenfranchisement was used pretty effectively back in the day, and present day to be honest, to prevent minorities from voting.

It’s just too dangerous a weapon and I don’t trust us to wield it properly.

You are correct unless the "but for" is "but for the people who are locked up". They are being separated from the population their rights are limited.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

I don't understand how giving serial killers the right to vote became the cause celebre of the left, but it needs to end and end quickly. We can all admire Bernie and his purity, right up until the Republicans run an ad about how he's advocating for child killers and terrorists getting the right to vote. Really, we need not go there. Some people have lost their freedom due to heinous acts. They should also lose their right to vote at the same time.

I'm fully on board with people who've served their time having their voting rights restored. Lets not muck up the issue with a nonsensical extreme position.

Careful with your straw, scarecrow. It's flammable.

You realize plenty of people are in prison for crimes that are more hysterical than heinous, and many are there because they were wrong place, wrong color? 1.4 million of the 2.2 million prisoners in the US are there for non-violent offenses, including 400,000 for drug offenses.

<img src="https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/6429441/prison%20pie%202016.jpg" height="666">

If I understand you correctly we should defend rights unless it's possible for the other side, or you, to mislead people about it. Remind me not to name you to the ACLU.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

this will require an amendment to the bill of rights, no? that's how the federal goverment needs authorization to usurp state's rights. especially if a 'law' will mandate suffrage for state elections

 

[duper]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

I think there's something odd about saying that incarcerated felons shouldn't be allowed to vote, but should have their voting rights restored the day they get out of jail. I don't have data at hand to back up my thoughts here, but isn't a poor person quite a bit more likely to be charged with a crime than a wealthy person? And isn't that poor person less likely to be able to procure a good enough attorney to have a realistic chance of fighting the charges? And I don't know whether there even is data, but I've got a funny hunch that a poor person is less likely to get a suspended sentence than a wealthy person, as well as quite possibly less likely to be granted parole at a parole hearing. And really, if even one of those things is true, then stripping incarcerated prisoners of suffrage and restoring them the day they get out of prison seems like an unfairly greater burden on the poor.

Honestly, I'm not sure I have an opinion. I don't think I have a particular issue with stripping suffrage from prisoners, but I also think that if you do that, in order to be fair, it needs to apply to convicted felons serving parole and suspended sentences and similar as well.

And frankly, I'm not sure that I understand why allowing prisoners to vote is so crazy.

As for fines, taking away someone's suffrage because they can't pay a fine is some serious bs.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

As for fines, taking away someone's suffrage because they can't pay a fine is some serious bs.

can we do anyone in debt? carries debt?!?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: North Dakota is Still the Worst

I think there's something odd about saying that incarcerated felons shouldn't be allowed to vote, but should have their voting rights restored the day they get out of jail. I don't have data at hand to back up my thoughts here, but isn't a poor person quite a bit more likely to be charged with a crime than a wealthy person? And isn't that poor person less likely to be able to procure a good enough attorney to have a realistic chance of fighting the charges? And I don't know whether there even is data, but I've got a funny hunch that a poor person is less likely to get a suspended sentence than a wealthy person, as well as quite possibly less likely to be granted parole at a parole hearing. And really, if even one of those things is true, then stripping incarcerated prisoners of suffrage and restoring them the day they get out of prison seems like an unfairly greater burden on the poor.

Honestly, I'm not sure I have an opinion. I don't think I have a particular issue with stripping suffrage from prisoners, but I also think that if you do that, in order to be fair, it needs to apply to convicted felons serving parole and suspended sentences and similar as well.

And frankly, I'm not sure that I understand why allowing prisoners to vote is so crazy.

As for fines, taking away someone's suffrage because they can't pay a fine is some serious bs.

It’s almost like someone – I don’t know, maybe the rich – created a system whose sole intent was to disenfranchise poor and minorities. Just spitballing here.