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The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
- Thread starter dxmnkd316
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rufus
rock and roller
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
No, but you include a public option, and negotiate from there. The ACA is a right-leaning bill, its basic structure straight from the Heritage Group and Mitt Romney. That modern-day Republicans(and you) consider it liberal shows just how far to the right of center today's right wing is.
You don't handicap yourself by introducing a right-leaning piece of legislation, and let them pull it further right with amendments(and there were Republican amendments added to the original bill). You start left, and then compromise toward the middle.
Ryan's bill started even further right than the ACA, and then went even further trying to entice the Freedumb Caucus on board.
No, but you include a public option, and negotiate from there. The ACA is a right-leaning bill, its basic structure straight from the Heritage Group and Mitt Romney. That modern-day Republicans(and you) consider it liberal shows just how far to the right of center today's right wing is.
You don't handicap yourself by introducing a right-leaning piece of legislation, and let them pull it further right with amendments(and there were Republican amendments added to the original bill). You start left, and then compromise toward the middle.
Ryan's bill started even further right than the ACA, and then went even further trying to entice the Freedumb Caucus on board.
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
So.....a surcharge on the rich...forcing insurers to spend 80% of revenue on care...and have to cover people with pre-existing conditions...and expanding Medicaid....are right leaning, Heritage Foundation ideas???? Oooookaayyyyyyy then.
So.....a surcharge on the rich...forcing insurers to spend 80% of revenue on care...and have to cover people with pre-existing conditions...and expanding Medicaid....are right leaning, Heritage Foundation ideas???? Oooookaayyyyyyy then.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...5/ellen-qualls/aca-gop-health-care-plan-1993/
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
And that matters because, why? Seriously. Why are you so hung up on it? The liberals just got their *** kicked on national TV in November and you're worried about whether this bill is considered liberal or not? In the grand scheme of things it matters not.
As has been pointed out numerous times. The bill has some good things in it but it doesn't go far enough. Just like Dodd-Frank didn't go far enough. I'm as shocked as anyone it's staying intact but that's not a good thing right now as it is broken and everyone knows it's broken.
Meanwhile Bannon, Priebus, and Trump are dismantling every regulation they can get their hands on. And the HHS secretary (Tom Price) will be able to do the same with Obamacare. It's not a good thing.
And that matters because, why? Seriously. Why are you so hung up on it? The liberals just got their *** kicked on national TV in November and you're worried about whether this bill is considered liberal or not? In the grand scheme of things it matters not.
As has been pointed out numerous times. The bill has some good things in it but it doesn't go far enough. Just like Dodd-Frank didn't go far enough. I'm as shocked as anyone it's staying intact but that's not a good thing right now as it is broken and everyone knows it's broken.
Meanwhile Bannon, Priebus, and Trump are dismantling every regulation they can get their hands on. And the HHS secretary (Tom Price) will be able to do the same with Obamacare. It's not a good thing.
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
Because its a liberal legislative victory that will apparently endure. That's the point. Without the force of law, Bannon, Priebus, Trump etc will lose in court, like they have been already because you just can't ignore laws that you don't like. Much like Dodd-Frank. The problem with too many lefties out here is absolutism. If we didn't get single payer 8 years ago, it wasn't worth it. A completely absurd stance to take, but sadly one far too many Dems have adopted. If the other side is blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...and then our side is ALSO blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...can you not draw a straight line between that and depressed Dem voter turnout?
Celebrate victories when they happen Scoobs. Leave it to the knucks' to try to minimize the accomplishment. Really, they've got it covered.
Because its a liberal legislative victory that will apparently endure. That's the point. Without the force of law, Bannon, Priebus, Trump etc will lose in court, like they have been already because you just can't ignore laws that you don't like. Much like Dodd-Frank. The problem with too many lefties out here is absolutism. If we didn't get single payer 8 years ago, it wasn't worth it. A completely absurd stance to take, but sadly one far too many Dems have adopted. If the other side is blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...and then our side is ALSO blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...can you not draw a straight line between that and depressed Dem voter turnout?
Celebrate victories when they happen Scoobs. Leave it to the knucks' to try to minimize the accomplishment. Really, they've got it covered.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
HHS Secretary has a lot of power here. Victory at the time, yes, but enduring victory wasn't achieved. The Democrats were never able to fix and tweak the law to make it better. The party that wants to destroy the law got full power over everything.
Sorry, I'm not cheering here. I know many people got good things out of the law but I got the shaft. And celebrations are over as far as I'm concerned.
Because its a liberal legislative victory that will apparently endure. That's the point. Without the force of law, Bannon, Priebus, Trump etc will lose in court, like they have been already because you just can't ignore laws that you don't like. Much like Dodd-Frank. The problem with too many lefties out here is absolutism. If we didn't get single payer 8 years ago, it wasn't worth it. A completely absurd stance to take, but sadly one far too many Dems have adopted. If the other side is blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...and then our side is ALSO blasting all of Obama's accomplishments...can you not draw a straight line between that and depressed Dem voter turnout?
Celebrate victories when they happen Scoobs. Leave it to the knucks' to try to minimize the accomplishment. Really, they've got it covered.
HHS Secretary has a lot of power here. Victory at the time, yes, but enduring victory wasn't achieved. The Democrats were never able to fix and tweak the law to make it better. The party that wants to destroy the law got full power over everything.
Sorry, I'm not cheering here. I know many people got good things out of the law but I got the shaft. And celebrations are over as far as I'm concerned.
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
If it makes you feel better, consider this. Your goal of single payer got a lot closer. Americans clearly rejected a roll back of Medicaid expansion, one of the more unpopular proposals Ryan and team came up with. Furthermore, as a result of the ACA I've seen almost uniform agreement amongst Dems on the wisdom of a Medicare buy-in for those 50 and over. That's a tough proposal for Goopers to oppose since it directly benefits a core constituency of theirs.
If it makes you feel better, consider this. Your goal of single payer got a lot closer. Americans clearly rejected a roll back of Medicaid expansion, one of the more unpopular proposals Ryan and team came up with. Furthermore, as a result of the ACA I've seen almost uniform agreement amongst Dems on the wisdom of a Medicare buy-in for those 50 and over. That's a tough proposal for Goopers to oppose since it directly benefits a core constituency of theirs.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
Except nobody has.
The election is over, Rover. Get out of your head and get back in the fight.
Except nobody has.
The election is over, Rover. Get out of your head and get back in the fight.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
As soon as it became likely that Obamacare was on the chopping block, it got popular. It's +6 or so after being -10 to -15 over the past 7 years. Maybe it's because Paul Ryan is a Randian imbecile, though.
As soon as it became likely that Obamacare was on the chopping block, it got popular. It's +6 or so after being -10 to -15 over the past 7 years. Maybe it's because Paul Ryan is a Randian imbecile, though.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
Prior to 2 weeks ago, I doubt more than 5% of Republican voters understood anything about Obamacare other than "that n-gger did it!"
Trump in particular and this bunch of Republicans in general are great rabble rousers but incompetent to govern. I suspect they can't wait to stage their Grand Theft and then go back to the opposition where they can be irresponsible critics again.
Prior to 2 weeks ago, I doubt more than 5% of Republican voters understood anything about Obamacare other than "that n-gger did it!"
Trump in particular and this bunch of Republicans in general are great rabble rousers but incompetent to govern. I suspect they can't wait to stage their Grand Theft and then go back to the opposition where they can be irresponsible critics again.
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
No, the problems aren't. Dems have sat out the 2010, 2014, and 2016 elections. Don't you want to know why?
No, the problems aren't. Dems have sat out the 2010, 2014, and 2016 elections. Don't you want to know why?
You're thinking of the son Lincoln Chaffee, who was a republican but became a democrat.
No, the ACA is not a liberal bill. The only reason people think it is liberal is because the republicans have lurched to the extreme right. Obama went with something he thought could get some moderate republican support rather than go for something liberal like Medicare for all.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
That, and Lieberman basically had the ultimate say on the health insurance debate.
That, and Lieberman basically had the ultimate say on the health insurance debate.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
Merrick Garland, white courtesy telephone please.
Merrick Garland, white courtesy telephone please.
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
No, Obama went with something that could get moderate Dem support. Not moderate Republicans, who aside from the aforementioned Chaffee (who, again eventually became a Democrat and wasn't in the Senate IIRC in 2009) didn't exist. That's the part people struggle with. "Medicaid for all" = bill that doesn't pass. Then you have no Medicaid expansion, no insurers having to pay 80% of premiums towards healthcare, no set list of things that have to be covered, no higher surcharge on the very wealthy to pay for it all.
No, Obama went with something that could get moderate Dem support. Not moderate Republicans, who aside from the aforementioned Chaffee (who, again eventually became a Democrat and wasn't in the Senate IIRC in 2009) didn't exist. That's the part people struggle with. "Medicaid for all" = bill that doesn't pass. Then you have no Medicaid expansion, no insurers having to pay 80% of premiums towards healthcare, no set list of things that have to be covered, no higher surcharge on the very wealthy to pay for it all.
Wisko McBadgerton
Teaching you how to Bucky.
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
My Facebook says the Russians spiked the water in swing states and Flint is the result of them botching the cover-up.
Now you know!
My Facebook says the Russians spiked the water in swing states and Flint is the result of them botching the cover-up.
Now you know!
Re: The PPACA Thread Part IV - Repeal & Replace, or Something...
Obama tried hard to get Snowe to vote for the ACA, and even was willing to make some changes for her, but in the end she held the party line. Some republicans still don't forgive her for voting it out of committee. I don't think he wanted something that couldn't get any republican votes, but he probably should have known better since their #1 priority was to obstruct him.
Obama tried hard to get Snowe to vote for the ACA, and even was willing to make some changes for her, but in the end she held the party line. Some republicans still don't forgive her for voting it out of committee. I don't think he wanted something that couldn't get any republican votes, but he probably should have known better since their #1 priority was to obstruct him.
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