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The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

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Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Rover said:
I read the article and while I appreciate his perspective at the end of the day its stupid. No $h it most people aren't as productive in their 70's and they were in their 30's but there's something to be said for enjoying your leisure time after a lifetime of working until retirement age. Not everybody goes out Reagan style, and its interesting you bring him up since he was starting his second term when he turned 75! While not intentional, this guy didn't think about societies that operate on a "you're only useful if you're productive" basis.... :eek:
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I read about 1/3, and then decided life was too short to waste any more time on that guy's rambling, incoherent, inconsistent nonsense.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

LynahFan said:
I read about 1/3, and then decided life was too short to waste any more time on that guy's rambling, incoherent, inconsistent nonsense.
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The canonical review of Man, Economy, and State: A Treatise on Economic Principles.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
I was going to say Atlas Shrugged, but either one works.
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Nobody ever made it a third of the way through Atlas Shrugged. It's too pathetic, even for the zombies. Fountainhead, OTOH, is a good read for about the first half. She must have had that portion ghost-written while she was banging Greenspan.

Great catch, Al.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Annual post whining about insurance costs going up:

We just got our benefits package today and they are jacking up premiums by 12.5% on medical for my plan and increasing the dental (actual) deductible by 50%.

Which also leads me to my other rant about how much I hate the way dental insurance works.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

joecct said:
Who wants to live forever?
http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/09/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75/379329/

Interesting article. Some I do not agree with, but it is thought provoking.
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It also opens up some really uncomfortable corollary questions.

If "life after 75" is too challenging from a health standpoint to be worth living, what about children born with a genetic birth defect? They incur substantial health care costs as well. "Should" we not even bother to treat them either?

How far to we extend this reasoning? If anyone develops a chronic condition that cannot be cured but only can be managed, will those on-going costs become "too much" over time?


and of course, the biggest concern of all: just exactly who makes these decisions? some faceless back office bureaucrat buried deep in HHS headquarters? one of their cronies at the health insurance company?
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

FreshFish said:
It also opens up some really uncomfortable corollary questions.

If "life after 75" is too challenging from a health standpoint to be worth living, what about children born with a genetic birth defect? They incur substantial health care costs as well. "Should" we not even bother to treat them either?

How far to we extend this reasoning? If anyone develops a chronic condition that cannot be cured but only can be managed, will those on-going costs become "too much" over time?


and of course, the biggest concern of all: just exactly who makes these decisions? some faceless back office bureaucrat buried deep in HHS headquarters? one of their cronies at the health insurance company?
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Fish-You sure bring up some interesting points to ponder. I seem to remember reading about some former painter who became rather prominent in Europe during the 1930's and 1940's who had his own answer to those questions. "Life Unworthy of Life" or "lebensunwerten Lebens":eek:
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

dxmnkd316 said:
Which also leads me to my other rant about how much I hate the way dental insurance works.
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IMO all dental insurance is a scam. I've never found a dental plan with benefits to justify the premium.

I'm much happier with the dental savings plan(s) offered by many dentists nowadays...as well as some 3rd party vendors. Pay an annual subscription fee for a little over a C note...cuts the cost of every procedure by 40 to 50 percent.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

brookyone said:
IMO all dental insurance is a scam. I've never found a dental plan with benefits to justify the premium.

I'm much happier with the dental savings plan(s) offered by many dentists nowadays...as well as some 3rd party vendors. Pay an annual subscription fee for a little over a C note...cuts the cost of every procedure by 40 to 50 percent.
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It seems like every dentist out there finds ways to charge more than the maximum permitted by your plan.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
It seems like every dentist out there finds ways to charge more than the maximum permitted by your plan.
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Not mine. My dentist is great, I really like her. My semi-annual cleanings are 100% covered, and I've saved quite a lot on the one filling and the crown I had put in over the past couple years using my Delta Dental plan. From what you guys are posting, it looks like I'm in the minority, but I've benefitted greatly from my dental insuarnce since graduating from college - wisdom teeth extraction, crown, a few fillings, and the semi-annuals. I did have a dentist that tried to pilfer me, but after that I switched to my current lady.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

I've been lucky with my teeth so far - never had a cavity and my wisdom teeth are still in good shape. So the only work I've had done is cleanings, which means the dentist usually overcharges for the annual x-rays. Since those only happen once a year, I don't necessarily mind paying the $40 it typically amounts to. My cleanings are fully covered. However, I don't have any payroll deductions for my insurance either, so I don't really have a reason to look into other plans.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

brookyone said:
IMO all dental insurance is a scam. I've never found a dental plan with benefits to justify the premium.
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My experience is the opposite. Dental insurance is a must for my wife and I and pays for itself twice or more over every year.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

FreshFish said:
I finally found an accurate and easy-to-understand problem with the architecture of PPACA: the authors want everyone to have access to above-average healthcare while they also want everyone to pay below-average premiums.

It might be the case that in Lake Wobegon, everyone is above average, but when you have a wider population....
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Maybe if you only want to compare americans against one another. But, why shouldn't we be able to provide top quality care to all Americans at a lower than average cost when compared with the rest of the first world countries?
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

jerphisch said:
Maybe if you only want to compare americans against one another. But, why shouldn't we be able to provide top quality care to all Americans at a lower than average cost when compared with the rest of the first world countries?
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Same reason we can't compete on education or anything else on cost.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

jerphisch said:
Maybe if you only want to compare americans against one another. But, why shouldn't we be able to provide top quality care to all Americans at a lower than average cost when compared with the rest of the first world countries?
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What do you set as your bar for a qualitative measure? Our medical costs are often higher because we run so many more tests and take more images than other countries do. These tests and images all cost money. While they may be unnecessary in the final diagnosis, they tend to put the patient at ease during the process. Is putting the patient at ease added to the quality measurement? Or is it strictly the final outcome?

Another reason for our higher healthcare costs is because our government hasn't placed price ceilings on medical goods, especially drugs, the way other countries do. We end up paying more than we otherwise would for the drug because companies can't make their profits overseas, so they get them here. It's not a straight one-for-one comparison between countries' healthcare systems.
 
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

jerphisch said:
Maybe if you only want to compare americans against one another. But, why shouldn't we be able to provide top quality care to all Americans at a lower than average cost when compared with the rest of the first world countries?
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FF is making a false argument anyway. The goal is to improve the quality of care those on the bottom receive by reducing the cost to them. Doing that is straightforward -- you socialize costs so that the health care of those on the bottom is subsidized.

Cost control is a different problem, and Obamacare fails on it because it keeps the unlimited profit model of the old system. The obvious cost control measure is single payer NHS, which is what we should have done in the first place. Liberals incorrectly assumed there would be less resistance to the Heritage/conservative solution that Obama proposed because they thought opposition was conditioned on the facts of the plan, while in reality opposition was simply political identification. It would have been just as easy to have one jump to NHS. Instead we'll have to waste another 20-30 years of corporate welfare until we finally get there.
 
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