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The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
- Thread starter joecct
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Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
Hey if you're working at Wal-Mart for a living you've got enough problems!
I'm surprised Rover didn't post about Wal Mart
Hey if you're working at Wal-Mart for a living you've got enough problems!
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
and another reason for our so-called "higher" healthcare costs is the way we measure them compared to other countries. For example, if you were to include the cost of waiting in line, other countries' costs would be a lot higher than they appear.
finally, it annoys me no end that we don't separate out "discretionary" healthcare spending from "essential" healthcare spending. The absence of any kind of measurement along those lines also skews the statistics and makes any cross-border comparison unreliable if not invalid.
As income increases, people tend to spend an incremental additional amount on healthcare. Poor people don't get braces for their children, instead poor kids grow up with crooked teeth. As income increases, people will pay for orthodontia and their kids will grow up with straightened teeth. This incremental additional "cost" also brings with it incremental additional benefits, yet only the former appears in the statistics, not the latter.
You live in another country and have joint problems? Here, have some morphine! You live here and have joint problems? Here is a referral to a specialist.
and another reason for our so-called "higher" healthcare costs is the way we measure them compared to other countries. For example, if you were to include the cost of waiting in line, other countries' costs would be a lot higher than they appear.
finally, it annoys me no end that we don't separate out "discretionary" healthcare spending from "essential" healthcare spending. The absence of any kind of measurement along those lines also skews the statistics and makes any cross-border comparison unreliable if not invalid.
As income increases, people tend to spend an incremental additional amount on healthcare. Poor people don't get braces for their children, instead poor kids grow up with crooked teeth. As income increases, people will pay for orthodontia and their kids will grow up with straightened teeth. This incremental additional "cost" also brings with it incremental additional benefits, yet only the former appears in the statistics, not the latter.
You live in another country and have joint problems? Here, have some morphine! You live here and have joint problems? Here is a referral to a specialist.
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dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
I almost feel bad for Walmart. I mean, our costs went up 10-15% (I don't think we've cut anyone's benefits completely) as I'm sure many other F500 companies did. Not a word about them. Yet Walmart, a place absolutely known for paying pennies on the dollar for both labor and goods, gets absolutely raked over the coals for it.
I'm surprised Rover didn't post about Wal Mart
I almost feel bad for Walmart. I mean, our costs went up 10-15% (I don't think we've cut anyone's benefits completely) as I'm sure many other F500 companies did. Not a word about them. Yet Walmart, a place absolutely known for paying pennies on the dollar for both labor and goods, gets absolutely raked over the coals for it.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
And then there's the whole debacle where MnSure is placing people onto MedicAid who don't qualify. Yeah, there's nothing at all wrong with this system.
Channel 5 did a story on MnSure last night, debating Gov. Dayton's claimed raise of only 4.5% average rise in the cost of MnSure insurance plans, touting it as a greate success (even though the upfront stated goal was to drop insurance rates 25-30% over four years, which is not covered in the story). The governor's office came up with 4.5% by dropping PreferredOne from its calculation, the largest MnSure insurer because it's dropping its MnSure plans for the upcoming year. It had been the most popular plan this past year, with something like 29% of all MnSure insured, but said that it couldn't turn a profit next year and meet the requirements set forth by the law next year. Here's the link: http://kstp.com/news/stories/S3498865.shtml?cat=5
And then there's the whole debacle where MnSure is placing people onto MedicAid who don't qualify. Yeah, there's nothing at all wrong with this system.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
Well, considering how much I've doled out this year for insurance (increased over 100%) and the fact that (1) emergency room visit for about an hour for something relatively minor had an "emergency room fee of $850 someone is making a whole lot of money.
Blow the whole thing up and switch to single payer. Let the insurance companies melt away to nothingness.
Well, considering how much I've doled out this year for insurance (increased over 100%) and the fact that (1) emergency room visit for about an hour for something relatively minor had an "emergency room fee of $850 someone is making a whole lot of money.
Blow the whole thing up and switch to single payer. Let the insurance companies melt away to nothingness.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
I don't buy this. SOmething isn't adding up here. How could your insurance costs go up 100%?
I don't buy this. SOmething isn't adding up here. How could your insurance costs go up 100%?
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
I'm not lying.
Employer used to cover more. After the huge increase they increased my contribution. Thus, my costs went up 100%. The actual increase to the company was ~35% IIRC. Those of us with dependents got nailed hard.
I'm not lying.
Employer used to cover more. After the huge increase they increased my contribution. Thus, my costs went up 100%. The actual increase to the company was ~35% IIRC. Those of us with dependents got nailed hard.
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
Now it may seem counter to what I just said, but the Federal Health Benefits system does work. There are tons of providers, some nationally, some local, but I get a chance to switch plans with no problem once a year or when a significant event happens. For the most part, premiums are reasonable.
FWIW, I have Aetna Plan JN5.
Because any time the Federal Government steps in to run something, they invariably screw it up, even with the best of intentions.
Now it may seem counter to what I just said, but the Federal Health Benefits system does work. There are tons of providers, some nationally, some local, but I get a chance to switch plans with no problem once a year or when a significant event happens. For the most part, premiums are reasonable.
FWIW, I have Aetna Plan JN5.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
So, the devil may be in the details here.
Take my costs for the last few years:
I was on a PPO for literally my entire life up until this year*. I don't have the premiums for my parents or old job in front of me, but I remember them being expensive, in the range of $150-$200 a month. This basically got me office visits for a $25 copay, prescriptions were either covered 100%, $25 copay or the cost of the medicine (whichever was less). ER was a 10% copay or $100 minimum IIRC.
WHen I switched to my new job, there was a low annual deductible for medical costs where I paid 100%. After that, the plan covered 90%. Prescriptions had a separate deductible, again 90% after the deductible. The annual out-of-pocket maximum jump up by 150% in 2014 as they tried to push everyone off the PPO. Premiums went from $86 to $95 between 2012 and 2014. I ran the numbers and decided to go with the high deductible plan where I paid the first $1,300 of prescriptions and medical. After that the plan covers 90% up to an annual max of around $3,200. But my premiums were cut 25% by joining the HD plan plus the company kicked in a few hundred to our HSA to help out.
So premiums+prescriptions+medical costs were going up a couple hundred bucks a year. Then when I switched to the HD plan, the total bottom line cost went down by $450. Part of that was I also figured in tax benefits.
If I really wanted to figure out the change in costs, I would also factor in that I pay for ALL of my medical care on my credit card if I can since I get 2% cash back. I am then reimbursed for the full cost of my care out of my HSA. So my paycheck costs went from about $1,100 a year to $1,800 this year and about $1,900 next year. I also have to front all of my prescription and medical costs, another $1,500 to $2,000 but I'll be getting back all of my HSA contributions and tax benefits (about $1,800 of that).
* With the same insurance company no less (even jumping from my parents plan to my old job and then into my new job, so kind of cool).
So, the devil may be in the details here.
Take my costs for the last few years:
I was on a PPO for literally my entire life up until this year*. I don't have the premiums for my parents or old job in front of me, but I remember them being expensive, in the range of $150-$200 a month. This basically got me office visits for a $25 copay, prescriptions were either covered 100%, $25 copay or the cost of the medicine (whichever was less). ER was a 10% copay or $100 minimum IIRC.
WHen I switched to my new job, there was a low annual deductible for medical costs where I paid 100%. After that, the plan covered 90%. Prescriptions had a separate deductible, again 90% after the deductible. The annual out-of-pocket maximum jump up by 150% in 2014 as they tried to push everyone off the PPO. Premiums went from $86 to $95 between 2012 and 2014. I ran the numbers and decided to go with the high deductible plan where I paid the first $1,300 of prescriptions and medical. After that the plan covers 90% up to an annual max of around $3,200. But my premiums were cut 25% by joining the HD plan plus the company kicked in a few hundred to our HSA to help out.
So premiums+prescriptions+medical costs were going up a couple hundred bucks a year. Then when I switched to the HD plan, the total bottom line cost went down by $450. Part of that was I also figured in tax benefits.
If I really wanted to figure out the change in costs, I would also factor in that I pay for ALL of my medical care on my credit card if I can since I get 2% cash back. I am then reimbursed for the full cost of my care out of my HSA. So my paycheck costs went from about $1,100 a year to $1,800 this year and about $1,900 next year. I also have to front all of my prescription and medical costs, another $1,500 to $2,000 but I'll be getting back all of my HSA contributions and tax benefits (about $1,800 of that).
* With the same insurance company no less (even jumping from my parents plan to my old job and then into my new job, so kind of cool).
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
Source?
(Never mind, I know. Club for Growth.)
Let's play dueling thought-terminating cliches -- any time private corporations run something, they invariably cut corners to reduce expenses and conspire to form monopolies and cost the rest of us in quality of service and their own workers a living wage, if not their lives. Even with the best of intentions.
Hey, this is fun.
Source?
(Never mind, I know. Club for Growth.)
Let's play dueling thought-terminating cliches -- any time private corporations run something, they invariably cut corners to reduce expenses and conspire to form monopolies and cost the rest of us in quality of service and their own workers a living wage, if not their lives. Even with the best of intentions.
Hey, this is fun.
Common Core? PPACA? FEMA?
And the hackneyed, "I'm from the government and here to help. "
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
And apparently the CDC, health care worker in Texas now has Ebola. Oh we can handle that pesky little disease. First it was it couldn't be contracted thru the air, now its well maybe it can.
And apparently the CDC, health care worker in Texas now has Ebola. Oh we can handle that pesky little disease. First it was it couldn't be contracted thru the air, now its well maybe it can.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
2 people out of 350 million. Everyone panic!
You should probably worry more about the flu, the enterovirus, or even HIV at this point.
2 people out of 350 million. Everyone panic!
You should probably worry more about the flu, the enterovirus, or even HIV at this point.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
Nah, walrus obviously knows more than actual doctors...I mean he probably saw the movie Outbreak so he knows!
Nah, walrus obviously knows more than actual doctors...I mean he probably saw the movie Outbreak so he knows!
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
How many patients in the US have had Ebola? 4? out of that 4 one has already infected a caregiver.
How many patients in the US have had Ebola? 4? out of that 4 one has already infected a caregiver.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
"a caregiver" as in one. And those are the people directly handling his bodily fluids.
You are literally more likely to be struck by lightning twice than to get ebola in this country.
Would you care to wager whether more people in the USA die from the flu than ebola this winter?
"a caregiver" as in one. And those are the people directly handling his bodily fluids.
You are literally more likely to be struck by lightning twice than to get ebola in this country.
Would you care to wager whether more people in the USA die from the flu than ebola this winter?
No. If the genie escapes the bottle, we're in a world of hurt.
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!
What does that have to do with the CDC being clueless? , They said we(the US medical profession) were ready and in 4 cases one person has already contracted Ebola. They said it wasn't spread in the air and now they are saying it is. I didn't say I was going to get it.
What does that have to do with the CDC being clueless? , They said we(the US medical profession) were ready and in 4 cases one person has already contracted Ebola. They said it wasn't spread in the air and now they are saying it is. I didn't say I was going to get it.
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