The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

the WCHA helped save BSU, and yes the CCHA was wrong to reject UAH. BGSU, Miami and OSU are closer to Huntsville than UNO or NMU. I think the WCHA probably will admit UAH if BGSU accepts their invitation. As far as I know, UAH hasn't even tried to apply to the WCHA ever.

Excellent. I am genuinely glad to see two WCHA'ers stand up and say "yes, take UAH now." I'll admit, I didn't expect that.

Talk about like-mindedness... I lay you odds Minnesota, Wisconsin, UND, DU, probably CC, probably UNO... don't know about Duluth or St. Cloud... all would've voted against accepting UAH. Maybe the culture has changed/diverged enough that it is time to part ways? Dunno...

Just talking to myself here... we haven't actually talked about the internal behind-the-scenes conference leadership dynamic much. I wonder how much of a factor the WCHA saving BSU was. UND and DU might not have wanted to be in a conference with 3 (or 4, Duluth's place is a mystery to me) Minnesota small-school votes, setting them up for lots of other program-saving, and no "like-minded" Gopher program to offset/manage them. Just speculating...

 

[Pablo]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Umm, "yourself"? I am a DU grad. I am glad you think we have a strong law program though, I am flattered. I am not sure the legal community necessarily agrees, but that's a different discussion altogether.

CC will have a program as long as they decide to subsidize it, and it will fold the day they decide not to. It's not a moneymaker. I am sure the NCHC conference agreement will be a little more concrete than a vague reference to a "commitment to hockey" - they will force CC to memorialize it.

Ha ha, you were talking like a CC grad. See what happens when I jump into the middle of argument? I won't get into an argument on the law school here, but trust me, I am right. In the meantime, stop talking like a Tiger! There is no way that a DU fan should ever be confused for a CC fan! It's unnatural and wrong.

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Ha ha, you were talking like a CC grad. See what happens when I jump into the middle of argument? I won't get into an argument on the law school here, but trust me, I am right. In the meantime, stop talking like a Tiger! There is no way that a DU fan should ever be confused for a CC fan! It's unnatural and wrong.

Except he's a CC fan.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Ha ha, you were talking like a CC grad. See what happens when I jump into the middle of argument? I won't get into an argument on the law school here, but trust me, I am right. In the meantime, stop talking like a Tiger! There is no way that a DU fan should ever be confused for a CC fan! It's unnatural and wrong.

You a DU law grad?

I am a CC fan - grew up in the Springs (in a Gopher family, mind you). Went to DU. Maintained my loyalty to CC. Which means everybody hates me, but everybody loves me.

 

[Pablo]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You a DU law grad?

I am a CC fan - grew up in the Springs (in a Gopher family, mind you). Went to DU. Maintained my loyalty to CC. Which means everybody hates me, but everybody loves me.

Ha ha, my cover is blown. Yes, I am. Quick answer: DU law's reputation struggled a bit when they had some years of low bar passage rates, churning out too many graduates. The bar passage rates have been corrected with flying colors recently, and the school has a solid rep regionally. There is certainly room for improvement, but it's happening with the school's recently announced plan to decrease class sizes, raise admission standards even further, focus their efforts on five specialized areas of law, etc.

Sounds like you're in a strange boat, as a CC fan who attended DU. I'm from the Springs, too. But I like to think I made the right decision in attending DU as an undergrad.

As to hockey talk: I can sympathize with Shirtless Guy's point that MTU's rich history deserves a lot of respect....but I can see your point that this isn't a charity, and that schools need to look out for themselves. I'll tread the middle ground here, and allow you guys to continue the fireworks.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Ha ha, my cover is blown. Yes, I am. Quick answer: DU law's reputation struggled a bit when they had some years of low bar passage rates, churning out too many graduates. The bar passage rates have been corrected with flying colors recently, and the school has a solid rep regionally. There is certainly room for improvement, but it's happening with the school's recently announced plan to decrease class sizes, raise admission standards even further, focus their efforts on five specialized areas of law, etc.

Sounds like you're in a strange boat, as a CC fan who attended DU. I'm from the Springs, too. But I like to think I made the right decision in attending DU as an undergrad.

As to hockey talk: I can sympathize with Shirtless Guy's point that MTU's rich history deserves a lot of respect....but I can see your point that this isn't a charity, and that schools need to look out for themselves. I'll tread the middle ground here, and allow you guys to continue the fireworks.

Also a DU law grad. PM me sometime.

Yes, I'll refrain from tarnishing the value of my expensive piece of paper publicly. I too am very glad to see smaller entering classes, higher admissions standards, etc. There's just not a market out there for a JD mill in Denver. Not to mention, there are plenty of exceptional applicants these days, we don't have to accept anybody on-the-fence anymore.

I need to go be productive, stop the fireworks for one day. In the real world my opinion treads the middle ground too. But somebody has to be the devil's advocate.

 

[MavsFan]

We also discussed there being other options for keeping your in-state rivals on the schedule.

Non-conference games are not the same (see Anchorage and Fairbanks and how happy they've been with that "option")and any tourney will likely be in the Twin Cities, more home games for the Gophers. They won't be coming to Mankato.

The only other loss you can point to is not getting North Dakota. You said the Colorado teams weren't big attendance draws to begin with. And you said that playing Minnesota schools was in the works. Nothing there tells me that the end of the Mankato hockey program is imminent.

I said exactly none of those things. In fact, the Denver series is a pretty popular draw. You know exactly nothing about Mankato's situation. Your answer to everything is to say you don't accept the argument and then return to saying that no one has answered your questions. In reality, no one can answer your questions to your satisfaction, so again I say why don't you just drop it and quit trying to convince us that we'll be just fine?

 

[bronconick]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Non-conference games are not the same (see Anchorage and Fairbanks and how happy they've been with that "option")and any tourney will likely be in the Twin Cities, more home games for the Gophers. They won't be coming to Mankato.

I said exactly none of those things. In fact, the Denver series is a pretty popular draw. You know exactly nothing about Mankato's situation. Your answer to everything is to say you don't accept the argument and then return to saying that no one has answered your questions. In reality, no one can answer your questions to your satisfaction, so again I say why don't you just drop it and quit trying to convince us that we'll be just fine?

One thing I can't wrap my head around is that Moorhead thinks they can raise $37 million to create a team to join the very conference that Mankato fans on here are almost entirely sure will kill their already running program. Are the two locations *that* far apart on their appetite for hockey?

 

[MavsFan]

One thing I can't wrap my head around is that Moorhead thinks they can raise $37 million to create a team to join the very conference that Mankato fans on here are almost entirely sure will kill their already running program. Are the two locations *that* far apart on their appetite for hockey?

I couldn't tell you. I don't know anything about Moorhead.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Non-conference games are not the same (see Anchorage and Fairbanks and how happy they've been with that "option")and any tourney will likely be in the Twin Cities, more home games for the Gophers. They won't be coming to Mankato.

I said exactly none of those things. In fact, the Denver series is a pretty popular draw. You know exactly nothing about Mankato's situation. Your answer to everything is to say you don't accept the argument and then return to saying that no one has answered your questions. In reality, no one can answer your questions to your satisfaction, so again I say why don't you just drop it and quit trying to convince us that we'll be just fine?

Somebody in Minnesota said that, it might not have been you. It might have been a Bemidji poster.

Have you been proactive? Have you called your state rep/state college board member to encourage them to demand regular series scheduling on a rotating basis with in-state schools, at least the ones not in the UofMN system? Don't act all helpless until you've gone through all your options.

Maybe you won't be fine. But rather than stand and proclaim the end of the world, why don't you try and do something about it? You're not entitled to games against UND and DU, sorry. Time to look for alternatives. You're in Minnesota, for crying out loud. The State of Hockey. If a program folds there, it means you haven't been terribly creative in looking after your own in-state greater good. It's an uphill battle, for sure. (EDIT: Can I mirror the question about Moorhead - you should try and figure out how they differ from Mankato and from Bemidji. If they are optimistic, maybe try and learn from them - or if you are correct, educate them before they make a $37m mistake).

To show my empathy, would it help you guys if I draft a letter for you? I am pretty familiar with the methods Baylor and the other small Texas schools have tried to use to pressure the Austin state house to protect them, I could probably come up with something. Would that convince you I'm not the devil?

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

One thing I can't wrap my head around is that Moorhead thinks they can raise $37 million to create a team to join the very conference that Mankato fans on here are almost entirely sure will kill their already running program. Are the two locations *that* far apart on their appetite for hockey?

Yes. Moorhead area is north of the TC and is a great market on the other hand Mankato being located in the southern part of the state is still an area of growth for hockey.

 

[TheEagle]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Moorhead supports youth and high school hockey very well, but a division I college hockey program may be a different story. Moorhead (without Fargo) isn't all that different than St. Cloud, Duluth, and a lot of other towns in Minnesota. Theoretically, Fargo could provide a big boost to the program. However, except for NDSU grads that aren't from North Dakota, most folks in Fargo support UND hockey. I just don't see a big boost being provided by Fargo. That being said, I hope Moorhead adds college hockey and I will root for them to do well--just like I root for Bemidji State to do well.

I don't mind SCSU in the conference. Obviously, any conference would rather have Notre Dame, but SCSU is a decent fallback plan from UND's perspective. Good rivalry, close, good attendance. I wish the WCHA had remained (with Minnesota and Wisconsin), but that ship has sailed. The NCHC will be a good conference with most teams extremely dedicated to college hockey. I don't look at Nebraska-Omaha's or Western Michigan's historical results and think they don't belong. Those schools have dedicated themselves to hockey, and there are good arguments for all of the schools. It will be a good conference. I'm not under the illusion that some big TV deal is out there, but this conference is more intriguing to me than the WCHA sans Minnesota and Wisconsin.

As far as the Big Ten, I don't blame them for starting hockey. The Big Ten conference will be good, but I don't think it will provide a huge boost to the likes of Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan that a lot of people think. Minnesota and Michigan already have advantages that most other programs don't. They'll continue to be two of the marquee programs in college hockey. Wisconsin and Michigan State will probably continue to be solid, but have their highs and lows. Penn State and Ohio State will probably struggle.

I'm kind of excited by all three new conferences. The WCHA because it makes more geographical sense than the other "western" conferences. There should be some good rivalries in that league.

As for the NCHC, seven of the teams made the playoffs last year. Five of the teams are ranked in the preseason top 8. Six of the eight teams were ranked in the top 10 in attendance last year. Some of those teams haven't been historically good (Miami, Nebraska-Omaha, Western Michigan), but they also didn't dedicate themselves to college hockey like they do now.

My view:
UND - marquee college hockey program. Ranked 2nd in attendance last year.
Denver - marquee program. Ranked 7th in attendance last year. Major market with NHL rink.
Colorado College - solid program. Ranked 6th in attendance last year. Rivalry with CC is **** good.
Miami - becoming a very good program with two Frozen Fours in the last three years.
Nebraska-Omaha - it's not just Dean Blais that makes them intriguing. They are dedicated to college hockey. They have a nice rink and are centrally located. Good sized market in the heart of USHL country. Ranked 5th in attendance last year.
St. Cloud State - solid program. Seven tourney appearances in 12 years. Rivals with UND. Ranked 10th in attendance last year.
Minnesota-Duluth - Defending champs. Rivals with UND. Ranked 9th in attendance last year.
Western Michigan - historically, not good, but on the rise. Good sized market. Dedicated to college hockey. Large alumni base.

It would be nice if Western Michigan and Miami upgraded their rink size. Their rink capacities don't fit with the other programs in the NCHC.

I feel bad for Bemidji State. I've looked to them like a kid brother--rooting for them to do well. Perhaps they and Michigan Tech will be able to compete for an NCAA berth on an annual basis. I think the new WCHA is still better than where Bemidji State was at a few years ago, and I'm sure UND will continue to visit their rink. I hope that helps them succeed (even if it's a small boost). I want them to succeed.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I think we did what's best for us, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. That's not being a jerk. Nor were the schools who formed the NCHC 'jerks'. They don't owe the other schools anything.

Or the WCHA for that matter as they left without a penalty. But they were sure quick to tack on exorbitant early departure fees (10% of the conference operating budget plus an assessment fee!) for every team who signs on until 2018. First order of NCHC business, cover our *** and make it difficult for any school to do to us what we did to the WCHA.

This presents an interesting twist for Notre Dame's consideration as a member of the NCHC too. Although college football realignment theories may be temporarily on the decline, they will inevitably rise again in the next off season. Delaney's policy has thus far been all sports or nothing as an entry requirement for the B1G. If ND does sign on with the NCHC for a 5 year deal and then they determine they need a football conference in the B1G next year...say goodbye to Notre Dame. Personally, I hope ND shocks the world and goes independent in hockey.

St. Cloud State will pay an NCHC entrance fee of $83,630, according to North Dakota athletic director Brian Faison, who represented the NCHC at Thursday’s news conference.

According to the letter of agreement that St. Cloud State signed to join the NCHC, the university agrees to be a member until at least June 30, 2018. To exit the conference, a member would have to pay its annual assessment fee plus a fee equal to 10 percent of that year’s NCHC operating budget, Faison said.

There is no fee to leave the WCHA as long as a member gives at least a one-year notice. Before St. Cloud State’s invitation to join the NCHC, the WCHA discussed imposing a penalty on teams that leave the WCHA, Potter said. One proposal put that fee as high as six figures, he said.

That penalty wasn’t adopted, Potter said, although the WCHA is considering imposing a fee on teams that leave the conference after the 2012-2013 season.

 

[dggoddard]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Personally, I hope ND shocks the world and goes independent in hockey.

They won't and you'll be wrong again.

CC Freedom Blogger says that Notre Dame and probably Bowling Green will join the NCHC within six days.

Supposedly BG has been been given an extension by the WCHA so they can wait on ND's decision.

I think Notre Dame enjoys teasing the Rust Belt Conference errr....I mean the B1G.

http://cchockey.freedomblogging.com/2011/09/22/st-cloud-state-wmu-will-join-nchc/24813/
"Notre Dame has an open invite from the NCHC and media reports have said the Irish will join sometime next week. The extension also raises the possibility that BGSU could approach the NCHC about becoming the league’s 10th team."

 

[bronconick]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Yes. Moorhead area is north of the TC and is a great market on the other hand Mankato being located in the southern part of the state is still an area of growth for hockey.

So...Moorhead is Winnipeg, and Mankato is Atlanta, right down to the bad ownership/administration in not caring about whether the team is competitive?

 

[4four4]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

As far as the Big Ten, I don't blame them for starting hockey. The Big Ten conference will be good, but I don't think it will provide a huge boost to the likes of Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan that a lot of people think. Minnesota and Michigan already have advantages that most other programs don't. They'll continue to be two of the marquee programs in college hockey. Wisconsin and Michigan State will probably continue to be solid, but have their highs and lows. Penn State and Ohio State will probably struggle.

I don't think people are under the illusion of a huge boost for the Big Ten starting up its own conference. IMO, the BTN decided it needed programing and hockey was and is a logical fit. Many of us fully understand hockey has not been able to garner the ratings other sports but the potential for the Big Ten to find viewers across North America is worth its wait in gold. Now every kid in Canada and the United States will be able to tune into every Big Ten conference game and right now no other conference will be able to say that. If a recruit in B.C. decides to play for OSU or PSU their parents will be able to tune into the game. That is a advantage. Oh, sure we have heard the new conference say they will be getting a tv deal but my guess is no. Maybe a tv deal with every conference in the country but not soley themselves with a deal. I agree the new conference will do well out of the gate what I see the Big Ten is looking for the long term effect on their conference. Their philosophy has always been it is not a race but a marathon and that is why ten years from now the depth of the Big Ten will be the best hockey in the country.

 

[MUhawks628]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

If a recruit in B.C. decides to play for OSU or PSU their parents will be able to tune into the game. That is a advantage.

Serious question. They have the BTN in Canada?

 

[goldy_331]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Which means everybody hates me, but everybody loves me.

Well, you're half right anyway.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

They won't and you'll be wrong again.

CC Freedom Blogger says that Notre Dame and probably Bowling Green will join the NCHC within six days.

Supposedly BG has been been given an extension by the WCHA so they can wait on ND's decision.

I think Notre Dame enjoys teasing the Rust Belt Conference errr....I mean the B1G.

And who is CC Freedom Blogger and where did he get his info? So the extension to BGSU is so they can wait to see what ND does? Apparently they haven't read CC Freedom Blogger's blog yet then.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Inviting BGSU to the NCHC makes them look like they are trying to do whats right for college hockey. Making sure the last CCHA team has a conference to go to. Such humanitarians!