The new Super League is going down the tubes.

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

The fact that you don't care about any of the reason the rest of us are upset makes you a jerk about it. The fact that every time you ask for more reasons and we give them to you, you say you don't care. That makes you a jerk. Your favorite team is lucky to have such a loyal partner in DU. A D3 team has no place among a bunch of "like minded" institutions. And yet you sit here and tell us to deal with it when in reality your favorite team is lucky as hell to be brought along for the ride because of your relationship with one of the creators (DU). The fact that you just don't give a **** that other programs might fold up shop because you don't like having to watch the leftovers in Colorado makes you a jerk. You are living in a little bubble and some day CC will be left behind and when that happens, no one will be around to help your favorite program because your favorite program and some other teams **** on the rest of the western schools back in 2011.

You're over-simplying. For one, there's a lot of assumption going on there about teams folding. Nobody knows that for sure, and I still haven't heard any evidence that it is more likely post-NCHC than pre-NCHC. On that map, your farthest opponent is Bowling Green (assuming they come in) - 614 miles. That's about the distance from here to Omaha, so you should be able to make ends meet.

You also misunderstand the CC-DU relationship. CC is a very wealthy school, as I mentioned before. It has an endowment 50% larger than DU's, and more than 6-times Michigan Tech's. CC doesn't need DU to survive - as long as CC wants to have a D-1 program, it will have one, regardless of conference affiliation. Luck has nothing to do with it. And CC (as much as it pains me to say) is the academic heavyweight of Front Range private schools. DU and CC are a package deal, but I don't think one is more dependent on the other. CC (and probably DU) survive for the reasons a lot of the ECAC schools survive, not because they bring in huge revenues from playing marquee schools. It's a different formula altogether.

I do care about why you are all upset. But I also wouldn't change it. A little selfish, maybe, but I don't think that makes me a jerk. It's just a fact of doing what's best for us - which, incidentally, is what we all do every time we vote, make a decision, debate tax rates, policies, etc. Most of those decisions hurt somebody. That is unfortunate, and I am sorry for it, and I'd even like to help you mitigate the damage some, but I would not make a different decision.

And I think the time is past for you guys to accept it and start looking for positives, that's all.

I'll sleep at night knowing that my team has more NCAA Championships than 75% of the NCHC and that it will remain that way for the foreseeable future. Also, that all of the championships in the future WCHA will have come post-1957, something that the CC can't claim.

Absolutely. And that's something you guys should be proud of, tout, and build upon. Yet one more reason why this realignment is not the end of the world for anybody.

For the 50th time, I am not here claiming this is going to be end-all be-all of elite hockey, a super-conference, etc. That's the Big 10. Just that it's a better mix for us.

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You also misunderstand the CC-DU relationship. CC is a very wealthy school, as I mentioned before. It has an endowment 50% larger than DU's, and more than 6-times Michigan Tech's. CC doesn't need DU to survive - as long as CC wants to have a D-1 program, it will have one, regardless of conference affiliation. Luck has nothing to do with it. And CC (as much as it pains me to say) is the academic heavyweight of Front Range private schools. DU and CC are a package deal, but I don't think one is more dependent on the other. CC (and probably DU) survive for the reasons a lot of the ECAC schools survive, not because they bring in huge revenues from playing marquee schools. It's a different formula altogether.

Endowment is just as valuable as how much money flows through an university for research and development. Michigan Tech is well known for it's ability to produce the money from the research grants and funding from private and public sources.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I was rolling on the floor laughing after reading that. It think you might have some serious issues dude.

We didn't beat them or anything... Really? What do you call your posts for the last two days? That's the part I'm taking issue with. The "beating."

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not some kind of super senitive nice guy or anything. This is just a senstive issue for a lot of people and you need to recognize that. Also, I think CC fans and Tech fans will remain friends after the divorce. Even if it's just for the benefit of their children.

Haha. Do it for the children.

But you think I am the one doing the beating? I am the one getting beaten on. There's an 1,800 post thread here devoted to beating on the NCHC. A little defense of a perfectly rational move, and I am the bad guy?

I don't believe emotion and reason and mutually exclusive. I understand that it is sensitive and emotional for a lot of people. It doesn't mean I can't expect some understanding of why, and it doesn't mean I can't object to demonizing. I don't think DU or UND are evil, greedy, or any of the other insults that have been tossed their way, just because their self-interested decision isn't the best decision for everybody else.

I think you feel a little guilty about the NCHC, which is why you are concerning about understanding and sensitivity. I don't feel guilty. I feel empathy, but not guilt. Which is why I have less patience for the tantrums and the demonizing than you do. Because in the end, I still believe we did the right thing.

 

[MavsFan]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

...there's a lot of assumption going on there about teams folding. Nobody knows that for sure, and I still haven't heard any evidence that it is more likely post-NCHC than pre-NCHC.

Just another example of you not accepting evidence that you don't agree with and then saying that nobody has given you any. That's what's ****ing everybody off. Why don't you just drop it, and quit trying to convince those of us on the Island of Misfit Toys that we'll be just fine. We're being left in a de facto Division II league that a huge number of fans are simply not going to give a **** about. You're happy because you're getting rid of a couple of series against schools you don't care to see. We'll be looking at a schedule that's almost entirely made up of schools we don't care to see. Tech is the only one of the Michigan schools I even know anything about.

When attendance drops to a certain point, programs WILL fold up their tent. And that's a fact.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Endowment is just as valuable as how much money flows through an university for research and development. Michigan Tech is well known for it's ability to produce the money from the research grants and funding from private and public sources.

That's just not true. Most research money is earmarked. Parts of endowments may be restricted, but oftentimes they are not. And even if they are, that money can and does go to a lot of different purposes, relieves financial pressure on a university overall, and is generally indicative of the financial support a school receives from a community/alumni base. It may not flow directly from donor to athletics, but it's no secret that one of the big purposes of collegiate athletics is to boost giving. A hockey program can (and does) run in the red for a very, very long time is the university has other funding sources and is committed to keeping it around.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Just another example of you not accepting evidence that you don't agree with and then saying that nobody has given you any. That's what's ****ing everybody off. Why don't you just drop it, and quit trying to convince those of us on the Island of Misfit Toys that we'll be just fine. We're being left in a de facto Division II league that a huge number of fans are simply not going to give a **** about. You're happy because you're getting rid of a couple of series against schools you don't care to see. We'll be looking at a schedule that's almost entirely made up of schools we don't care to see. Tech is the only one of the Michigan schools I even know anything about.

When attendance drops to a certain point, programs WILL fold up their tent. And that's a fact.

I have said from the beginning that the two remaining Minnesota schools are on the losing end. We also discussed there being other options for keeping your in-state rivals on the schedule. If I remember correctly, there were plans in the works to make sure this happens.

The only other loss you can point to is not getting North Dakota. You said the Colorado teams weren't big attendance draws to begin with. And you said that playing Minnesota schools was in the works. Nothing there tells me that the end of the Mankato hockey program is imminent.

Like I asked yesterday, if it's that bad, where's the letter to the Governor? Where's the popular uproar (other than on here)?

Minnesota/Wisconsin are a different issue, and not the NCHC's fault.

I don't know Minnesota law, but it looks like the 'Minnesota State Colleges and Universities System' has a single elected board. Have you called your board representative? At least see if you can get them to intervene to keep SCSU in the WCHA? Just curious.

I can't care more about your well-being than you do. If you're not willing to do anything, why should any other school feel bad about making a decision they perceive to be good for them?

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You're over-simplying. For one, there's a lot of assumption going on there about teams folding. Nobody knows that for sure, and I still haven't heard any evidence that it is more likely post-NCHC than pre-NCHC. On that map, your farthest opponent is Bowling Green (assuming they come in) - 614 miles. That's about the distance from here to Omaha, so you should be able to make ends meet.

You also misunderstand the CC-DU relationship. CC is a very wealthy school, as I mentioned before. It has an endowment 50% larger than DU's, and more than 6-times Michigan Tech's. CC doesn't need DU to survive - as long as CC wants to have a D-1 program, it will have one, regardless of conference affiliation. Luck has nothing to do with it. And CC (as much as it pains me to say) is the academic heavyweight of Front Range private schools. DU and CC are a package deal, but I don't think one is more dependent on the other. CC (and probably DU) survive for the reasons a lot of the ECAC schools survive, not because they bring in huge revenues from playing marquee schools. It's a different formula altogether.

I do care about why you are all upset. But I also wouldn't change it. A little selfish, maybe, but I don't think that makes me a jerk. It's just a fact of doing what's best for us - which, incidentally, is what we all do every time we vote, make a decision, debate tax rates, policies, etc. Most of those decisions hurt somebody. That is unfortunate, and I am sorry for it, and I'd even like to help you mitigate the damage some, but I would not make a different decision.

And I think the time is past for you guys to accept it and start looking for positives, that's all.

Every time I bring up a reason your response post says "I don't care" and now you're trying to say you do care? That's bull****, plain and simple. You obviously don't care or your attitude would be different. Obviously you are happy with how things turned out for DU and CC. That honestly is fine...but your complete indifference to the fact that all of those left behind are most likely in a worse position today than they were in June sickens me.

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

That's just not true. Most research money is earmarked. Parts of endowments may be restricted, but oftentimes they are not. And even if they are, that money can and does go to a lot of different purposes, relieves financial pressure on a university overall, and is generally indicative of the financial support a school receives from a community/alumni base. It may not flow directly from donor to athletics, but it's no secret that one of the big purposes of collegiate athletics is to boost giving. A hockey program can (and does) run in the red for a very, very long time is the university has other funding sources and is committed to keeping it around.

Much of the purpose of an endowment is to improve facilities and faculty, which happens to be what research money does as well.

 

[Osorojo]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

A simple difference of opinion on this site regularly results in name-calling, personal attacks, and character defamation. These are not the actions of serious adults, and these reactions shame the attackers and the group they claim to represent. USCHO (and the rest of our country) would profit from fewer slurs and more reason and respect. If you are unable to debunk the message don't shoot the messenger.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Every time I bring up a reason your response post says "I don't care" and now you're trying to say you do care? That's bull****, plain and simple. You obviously don't care or your attitude would be different. Obviously you are happy with how things turned out for DU and CC. That honestly is fine...but your complete indifference to the fact that all of those left behind are most likely in a worse position today than they were in June sickens me.

I care... in the sense that I feel a little bad. Empathy.

I don't care enough to make a different decision. I won't lose any sleep over it.

And it's hard to express much caring in the face of people attacking you, calling you evil, etc.

I have said time and again that I don't wish anybody ill will, and I want you to survive... I'm just not willing to make sacrifices - I don't care that much. My own interests (or my own school's interests) have to come first.

That make sense? I think I've been pretty consistent. There are degrees of caring - it's not all or nothing.


Sort of like reforming entitlements. I care that there will be people harmed. But I would still do it, because I think it's better in the long run (and better for me). I can't carry all of the world's woes on my own shoulders.

Have you ever voted? Because surely something you voted for/against wasn't great for everybody out there.

You support the Iraq war? If you did, you were responsible for a lot of deaths. If you didn't, well, your inaction would've resulted in a lot of deaths too. I have no doubt, however, that either way, you "cared"... Not everybody can win all the time, though. And I do feel bad about that, I am not an evil person. But we carry on. Hopefully with some empathy. And ideally without a lot of shouting and blaming.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I care... in the sense that I feel a little bad. Empathy.

I don't care enough to make a different decision. I won't lose any sleep over it.

And it's hard to express much caring in the face of people attacking you, calling you evil, etc.

I have said time and again that I don't wish anybody ill will, and I want you to survive... I'm just not willing to make sacrifices - I don't care that much. My own interests (or my own school's interests) have to come first.

That make sense? I think I've been pretty consistent. There are degrees of caring - it's not all or nothing.


Sort of like reforming entitlements. I care that there will be people harmed. But I would still do it, because I think it's better in the long run (and better for me). I can't carry all of the world's woes on my own shoulders.

Have you ever voted? Because surely something you voted for/against wasn't great for everybody out there.

Until your last 2 posts directed at me, you have never once mentioned that you care about any of these programs. You said yourself you don't care if huntsville folds. You sure don't sound like you care if MSUM, BSU, UAA or MTU fold. You sure don't seem to care that those 4 programs have been kicked to to curb. I'm not asking you to wish the decisions weren't made but you are not sincere in the least. As far as you're concerned if tomorrow BSU, MSUM, UAA and MTU didn't have hockey teams, you'd be fine with that. That's just bull**** because college hockey needs programs, if programs start folding, CC and NCHC will be worse off than they are today. If you can't see that you're even dumber than I already think you are.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Until your last 2 posts directed at me, you have never once mentioned that you care about any of these programs. You said yourself you don't care if huntsville folds. You sure don't sound like you care if MSUM, BSU, UAA or MTU fold. You sure don't seem to care that those 4 programs have been kicked to to curb. I'm not asking you to wish the decisions weren't made but you are not sincere in the least. As far as you're concerned if tomorrow BSU, MSUM, UAA and MTU didn't have hockey teams, you'd be fine with that. That's just bull**** because college hockey needs programs, if programs start folding, CC and NCHC will be worse off than they are today. If you can't see that you're even dumber than I already think you are.

I don't much care about Alabama, that's true. But neither does anybody else, it seems. At least not enough to bite the bullet and add them.

Apparently there are also degrees of selfishness, and no program in the country is immune. If Alabama fails, you will be every bit as culpable as any of the Big 10 or NCHC schools. Don't pretend you're some sort of saint; you're being a hypocrite when you do.

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I don't much care about Alabama, that's true. But neither does anybody else, it seems. At least not enough to bite the bullet and add them.

Apparently there are also degrees of selfishness, and no program in the country is immune. If Alabama fails, you will be every bit as culpable as any of the Big 10 or NCHC schools. Don't pretend you're some sort of saint; you're being a hypocrite when you do.

****, I thought he was on a short list for pontification.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

****, I thought he was on a short list for pontification.

So it's okay when you guys are selfish. It's okay for the CCHA (and now WCHA) to reject a school in need like Alabama. It's okay for the WCHA to make a decision that isn't in the best interest of college hockey overall, because it's better for the conference.

But when other schools do it, and you're the victim, then it's not okay.

Hypocrites. You're all being hypocrites.

I am comfortable standing up and saying - no way, the NCHC should not take Alabama, it's not good for us.

Can anybody give me any reason why the WCHA shouldn't take them; a reason that doesn't reference the NCHC?

 

[Priceless]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Guys, why are you bothering to argue with him? Just accept that you're never going to convince him that he's a selfish ******* or that he's wrong about a great many things and just move on?

 

[ronmexico]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I don't much care about Alabama, that's true.

Did it bug the crap out of you when CC scheduled UAH last season? Did you burn your tickets in protest or anything like that? Did you know that some teams even go to Alabama to play the Chargers???

 

[Pablo]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

You also misunderstand the CC-DU relationship. CC is a very wealthy school, as I mentioned before. It has an endowment 50% larger than DU's, and more than 6-times Michigan Tech's. CC doesn't need DU to survive - as long as CC wants to have a D-1 program, it will have one, regardless of conference affiliation. Luck has nothing to do with it. And CC (as much as it pains me to say) is the academic heavyweight of Front Range private schools. DU and CC are a package deal, but I don't think one is more dependent on the other.

Wow, it's like you totally forgot that CC's hockey program almost completely folded recently. Yes, CC IS fortunate to have a partner in DU. CC needs DU much more than DU needs CC. It's silly of you to suggest otherwise.

As for CC being an "academic heavyweight": CC does have stronger entrance requirements. But until they grow some nuts and offer all of the things that DU does (strong law & business schools, tons of graduate programs, competitive at the D-1 level in things other than just hockey) then you shouldn't be calling yourself a heavyweight--perhaps just a contender in the flyweight category.

 

[Flashy Man]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

I am comfortable standing up and saying - no way, the NCHC should not take Alabama, it's not good for us.

Can anybody give me any reason why the WCHA shouldn't take them; a reason that doesn't reference the NCHC?

I'm comfortable standing up and saying - yes way, the WCHA should take Alabama, it's good for college hockey.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

So it's okay when you guys are selfish. It's okay for the CCHA (and now WCHA) to reject a school in need like Alabama. It's okay for the WCHA to make a decision that isn't in the best interest of college hockey overall, because it's better for the conference.

But when other schools do it, and you're the victim, then it's not okay.

Hypocrites. You're all being hypocrites.

I am comfortable standing up and saying - no way, the NCHC should not take Alabama, it's not good for us.

Can anybody give me any reason why the WCHA shouldn't take them; a reason that doesn't reference the NCHC?

the WCHA helped save BSU, and yes the CCHA was wrong to reject UAH. BGSU, Miami and OSU are closer to Huntsville than UNO or NMU. I think the WCHA probably will admit UAH if BGSU accepts their invitation. As far as I know, UAH hasn't even tried to apply to the WCHA ever.

 

[bunt_q]

Re: The new Super League is going down the tubes.

Wow, it's like you totally forgot that CC's hockey program almost completely folded recently. Yes, CC IS fortunate to have a partner in DU. CC needs DU much more than DU needs CC. It's silly of you to suggest otherwise.

As for CC being an "academic heavyweight": CC does have stronger entrance requirements. But until they grow some nuts and offer all of the things that DU does (strong law & business schools, tons of graduate programs, competitive at the D-1 level in things other than just hockey) then you shouldn't be calling yourself a heavyweight--perhaps just a contender in the flyweight category.

Umm, "yourself"? I am a DU grad. I am glad you think we have a strong law program though, I am flattered. I am not sure the legal community necessarily agrees, but that's a different discussion altogether.

CC will have a program as long as they decide to subsidize it, and it will fold the day they decide not to. It's not a moneymaker. I am sure the NCHC conference agreement will be a little more concrete than a vague reference to a "commitment to hockey" - they will force CC to memorialize it.