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The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

I still think you're on crack. Know where my dad, with his PhD in heat transfer, worked? At a large chemical company (13,000 employees), designing processes and plants. Chem Es laid out the process (we need these chemicals to react at at those pressures and temperatures), but Mech Es did all the detailed design of the plants, including the piping and the cooling.

I've worked for 18 years in thermal management and cooling of aircraft electronics and other systems, and I've never even heard of a Chem E who worked in the field.

My jaw would hit the floor if you could find a single Chem E who worked on the cooling system for a Google server farm.

Methinks things have changed since your dad was around ;) . It's why the company I work for, a large mining and manufacturing company that employs 84,000, prefers chemical engineers (but also accepts mechanical engineers) to do their division engineering work (i.e. laying out the processes but also designing the systems and piping). It's virtually all I do now. Everyone in my engineering group is a chemical engineer. The vast majority in our department are chemical engineers.

I've worked for only seven years in engineering, but in that short time, the mechanical engineers have worked almost exclusively on HVAC applications while the chemical guys are doing the processes, the pumps, the piping, the reactor jackets, the heat exchangers, the cooling towers, the instrumentation, the distillation columns, etc. The only places we rely on other engineers are on the structural, electrical, and controls (the programming and communication). Otherwise the teams of chemical engineers take on the projects. Why hire two people to do a job when one person can do both? Again, it's anecdotal, but our department that handles something like 25%-33% of the company's capital expenditures.

Edit: I have seen some of the coursework for MechEs. Two of my roommates in college were MechEs. I would trust them to do most heat transfer applications including the Google servers.
 
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Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Well, I think you work at a very unusual company. Someone somewhere along the line must have had a personal bias and it became part of your company's culture somehow. It goes back to what I said earlier: why would they pay Chem Es to do that work when Mech Es could do every task you listed? Your company is over-paying for that work - just as they shouldn't hire 2 people to do 1 person's job, they shouldn't hire a more expensive engineer (aren't Chem Es the most highly paid?) to do a simple job like laying out plumbing. I seriously doubt that all of your projects involve a single engineer anyway, so even if there were a need for some Chem E expertise on a 2-person project, why not 1 Chem E and 1 Mech E?

If you move around to different companies in your career, you will find that most do not use Chem Es in the way that yours does.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

No wonder Al-Qaida hates us and (according to flag) our Government wants this country to fail...
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

No wonder Al-Qaida hates us and (according to flag) our Government wants this country to fail...
History is riddled with leaders who did more to aid their enemies rather than their country.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

If the nerds keep talking I might defect :p
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

History is riddled with leaders who did more to aid their enemies rather than their country.

And this country is riddled with morons that insist the President wants the country to fail.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Well, I think you work at a very unusual company. Someone somewhere along the line must have had a personal bias and it became part of your company's culture somehow. It goes back to what I said earlier: why would they pay Chem Es to do that work when Mech Es could do every task you listed? Your company is over-paying for that work - just as they shouldn't hire 2 people to do 1 person's job, they shouldn't hire a more expensive engineer (aren't Chem Es the most highly paid?) to do a simple job like laying out plumbing. I seriously doubt that all of your projects involve a single engineer anyway, so even if there were a need for some Chem E expertise on a 2-person project, why not 1 Chem E and 1 Mech E?

If you move around to different companies in your career, you will find that most do not use Chem Es in the way that yours does.

Perhaps. And you are right, we usually don't have a single engineer on a project, and chemical engineers are the highest paid. However, they prefer ChEns because they have the knowledge of the mech eng when it comes to heat and mass transfer but also the chemical and economics background required to design the process. Still, I'd guess that most of the engineers on the capital projects (among non-structural, electrical, and controls disciplines) are ChEns. The MechEs, I feel, are most likely to be in the machine design engineering and HVAC groups. They'd focus on the proprietary machine design, the exhaust systems, and the building HVAC systems. However, there are MechEs in our department and they do just fine on the non-chemical projects such as the web-handling systems and other non-fluidic processes.

When I worked for a consulting firm, virtually all of the heat & mass transfer problems were handled by the chemical group. The guy I would have considered to be our expert mechE was typically designing the machinery on our biggest projects ($30+ million). Ditto with most of the engineering firms we hire at my new company.

I'd actually be curious to see what other major companies do as well. The Dows, Exxons, and other major employers of the chemical engineers.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

I'd actually be curious to see what other major companies do as well. The Dows, Exxons, and other major employers of the chemical engineers.
Funny you should mention that - out of college, I had 2 job offers, one at an aerospace company in beautiful, rural Vermont and one at Exxon in Baytown, TX (industrial sector of Houston sprawl). Easy choice!
 
And this country is riddled with morons that insist the President wants the country to fail.

Keep in mind that these are the same morons who still claim him to be a Muslim, a Kenyan, a purple soda drinkin' fried chicken eatin' negro, a communist, etc.

It's like they looked at their idiotic counterparts in the left that thought Bush was a moronic yokel that masterminded 9/11 and thought "hey, I can top that".
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Funny you should mention that - out of college, I had 2 job offers, one at an aerospace company in beautiful, rural Vermont and one at Exxon in Baytown, TX (industrial sector of Houston sprawl). Easy choice!
You went to Kansas? Seriously - I don't know which one paid you more, but if the base salary was the same, your take home would have been greater in Texas.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

You went to Kansas? Seriously - I don't know which one paid you more, but if the base salary was the same, your take home would have been greater in Texas.
Vermont, actually, was a better offer even after taxes and COLA, but I would have gone there for the quality of life anyway. That was 7 jobs ago, though - aerospace companies build a new plane about every 15 years, so if you sit at one place for your whole career, you only get to work on 2 new planes. I've made a conscious decision to follow interesting work rather than setting down roots - that's not for everyone, but it works for me.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Vermont, actually, was a better offer even after taxes and COLA, but I would have gone there for the quality of life anyway. That was 7 jobs ago, though - aerospace companies build a new plane about every 15 years, so if you sit at one place for your whole career, you only get to work on 2 new planes. I've made a conscious decision to follow interesting work rather than setting down roots - that's not for everyone, but it works for me.

Smart choice. Luckily the longest projects I will probably lead in my career will top out at 2-4 years. Currently, the average capital project I work on lasts about a year. Though I'm still at a relatively low job grade.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

In my company, the ChemE's size the piping and define the requirements for hydraulics (draining, etc.) to get the piping routed properly. Then we have mechanical technicians do the actual piping routing. MechE's review the design to make sure it's suitably flexible for thermal expansion and contraction, and the ChemE's review the hydraulics to make sure it met our requirements.

For distillation columns, the ChemE's size the column and the internals and the MechE's do the thickness calcs and other related code calcs (since most ChemE's aren't PE's). For exchangers the ChemE's issue a duty spec and we let the vendor select the appropriate standard model. Once again, the MechE's review the mechanical aspects and the ChemE's the sizing.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Petraeus resigns three days after the election after admitting to an affair.

Sorry, but this doesn't pass the smell test
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

IIRC, an affair can cost you your security clearance because of how easily you can be compromised.
 
Re: The 4th Global War on Terror - Deja vu all over again!

Does he still testify in the Benghazi hearings?
 
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