The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

[joecct]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rover, Rover, Rover (cue the Dan Ackroyd -> Jane Curtin moment)

What I said was if you raise the minimum wage by $0.10, I would not be surprised if the additional overhead (payroll taxes to the employer) raised the actual cost to the employer to $0.11, all of which would be passed on the the consumer.

Now, if I, as the greedy business owner, decided that I needed an additional 10% take home pay (to pay for the extra costs like food and gas and kids' education), I would also raise the cost of goods by a % to make sure that the I got mine and the investors got theirs.

Now, if I, as the socially responsible owner, decided that all my employees deserved a 10% raise, of course I would raise the prices of my goods so that I could maintain the bottom line.

I'm sure your idea of the social-welfare state decries all prophets (and profits) as being immoral. Sorry, I never met a profit I didn't like. It indicates a successful business.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Rover, Rover, Rover (cue the Dan Ackroyd -> Jane Curtin moment)

What I said was if you raise the minimum wage by $0.10, I would not be surprised if the additional overhead (payroll taxes to the employer) raised the actual cost to the employer to $0.11, all of which would be passed on the the consumer.

Now, if I, as the greedy business owner, decided that I needed an additional 10% take home pay (to pay for the extra costs like food and gas and kids' education), I would also raise the cost of goods by a % to make sure that the I got mine and the investors got theirs.

Now, if I, as the socially responsible owner, decided that all my employees deserved a 10% raise, of course I would raise the prices of my goods so that I could maintain the bottom line.

I'm sure your idea of the social-welfare state decries all prophets (and profits) as being immoral. Sorry, I never met a profit I didn't like. It indicates a successful business.

The belief that all additional costs are automatically passed on to the consumer is a myth. It depends on numerous variables, including the competitiveness of the market, the elasticity of demand, the substitution effect of comparable goods, etc. In something like healthcare, they probably get passed on because what are you going to do, not get your chemotherapy when you get cancer? In something like the fast food market that is extremely competitive? It's highly unlikely that the entire raise in the minimum wage gets passed on to the end consumer. The owners likely eat some of that in the form of lower profits.

Also, the minimum wage was at its highest in inflation-adjusted dollars in 1968, the equivalent of ~10.75 in today's dollars. It also rose from $3.35 to $5.15 an hour between 1990-97. Doesn't seem like it hurt the economy all that much at that time, did it?

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

In something like the fast food market that is extremely competitive? It's highly unlikely that the entire raise in the minimum wage gets passed on to the end consumer. The owners likely eat some of that in the form of lower profits.

Which is still healthier for them than their food.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Congratulations to Mississippi for finally entering the 17th Century. A few more decades and they might get to the 18th...

It’s official: Mississippi ratifies 13th Amendment



Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. There are plenty of other reasons to put an asterisk next to Mississippi...

For generations, Louisiana kids said "thank God for Mississippi" every night when they said their prayers.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

The owners likely eat some of that in the form of lower profits.
?

Maybe at first but not forever. That cost increase will get passed on

 

[Rover]

Rover, Rover, Rover (cue the Dan Ackroyd -> Jane Curtin moment)

What I said was if you raise the minimum wage by $0.10, I would not be surprised if the additional overhead (payroll taxes to the employer) raised the actual cost to the employer to $0.11, all of which would be passed on the the consumer.

Now, if I, as the greedy business owner, decided that I needed an additional 10% take home pay (to pay for the extra costs like food and gas and kids' education), I would also raise the cost of goods by a % to make sure that the I got mine and the investors got theirs.

Now, if I, as the socially responsible owner, decided that all my employees deserved a 10% raise, of course I would raise the prices of my goods so that I could maintain the bottom line.

I'm sure your idea of the social-welfare state decries all prophets (and profits) as being immoral. Sorry, I never met a profit I didn't like. It indicates a successful business.

joey joey joey, its time for you to give up the ghost. Once again you're talking classroom speak while I'm talking real world. I'm sorry if I've shattered your illusion of how things work, but for you, walrus, fishy, etc repeating the same talking points no matter how untrue is not going to make them true. Ever. Again in the real world, while you may in fact pass some costs along, the idea that you pass more than the costs along every time (your original premise) is stupid. How do I know this? From actually being part of it. You can come out here and say the same thing 1000 times, and 1001 times I will refute your theortical example with reality. What I find funny in all of this discussion is nobody on the right is siting real world examples save for Lynah, and nobody is disputing the studies I posted. Still waiting for geezer to point out that "every time" the minimum wage is raised the economy suffers. Also that "every study" shows this. See, geezer knows he got caught in a lie and he's slinked away accordingly. I'd suggest you also change the subject because I've already studied economics long enough to know its all BS and theory. And following your theory, businesses would always operate at the same or increasing profit margin because they would just always pass along additional costs to customers. That makes no sense, but feel free to keep thinking that...

 

[unofan]

Maybe at first but not forever. That cost increase will get passed on

If the other factors in the market allow that, then sure. But that's hardly a 100% certainty.

All the free market guarantees is the going rate of return on capital. Nothing says that rate of return is constant or otherwise cannot be diminished. I just refinanced my house. The bank would have rather I hadn't, but it was faced with losing the entire loan if I took it elsewhere, so it accepted a lower interest rate. Fast food places and other places where minimum wage workers are predominant are part of a very price concious market. They can probably raise prices somewhat, but my educated guess is that the owners also bear some of that as well.

 

[Rover]

If the other factors in the market allow that, then sure. But that's hardly a 100% certainty.

All the free market guarantees is the going rate of return on capital. Nothing says that rate of return is constant or otherwise cannot be diminished. I just refinanced my house. The bank would have rather I hadn't, but it was faced with losing the entire loan if I took it elsewhere, so it accepted a lower interest rate. Fast food places and other places where minimum wage workers are predominant are part of a very price concious market. They can probably raise prices somewhat, but my educated guess is that the owners also bear some of that as well.

Especially if you're in a market of price takers, which is a lot of what the fast food market is. In a well saturated market your prices are pretty much dictated by what the consumers are willing to bear given the vast amount of substitutes, not what you want to charge them to maintain a pre-determined profit margin. Now if you're selling kidney dialysis machines then sure you can most likely pass along your costs, but I'm not sure too many workers in that industry are making minimum wage.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Now THIS is funny! Looks like we know where the Republicans like Ted Cruz on the Armed Services Committee get their info...

Is This How Breitbart Got The ‘Friends Of Hamas’ Scoop?

Last Friday, in “This Week In Crazy,” our own Henry Decker told you how Ben Shapiro, Editor-at-Large of Breitbart News, set off a media firestorm by linking President Obama’s nominee for Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, a former Republican senator, to a group called “Friends of Hamas.”

The only problem was that the group doesn’t exist.

So where did the story come from? Is Breitbart playing Mad Libs, or maybe throwing darts at names on a board?

The answer to this question may provide some excellent insight into the world of right-wing media, where baseless accusations quickly become headlines.

In Wednesday’s New York Daily News, reporter Dan Friedman explains how his joking questions to a Senate aide might be the basis of the ALL-CAPS headline that appeared on Breitbart on February 7:

On Feb. 6, I called a Republican aide on Capitol Hill with a question: Did Hagel’s Senate critics know of controversial groups that he had addressed?

Hagel was in hot water for alleged hostility to Israel. So, I asked my source, had Hagel given a speech to, say, the “Junior League of Hezbollah, in France”? And: What about “Friends of Hamas”?

The names were so over-the-top, so linked to terrorism in the Middle East, that it was clear I was talking hypothetically and hyperbolically. No one could take seriously the idea that organizations with those names existed — let alone that a former senator would speak to them.

Or so I thought.

The aide promised to get back to me. I followed up with an email, as a reminder: “Did he get $25K speaking fee from Friends of Hamas?” I asked.

Andrew Breitbart, the deceased founder of the site, would likely be proud of this journalism-by-accusation. It made him very famous. But what’s most troubling about this story, if true, is the complicity between the staffs of respected Republicans in spreading unfounded rumors to right-wing sites not known for their veracity. And neither party did the simple LexisNexis search it would have taken to verify that this group actually exists.

Shapiro is the author of a book called Bullies, which attempts to flip the notion that the left stands up for oppressed people into the idea that the defenders of the richest 1 percent are actually the ones being bullied. That’s pretty hilarious, especially because spreading unfounded rumors designed to defame the vulnerable is the first trick middle-school bullies learn.

Now Shapiro will say the backlash he’s receiving for his false story is just more bullying. And he’ll sell more books. Because for the right wing in America, being a “victim” of legitimate criticism isn’t embarrassing, it’s a business model.

UPDATE: Ben Shapiro’s super-reliable and secret source tells him that Dan Friedman was not the source of the “Friends of Hamas” story. The original “Friends of Hamas” story remains on the Breitbart site uncorrected. We’re not linking to either post, for obvious reasons.


http://www.nationalmemo.com/is-this-how-breitbart-got-the-friends-of-hamas-scoop/

Idiots.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Maybe at first but not forever. That cost increase will get passed on

It gets passed on just as much as...million dollar salaries and golden parachutes for executives who are failures. If its a choice between parachutes or a dollar an hour for the multitude of those working with customers...I know where I invest that next dollar.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

It gets passed on just as much as...million dollar salaries and golden parachutes for executives who are failures. If its a choice between parachutes or a dollar an hour for the multitude of those working with customers...I know where I invest that next dollar.

Me too. But the shareholders have got to hold their boards of directors accountable. Too often, like the electorate, they rubberstamp the actions of who they are voting for. This enables the board (or the legislature) to go even more "out there" the next time.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Okay, which one of you knucks' put Itch McConnell up to this? I'm going to guess Fishy.

Senate Minority Leader Fooled by Report in Military Version of The Onion
By Spencer Ackerman


The best parody contains elements of truth. Which might explain how the military’s answer to The Onion suckered the Senate’s Republican leader.

Meet The Duffel Blog, if you haven’t already. A must-read for national-security nerds — and anyone who enjoys humor, really — it provides pitch-perfect military parody online, such as this piece about Syria hosting Iraq War reenactors (bylined by “G-Had”) or this one about a Google Street View Prius getting blown up in Kandahar. The Duffel Blog, as dutiful readers know, is America’s oldest online source for fake military news, founded in 1797 in a moment of farsightedness. It often gives more real talk than most legit journalistic institutions, but there is no way you can confuse it with the real news.

Unless you are a senior member of the United States Senate.

On November 14, 2012, Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) wrote to Elizabeth King, the Pentagon’s congressional liaison, with a an unusually credulous query. “I am writing on behalf of a constituent who has contacted me regarding Guantanamo Bay prisoners receiving Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits,” McConnell wrote in a letter acquired by Danger Room. “I would appreciate your review and response to my constituent’s concerns.”


Um, Guantanamo detainees getting GI Bill benefits? Yes, that’s from the Duffel Blog, as McConnell’s constituent clearly states, complete with the reference URL. Said constituent even notes that he or she can’t find any information about the alleged government payouts to suspected insurgents and terrorists.

The Defense Department does a lot of inexplicable things at Guantanamo Bay — there’s a resume-building workshop for detainees, for real — but paying detainees GI Bill benefits is not one of them. “The very idea that the U.S. government would extend GI Bill benefits to enemy detainees is a patent absurdity,” says Army Lt. Col. Todd Breasseale, the Pentagon’s spokesman on all matters Guantanamo.

The Duffel Blog piece about the fake GI Bill benefits is not subtle. “By allowing the detainees to use the Department of Veterans Affairs, we hope to completely crush their souls with bureaucracy,” it quotes a fake Pentagon spokesman saying. There’s also a false quote from Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki: “Because most ‘guests’ at Guantanamo Bay have been there nearly a decade and there is no end in site for their ‘visit,’ the Department of Veterans Affairs is ready to have their claims processed in 12-15 years as per standard operating procedure.”

At the risk of explaining the joke, the Duffel Blog’s real objective is to send up the inadequate, mollasses-slow benefits the government provides to the nation’s veterans. In other news, Garfield ate all the lasagna and now Jon is really mad.

It’s admirable that McConnell went out of his way to address a constituent’s question. “The senator’s office had a request from a constituent asking us to inquire about an issue,” explains McConnell spokesman Michael Brumas. “Our office forwarded the constituent’s question to the Defense Department.”

But perhaps simply following the link to the uniformed version of The Onion would have sufficed to clear up any confusion.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

It gets passed on just as much as...million dollar salaries and golden parachutes for executives who are failures. If its a choice between parachutes or a dollar an hour for the multitude of those working with customers...I know where I invest that next dollar.

As soon as you own a business you can with it what you want

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

. They can probably raise prices somewhat, but my educated guess is that the owners also bear some of that as well.

The owners won't bear it for long in the Cstore world, not sure about the fast food world. They're looking for a certain % out of a location, get it or shut it down

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

As soon as you own a business you can with it what you want

No. No you can't. You have to follow the will of society in the form of law.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

As soon as you own a business you can with it what you want

you didn't own that business

 

[geezer]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

geezer knows he got caught in a lie and he's slinked away accordingly.

This is also a lie piled on your other lies. I just find that in my advanced age, I'm no longer able to suffer fools as patiently as I once was, so I gave up trying. It's not worth the aggravation. Actually, I'm OK with talking to fools that mean well, like Priceless. I'm also OK with vain blowhards, like Kepler - he was fun. I'm even OK with liars, if they don't take themselves too seriously. But you are a fool, a liar, and have a stinking heap of vanity piled on it; really a terrible person that combines all that is bad in the worst aspects of normal people. So I'm having a hard time continuing to keep patience with you. This is why I slinked away from the conversation.

Although from a clinical standpoint, I admit I'd be interested in hearing how you got this way. Were you sold into slavery as a child or something? I'm trying to imagine an acceptable excuse.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

No. No you can't. You have to follow the will of society in the form of law.

What a dope

 

[Rover]

This is also a lie piled on your other lies. I just find that in my advanced age, I'm no longer able to suffer fools as patiently as I once was, so I gave up trying. It's not worth the aggravation. Actually, I'm OK with talking to fools that mean well, like Priceless. I'm also OK with vain blowhards, like Kepler - he was fun. I'm even OK with liars, if they don't take themselves too seriously. But you are a fool, a liar, and have a stinking heap of vanity piled on it; really a terrible person that combines all that is bad in the worst aspects of normal people. So I'm having a hard time continuing to keep patience with you. This is why I slinked away from the conversation.

Although from a clinical standpoint, I admit I'd be interested in hearing how you got this way. Were you sold into slavery as a child or something? I'm trying to imagine an acceptable excuse.

No, but I think we've arrived at the root of your problem. You seem to be a bitter, broken down old man who peaked in the early 1980's and wants to reset society back to that time period. Since most of the rest of us have moved on, you remain part of a dwindling group of dinosaurs railing at why things can't be "the way there were dammit" even though that era contained the very things (deficits, growing government, terrorism, etc) that you rail against today.

How's that work for you?

Moving on, that brilliant GOP strategy of getting the Prez to take the blame for the sequester? Not working so well...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...op-guns-energy-immigration-sequester/1934233/


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...-year-high-in-poll-republicans-at-bottom.html

Of course, I haven't seen the "unskewed" version of these polls

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

If our pandering class (commonly known as "politicians") really, truly cared about reducing gun violence, they'd initiate a frank conversation about decriminalizing drugs.

I hesitate to say "legalize" because then one might advertise and promote expanded drug use. We don't want that. We merely want to end the obscene profit margins to be made by selling illegal drugs and all of the other problems that then follow from that problem.

Nicotine is a highly-addictive drug whose use is declining in part because it is not criminal to buy it or use it. It is merely disgusting and unhealthy. Social pressure and health concerns are enough to drive a 'stop smoking' industry.

If there were no illegal drugs, then we wouldn't be having gang wars over who controls drug distribution rights in the big cities.