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The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

We can't do the right thing to keep drunk drivers off the roads... Silly to get all worried about crack drivers
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I have no idea what you think on these questions, but they need to be asked an answered. A long long time ago Abe Lincoln came up with a great quip to the pro slavery crowd, which went somewhat like this "slavery has got to be the only so-called good thing that no man wishes upon himself". Likewise legal drug use will be the only good thing that nobody would wish to have happening next door to them or near their kids school.
There is already legal drug use, including of meth, in your kid's school. It's called Desoxyn.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Another example of Congress passing laws that everyone else has to follow while exempting themselves.

"Raise the minimum wage!" they cry....except for Congressional internships, of course, which are still unpaid. :rolleyes:
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

While Pat's sense of history may be a little skewed (Never heard of Nixon's "Guam Doctrine" but it seems like he abandoned it pretty quick as the US had troops in Vietnam throughout his time in office) he brings up a good point. I can certainly see a situation where you'd keep a couple of main bases in Europe especially to transport to different hot spots in Africa and the Middle East. However, troops stationed as a result of wars long ago (WWII, Korea, etc) need to be sent home. South Korea at this point in time ought to be able to defend itself, and bear the cost of defending itself from North Korea so bring US troops home. I'm not sure if the base closing commission also deals with overseas outposts, but scaling them back is the right idea.

The day Nixon took the oath of office in January of 1969, the United States already had half a million troops in Vietnam, not a single one of whom he had ordered there. Your pals, LBJ and McNamara and enthusiastic, overwhelming Democrat majorities in both houses of Congress were responsible for that. Nixon was the one who ended our involvement in that war.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Another example of Congress passing laws that everyone else has to follow while exempting themselves.

"Raise the minimum wage!" they cry....except for Congressional internships, of course, which are still unpaid. :rolleyes:

I always felt a littlle cheated that I couldn't have an account in the House Bank that would permit me to write a sh*tload of NSF checks with no penalty whatsoever.
 
The day Nixon took the oath of office in January of 1969, the United States already had half a million troops in Vietnam, not a single one of whom he had ordered there. Your pals, LBJ and McNamara and enthusiastic, overwhelming Democrat majorities in both houses of Congress were responsible for that. Nixon was the one who ended our involvement in that war.

Opie, I'm well aware troops were already in Vietnam. However the idea put forth in that article that Nixon's view was you give Asian allies weapons and let them fight seems to have been abandoned by Tricky Dick as he kept US troops in Vietnam right up until he resigned in disgrace. US troops didn't leave Vietnam until 1975 IIRC, with the last two casualties being suffered during the Fall of Saigon.
 
Another example of Congress passing laws that everyone else has to follow while exempting themselves.

"Raise the minimum wage!" they cry....except for Congressional internships, of course, which are still unpaid. :rolleyes:

Umm....Fishy, we have unpaid internships in my company too and I don't work for the gubmint. Get it together will ya? Blathering Fox cable talking points just makes you look stupid. Didn't you learn anything from the "Friends of Hamas" debacle? Lets just say right wing media ain't big on fact checking and we'll leave it at that. :D
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Opie, I'm well aware troops were already in Vietnam. However the idea put forth in that article that Nixon's view was you give Asian allies weapons and let them fight seems to have been abandoned by Tricky Dick as he kept US troops in Vietnam right up until he resigned in disgrace. US troops didn't leave Vietnam until 1975 IIRC, with the last two casualties being suffered during the Fall of Saigon.

As usual, the war you lefties used as the excuse to excoriate America (spelling it with a "K" for instance) isn't your fault. It's the hated Nixon. What, exactly, do you suppose those hundreds of thousands of GI's already in Vietnam were doing? They were fighting a war. A war that a Democrat president aided by Democrat majorities in congress greatly expanded beyond the scope of JFK's involvement. You are doubtless aware of Oliver Stone's delusions about Kennedy ending our involvement (which he suggests is a major factor in the assassination). Now Kennedy may or may not have changed course in Vietnam, but there is surely no persuasive evidence of what he would have done had he not been murdered.

You also conveniently "misremember" the politics of the time. When Nixon became president the formerly gung-ho Democrats on capitol hill became anti-war. Lead by that world class phony J. William Fulbright. A racist who never voted for any piece of civil rights legislation and kept the federal money flowing into Arkansas, both of which kept the sh*tkickers at home happy. This great brain was Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee when it issued the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. Later, however, the great brain claimed to have been "tricked" by LBJ even though his committee wrote the resolution. It was before Fulbright's committee that that other world class phony John Kerry, appeared out of uniform to enter scurrilous lies about American servicemen into the record. And inflict on an unprepared public the pronunciation "Jen' jis" for the great Mongol emperor.

Those heavy Democrat majorities in Congress became, generally, as anti-war as they had earlier been pro-war. They fought Nixon every step of the way. Vietnamization was a good idea. And would have worked, if the congressional Democrats had not done everything in their power to pander to the anti-war "kids" that were paralyzing campuses from coast to coast. Of course, Vietnamization wasn't occurring as fast as the anti-war Chicken Switch Democrats wanted. Naturally. At the end, with Ford in the White House, Democrats in congress refused to authorize funds to help South Vietnam repel the invasion from the north. Tens of thousands of people were tortured, "re-educated" or murdered as a result.

You may recall when the North Vietnamese dragged their feet during the Paris talks, Nixon sent the B-52s over Hanoi, wingtip to wingtip (the "Christmas bombing"). And whadya know, they came back to the table. Nixon also mined the harbors of Hanoi and Haifong, despite fears (by Democrats, naturally) that doing so would risk bringing the Soviets or Chinese into the war (at least to a greater extent than they were already involved).

Nixon didn't start the Vietnam War. He inherited it. And he ended it. And all these years later you want to blur those facts by making irrelevant comments about whether or not he "abandoned" his views on people fighting their own wars. But he didn't wind down our involvement fast enough to suit you and the other phonies. Al Gore had to have a cup of coffee in Vietnam (far behind the lines, with a personal bodyguard) because his father was facing huge opposition at home because of his anti-war activities. Gore later claimed he did so because he didn't want some other young man to have to serve in that war. A statement which would have been more believable if he'd served a full tour. Now, that environmental phony has made himself a "tillonaire" by taking gobs of oil money.
 
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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Opie as usual you need a chill pill. I was too busy being born at the end of the Vietnam war to be blaming Nixon for it. Although I may have blamed him for when I was teething, looking back on it I suppose that wasn't his fault nor was the bronchitis I dealt with around the time of his resignation.

Nixon as a President was an abject failure. Like Bush II decades later, he dragged on a war needlessly that should have ended earlier even though as you say he didn't start it. The problem in Vietnam doesn't seem to be Democrats or college kids at the time, it seems to be the South Vietnamese who were unable or unwilling to defend their own country so lets put blame where it primarily belongs.

Furthermore its a historical fact that Kennedy signed an executive order pulling all troops out of Vietnam by X-mas of '65, only to have that reversed after his death. At that point Opie I'm sure even you will admit there wasn't much for JFK to do about it since he was, you know, dead. Feel free to blame LBJ for the war's conduct all you want, but you've got some strange views on who is responsible for what.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Opie as usual you need a chill pill. I was too busy being born at the end of the Vietnam war to be blaming Nixon for it. Although I may have blamed him for when I was teething, looking back on it I suppose that wasn't his fault nor was the bronchitis I dealt with around the time of his resignation.

Nixon as a President was an abject failure. Like Bush II decades later, he dragged on a war needlessly that should have ended earlier even though as you say he didn't start it. The problem in Vietnam doesn't seem to be Democrats or college kids at the time, it seems to be the South Vietnamese who were unable or unwilling to defend their own country so lets put blame where it primarily belongs.

Furthermore its a historical fact that Kennedy signed an executive order pulling all troops out of Vietnam by X-mas of '65, only to have that reversed after his death. At that point Opie I'm sure even you will admit there wasn't much for JFK to do about it since he was, you know, dead. Feel free to blame LBJ for the war's conduct all you want, but you've got some strange views on who is responsible for what.

Interesting argument: "I'm too ignernt to know the facts and too lazy to look them up." History is showing and will show that Nixon was far from an "abject failure." But I understand libstains tell little libstains scary Nixon stories around campfires ("Alger Hiss, BOOGA! BOOGA!"), so it's of no moment. And I'd imagine you could use a discussion of Jamoca Almond Fudge to blame Bush II for the unrelated fevers you seem to suffer from. But that tells us more about you than it does about him. And your analysis of the shortcomings of the South Vietnamese in defending themselves conveniently overlooks the contributions of the Soviets and Chinese to the "superiority" of the North Vietnamese.

But when you talk about the "historical fact" that JFK was planning to withdraw "all" American forces from Vietnam and had "signed an executive order" to that effect, you are deeply in the conspiracy weeds. Along with your apparant mentor, Oliver Stone. Kennedy had signed an order rotating about 1,000 troops home for Christmas. A custom for which there is a long tradition. And the small withdrawal was also designed to get the attention of the Diem regime, which was cracking down on domestic opposition rather more enthusiastically than the president wanted. There is zero evidence that he signed anything ordering a total American withdrawal or said he was going to do it or even wanted to do it. Quite the contrary. He would have reiterated his commitment to Vietnam in the speech he never got to give at the Dallas Trade Mart. If it's an "historical fact," then why don't you provide a link which "proves" it?

Besides, everyone knows it was the militaryindustrialcomplexpentagonciamafiacastrosovietscorsicandrugdealers who killed Kennedy.
 
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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Interns are getting the same percentage increase that minimum wage earners are getting ;)

I'm a bit surprised that we haven't had more agitation about a maximum wage....:(

I'm sure plenty of people in this day and age would find that suggestion eminently reasonable. :(

Congress tried to do that in 2002 in one of the many odorous onerous provisions of the Sarbanes - Oxley Act....it wound up making "the rich" even richer than they otherwise would have been, in two different ways at once even.

Naturally if Congress ever were to pass a maximum wage law you can be sure that somehow lawyers and politicians would be exempt. :p
 
I'm a bit surprised that we haven't had more agitation about a maximum wage....:(

I'm sure plenty of people in this day and age would find that suggestion eminently reasonable. :(

Congress tried to do that in 2002 in one of the many odorous onerous provisions of the Sarbanes - Oxley Act....it wound up making "the rich" even richer than they otherwise would have been, in two different ways at once even.

Naturally if Congress ever were to pass a maximum wage law you can be sure that somehow lawyers and politicians would be exempt. :p

We're independent contractors. Of course we 're exempt.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Interesting argument: "I'm too ignernt to know the facts and too lazy to look them up." History is showing and will show that Nixon was far from an "abject failure." But I understand libstains tell little libstains scary Nixon stories around campfires ("Alger Hiss, BOOGA! BOOGA!"), so it's of no moment. And I'd imagine you could use a discussion of Jamoca Almond Fudge to blame Bush II for the unrelated fevers you seem to suffer from. But that tells us more about you than it does about him. And your analysis of the shortcomings of the South Vietnamese in defending themselves conveniently overlooks the contributions of the Soviets and Chinese to the "superiority" of the North Vietnamese.

But when you talk about the "historical fact" that JFK was planning to withdraw "all" American forces from Vietnam and had "signed an executive order" to that effect, you are deeply in the conspiracy weeds. Along with your apparant mentor, Oliver Stone. Kennedy had signed an order rotating about 1,000 troops home for Christmas. A custom for which there is a long tradition. And the small withdrawal was also designed to get the attention of the Diem regime, which was cracking down on domestic opposition rather more enthusiastically than the president wanted. There is zero evidence that he signed anything ordering a total American withdrawal or said he was going to do it or even wanted to do it. Quite the contrary. He would have reiterated his commitment to Vietnam in the speech he never got to give at the Dallas Trade Mart. If it's an "historical fact," then why don't you provide a link which "proves" it?

Besides, everyone knows it was the militaryindustrialcomplexpentagonciamafiacastrosovietscorsicandrugdealers who killed Kennedy.

Opie how far back in history do you want to go? Now we're discussing Alger Hiss? How about Teddy Roosevelt and the building of the Panama Canal?

I'm not going to answer for Oliver Stone, but out of respect for the possibility that you went to Vietnam I'm going to defer on this subject except to say that most of that happened 50 years ago so perhaps there's more relevant and up to date stuff going on in 2013 to concentrate on.

Regarding Nixon though, you're fair game. Richard Nixon should have gone to f ucking jail. Anybody who doesn't agree with that is clueless. Who was on those tapes instructing the CIA to interfere with the FBI? Rich Little? Not only is the man a laughingstock, he was also a bigot (recall his comments about the Jews) and corrupt to the core.

But you do bring up something interesting which is conservatism nowadays is influenced by the paranoia of Nixon instead of the optimism of Reagan. Don't know you personally but your message board persona sure fits that. Nixon got what he deserved which is to be a historical disgrace. Admit that and move on.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Hey! We stole the Panama Canal fair and square (then we gave it back).
 
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