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The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

It will decrease when the economy picks up. I'm not sure why some people are struggling with this concept, but as job losses continued throughout 2008 and 2009 before leveling off, many of those people haven't gotten back to where they were, hence the need for public assistance. I know its a comforting thought for many conservatives/libertarians to believe that anybody getting federal benefits is lazy and gaming the system, but somehow I'm not sure scamming free lunches for your kids is all that lucrative. Especially when considering that your kids would stick out like a sore thumb in the lunch line when they dressed up in an all white suit "Grifters" style....

Again, this is all apparently coming from your fevered imagination. Nobody is opposed to the school lunch program.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

It will decrease when the economy picks up. I'm not sure why some people are struggling with this concept, but as job losses continued throughout 2008 and 2009 before leveling off, many of those people haven't gotten back to where they were, hence the need for public assistance. I know its a comforting thought for many conservatives/libertarians to believe that anybody getting federal benefits is lazy and gaming the system, but somehow I'm not sure scamming free lunches for your kids is all that lucrative. Especially when considering that your kids would stick out like a sore thumb in the lunch line when they dressed up in an all white suit "Grifters" style....
Here is the problem with that idea, since 1990, the number of children getting a free lunch has decreased once, if public assistance should decrease in good times, why didn't it decrease throughout the Clinton era? I thought we were in a recovery right now so shouldn't the number be decreasing?
 
Again, this is all apparently coming from your fevered imagination. Nobody is opposed to the school lunch program.

Then what was the point of flaggy posting a story about school lunch programs with a negative lead-in?
 
Here is the problem with that idea, since 1990, the number of children getting a free lunch has decreased once, if public assistance should decrease in good times, why didn't it decrease throughout the Clinton era? I thought we were in a recovery right now so shouldn't the number be decreasing?

That would depend upon whether or not there were more children in the country therefore more of them getting help. So, to sum up, assistance should have gone down during the 90's from a children getting assistance/total children of eligible age basis. If not then that needs fixing. Or should have been fixed since time travel is not yet an option.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Then what was the point of flaggy posting a story about school lunch programs with a negative lead-in?
It is not astonishing to you that since 1980 we've gone from 37.6% of students getting a free lunch to 59.2% in 2012? You think that's a good thing? Are over 50% of all public school families that poor? It doesn't seem to make any sense that the % should grow that much. I'm sorry if you think that's wrong but it seems bad to me.
We've seen a 19% increase in the number students eating lunch but an 87% increase in the number of students getting a free lunch.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

It is not astonishing to you that since 1980 we've gone from 37.6% of students getting a free lunch to 59.2% in 2012? You think that's a good thing? Are over 50% of all public school families that poor? It doesn't seem to make any sense that the % should grow that much. I'm sorry if you think that's wrong but it seems bad to me.
We've seen a 19% increase in the number students eating lunch but an 87% increase in the number of students getting a free lunch.

the 47% are known to pro-create more than the rest of us :D
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

Then what was the point of flaggy posting a story about school lunch programs with a negative lead-in?

I probably should not speak for him, but his only comment on it was "There is no such thing as a free lunch", pointing out to those who might think otherwise that someone is indeed paying the bill for it. I think it's a good point to make from time to time, if we want to cut the federal budget we are going to have to make some choices, no way around it. If we want to continue funding everything from hand grenades to tater tots, then taxes should go up enough to cover the bills. There's no such thing as a free lunch (nice as that world would be).

I myself have come around to believing in general that increasing spending on basic social support programs like food stamps and Medicaid would be a good societal effort, and worth paying higher taxes for if we don't want to cut the size of the military (which really ought to be done anyway). There's no good reason for us to be living in a world where people in poverty, many of them homeless, are hungry and unable to get treatment for serious physical and mental illnesses. We have resources to spare and people are living some pretty horrible lives.
The trouble of course is, that higher taxes more often result in crap that does more harm than good according to the whims of idiots in charge that don't think things through before shoveling out the cash to their buddies (Cash for Clunkers, buying GM, etc.)
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

I always say, the best argument against conservative politicians is to actually put their ideas into place. I'm sure seniors, really the last big GOP constituency left, will love having Medicare become a voucher system where at say 90 years old you get to shop around amongst competing and confusing plans that offer less than the current benefits you're getting. Just what 90 year olds would love to be doing with their few remaining years I'm sure. Wonder who they'll "thank" for that?

Then, poor rural votes, who again tend to support the GOP but will now have hungry kids at school all day because we couldn't afford that 5 bucks a day they're using, can also figure out who to thank for this change in policy. Hey, works for me although when I said states shouldn't get back more than they put in, I was more talking about scaling back transporation, ag, or military expenditures in these places not free lunches for poor kids.

RAND PAUL in '16 Baby! Who's with me? :D
Rover

Federal employees and federal retirees have an open season for health insurance every year that allows them to shop for the best policy that fits their needs without worrying about pre existing medical conditions or anything. In fact, Mr. and Mrs. Octogenarian will pay the almost same premiums as Mr. and Mrs. Thirtysomething with the difference being that Uncle Sam no longer pays their share of the cost (generally 2/3 - 3/4). Isn't the FEHB program wonderful!
 
Rover

Federal employees and federal retirees have an open season for health insurance every year that allows them to shop for the best policy that fits their needs without worrying about pre existing medical conditions or anything. In fact, Mr. and Mrs. Octogenarian will pay the almost same premiums as Mr. and Mrs. Thirtysomething with the difference being that Uncle Sam no longer pays their share of the cost (generally 2/3 - 3/4). Isn't the FEHB program wonderful!

No offense but I find this to be wishful thinking. Much like high risk drivers pay more money for insurance for obvious reasons, I fail to see how in a libertarian nirvana state insurers would be charging 80 year olds the same as 30 year olds. What libertarians tend to miss is that health insurers rightly need to make a profit for their shareholders, while the govt doesn't. That is one big example of why forcing oldies to go through private insurers is going to cost more, or put another way they'll be paying a lot more for the same care.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

No offense but I find this to be wishful thinking. Much like high risk drivers pay more money for insurance for obvious reasons, I fail to see how in a libertarian nirvana state insurers would be charging 80 year olds the same as 30 year olds. What libertarians tend to miss is that health insurers rightly need to make a profit for their shareholders, while the govt doesn't. That is one big example of why forcing oldies to go through private insurers is going to cost more, or put another way they'll be paying a lot more for the same care.
And who should pay ALOT more for that same share? The system is broken so lets fix it by letting the government dictate prices for those it pays for while letting the rest of us pay increased premiums to make up the difference?
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

No offense but I find this to be wishful thinking. Much like high risk drivers pay more money for insurance for obvious reasons, I fail to see how in a libertarian nirvana state insurers would be charging 80 year olds the same as 30 year olds. What libertarians tend to miss is that health insurers rightly need to make a profit for their shareholders, while the govt doesn't. That is one big example of why forcing oldies to go through private insurers is going to cost more, or put another way they'll be paying a lot more for the same care.
If you dispute the numbers please go here:

http://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insurance/healthcare/reference-materials/#url=FEHB-Handbook

Read 'em and weep. All these are not government owned policies but private policies offered to current and retired federal employees.
 
And who should pay ALOT more for that same share? The system is broken so lets fix it by letting the government dictate prices for those it pays for while letting the rest of us pay increased premiums to make up the difference?

Sooo....you want people with little income (because well, they're like 80 years old so probably aren't working anymore) to pay more at a time when they can least afford to due to something no human can control - aging? Ooookaaaayyy...

On point article about the GOP budget plans. What exactly does a compromise look like that the Republicans can agree too?
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The Morning Plum: The GOP’s self-defeating strategy in fiscal fight
Posted by Greg Sargent on March 15, 2013 at 9:20 am

For all the continued chatter this morning about the sincerity and limits of presidential schmoozing, the real reason for the fiscal impasse is hiding right there in plain sight, and it can be summed up in two sentences:

1) Obama can’t sell entitlement cuts to his base, or indeed Democrats in general, without Republicans agreeing to new revenues, and has offered them a straightforward compromise — one that would anger the base on both sides — based on the premise that total victory for the GOP is not an acceptable or realistic outcome.

2) Republican leaders can’t even begin to acknowledge that Obama has offered them a real compromise, because they can’t sell their base on the idea that the President is being flexible, let alone get them to seriously entertain accepting any compromise with him, because the base sees total victory over Obama as the only acceptable outcome.

In essence, a variety of political constraints prevent Republican leaders from acknowledging the reality of the situation. That makes any reality-based dialog impossible. The press has largely failed to reckon with this basic disconnect, which is why the discussion continues to spin its wheels around irrelevant questions, such as whether the president’s outreach is “sincere” enough, as if hurt feelings have anything at all to do with the stalemate, or whether Democrats have gone quite far enough with their offer to Republicans, when the latter won’t even say whether there’s any compromise they could accept.

In his meeting with Republican Senators, Obama reportedly presented them with a choice: They can accept a deal that includes Chained CPI for Social Security and means testing of Medicare in exchange for new revenues, or end up with no entitlement reform. Republicans continue to respond by claiming the President is being inflexible — by pretending he hasn’t offered them what he has offered — while refusing to say what could induce them to compromise.

Ultimately, though, the GOP’s reality-denying strategy is self defeating, and will make it harder for Republicans to agree to a way out of the impasse. In addition to refusing to acknowledge what Obama has offered on entitlements, Republican leaders also continue to refuse to acknowledge all the spending cuts ($1.5 trillion in 2011) Obama and Dems have already agreed to. This is partly because admitting to all of this would reveal the GOP’s own intransigence to the public with too much clarity. But there’s another reason for it, which is aptly spelled out by Steve Kornacki. John Boehner can’t admit to any of it for his own self-interested political reasons:

When it comes to Obama’s current quest for a grand bargain, there’s really nothing for Boehner to do but repeat the right’s familiar attacks on Obama for always wanting to raise taxes and never wanting to cut spending. Never mind, of course, that Obama has already signed off on $2.5 trillion in deficit reduction and is seeking $1.2 trillion more with his grand bargain crusade, and that most of that money is from spending cuts. Acknowledging that would destroy whatever credibility Boehner now has with the conservative base, and make it impossible for him to push any kind of deal through the House without being dethroned. So he bashes away, pretends the problem is Obama’s inflexible liberalism and waits. What the end-game is is unclear.

Keeping the base in the dark about the offer Obama has actually made and the spending cuts Obama has already agreed to will only make it harder to get conservatives to accept a deal later. Which is why it’s looking more and more like we’re stuck in a position where sequestration will drag on and on and we’ll lurch from one “continuing resolution” to the next and from one crisis (debt ceiling, anyone?) to another. Republicans will gamely claim the sequester is a “victory” for them, but in truth, being the party of austerity-only-and-forever and crisis-to-crisis governing is not a sustainable long term posture.

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If you dispute the numbers please go here:

http://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insurance/healthcare/reference-materials/#url=FEHB-Handbook

Read 'em and weep. All these are not government owned policies but private policies offered to current and retired federal employees.

joecct you didn't mention this part:

"Government's Share
The Government's share of premiums paid is set by law. Amendments to the FEHB law under the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 (Public Law 105-33, approved August 5, 1997) authorized a new formula for calculating the Government contribution effective with the contract year that begins in January 1999. This formula is known as the "Fair Share" formula because it will maintain a consistent level of Government contributions, as a percentage of total program costs, regardless of which health plan enrollees elect.

For most employees and annuitants, the Government contribution equals the lesser of: (1) 72 percent of amounts OPM determines are the program-wide weighted average of premiums in effect each year, for Self Only and for Self and Family enrollments, respectively, or (2) 75 percent of the total premium for the particular plan an enrollee selects."

The govt is always paying 75% of the plan, even if the costs go up. Under Paul Ryan, you get the same amount and if premiums go up that's your problem. A BIG difference but that's how Ryan tries to save money.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 2 - Amensty for Some, Miniature AR-15s for Others...

joecct you didn't mention this part:

"Government's Share
The Government's share of premiums paid is set by law. Amendments to the FEHB law under the Balanced Budget Act of 1997 (Public Law 105-33, approved August 5, 1997) authorized a new formula for calculating the Government contribution effective with the contract year that begins in January 1999. This formula is known as the "Fair Share" formula because it will maintain a consistent level of Government contributions, as a percentage of total program costs, regardless of which health plan enrollees elect.

For most employees and annuitants, the Government contribution equals the lesser of: (1) 72 percent of amounts OPM determines are the program-wide weighted average of premiums in effect each year, for Self Only and for Self and Family enrollments, respectively, or (2) 75 percent of the total premium for the particular plan an enrollee selects."

The govt is always paying 75% of the plan, even if the costs go up. Under Paul Ryan, you get the same amount and if premiums go up that's your problem. A BIG difference but that's how Ryan tries to save money.
I know, but I pay the same for my health insurance (family - wife & I) as my 26 year old son (family - he & spouse). It's a group plan (Aetna) and the risks are spread out over the entire pool.
 
I know, but I pay the same for my health insurance (family - wife & I) as my 26 year old son (family - he & spouse). It's a group plan (Aetna) and the risks are spread out over the entire pool.

You do understand that absent regulations, insurance pools will self-select to exclude older persons, or otherwise leave them in more expensive pools, right?

Otherwise you make the classic arguement for single payer insurance. The pool is the size of the entire country.
 
You do understand that absent regulations, insurance pools will self-select to exclude older persons, or otherwise leave them in more expensive pools, right?

Otherwise you make the classic arguement for single payer insurance. The pool is the size of the entire country.

I was wondering if joecct was advocating single payer.
 
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