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The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

unofan said:
It should've never been lowered in the first place without a concurrent cut in benefits.
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cut in soc sec benefit?? according to rover there is no lock box, that is general revenue.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

mookie1995 said:
cut in soc sec benefit?? according to rover there is no lock box, that is general revenue.
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Nice platitude. Still doesn't make my statement any less true. Perhaps I should've said "concurrent cut in spending," but the intent is the same nonetheless.

If the House farks this up, the GOP is going to lose the house in two years notwithstanding the gerrymandering they accomplished 2 years ago. Boehner will probably bring it to a vote as he pledged to do, and it will probably pass with majority democrat support. But I'm not completely ruling out the possibility that Cantor and the Tea Party farkwads scuttle the whole thing.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Look at it this way - you just lost 2% of the first $110K or so of your take home pay. That means you have 2% less to spend. If you want to kick the economy into a higher gear, cutting take home pay is, IMO, not a good way to do it.

However, I agree that the payroll tax should never have been cut in the first place. But the group of baboons did and now they need more revenue (but SS is supposed to be sequestered, right??? :) )

It will be interesting what the House (100% up for reelection in 2014) does. Without meaningful spending cuts, the tax increase will amount to trying to stop a forest fire by urinating on the trees.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

dxmnkd316 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/02/u...y-obama-squandered-his-tax-leverage.html?_r=0

You can't make this up. The Republicans are questioning Boehner and the Libs are questioning Obama. I think we can all agree that the deal was a good one for all of us if both sides hate it.
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And yet, as of now, Obama delivered his party and even McConnell got the senate GOP in line. It remains to be seen if Boehner will deliver enough of his to get this done.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Its a done deal. The Boner turtled up on adding spending cuts and as usual the Dems did the heavy lifting the pass the bill. Gotta be pretty humiliated if you're a knuckledragger right now. Not only are revenues going up, but your own party voted for it! Funny, because I thought Grover Norquist was some sort of kingmaker and the Neo-Contartist Kingdom on Earth was right around the corner. What gives guys?
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Rover said:
Its a done deal. The Boner turtled up on adding spending cuts and as usual the Dems did the heavy lifting the pass the bill. Gotta be pretty humiliated if you're a knuckledragger right now. Not only are revenues going up, but your own party voted for it! Funny, because I thought Grover Norquist was some sort of kingmaker and the Neo-Contartist Kingdom on Earth was right around the corner. What gives guys?
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I think you should take off your blue-tinted glasses...
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

dxmnkd316 said:
I think you should take off your blue-tinted glasses...
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Only 85 GOP votes. Boehner's likely done as speaker since he broke the Hastert Rule even though he is remarkably one of the sane ones left on that side of the aisle.

Also shows how broken the House is at the moment given that something that passed with bipartisan Senate support couldn't get more than about 1/3rd of the GOP house onboard. Hurray for gerrymandering. We've got eight more years of this shiat.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Rover said:
Its a done deal. The Boner turtled up on adding spending cuts and as usual the Dems did the heavy lifting the pass the bill. Gotta be pretty humiliated if you're a knuckledragger right now. Not only are revenues going up, but your own party voted for it! Funny, because I thought Grover Norquist was some sort of kingmaker and the Neo-Contartist Kingdom on Earth was right around the corner. What gives guys?
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Still no meaningful (I mean FY 2013 or 2014) spending cuts. Don't give me these 10 year totals. We need cuts now.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

joecct said:
Still no meaningful (I mean FY 2013 or 2014) spending cuts. Don't give me these 10 year totals. We need cuts now.
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We get to do this all over again in 2 months when the Tea Party holds the debt ceiling hostage yet again, and likely with Cantor as speaker rather than Boehner...

Edit: Oh, and the corporate sector likes the deal. Markets are up worldwide following the vote.

Edit 2: And there are some needed things in there regardless of party. For instance, the AMT is finally fixed and indexed for inflation permanently (which has been an annual issue for 25 freaking years), and the part of the farm bill that would've reverted to a 1940s price index, thereby leading to $8/gal milk, was fixed as well.
 
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Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Apparently the tax brackets are no longer indexed to inflation. Bracket Creep is back for the first time since 1984.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Gov'ment can't calculate inflation right anyhows :p

The repubs made me chuckle going on and on about how THIS is now the cap/limit on what the gov can take in revenue and how they are glad it's been decided and voted on. Also how this now has the dems validating the bush tax cuts by making them permanent --- and lastly how they were glad to vote for it because it was a tax cut when everyone just got a 2% tax increase on their first 115k of income... Hardly progressive ;)
 
joecct said:
Still no meaningful (I mean FY 2013 or 2014) spending cuts. Don't give me these 10 year totals. We need cuts now.
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I agree, to a point. We need cuts, but not to send us into a second, UK type downward spiral. Austerity in Britain has been a disaster.

So, Dems managed to get rates raised with few spending cuts. Now some would argue that would have happened anyway, but unemployment extension wouldn't have, nor would have cleaning up the AMT or the doc fix. This, coupled with the expiration of the payroll tax (which needed to happen) raises most of the necessary revenues.

Regarding spending cuts, I expect a deal in the coming months to trade off broading the tax base by reforming the tax code + getting rid of special interest crap like oil and agricultural tax breaks perfectly offset by a 50/50 split on the sequester between defense and discretionary spending, plus another 500Bn in entitlement reductions (chained CPI, etc).

At the end of the day, that should give a pretty even distribution between tax hikes and spending cuts. Now some knucks' may try to argue that this gives the Republicans leverage, which is hilarious. The Boner isn't hanging on by a thread because he suddenly has more leverage. In fact the American people has thoroughly rejected the notion of massive cuts to Medicare and Social Security. If they hadn't we'd be inaugurating President Romney shortly. Start screwing with the debt ceiling again and corporate interests who fund the GOP are going to raise holy hell.

PS - The civil war amongst the GOP that all of this is inciting? Icing on the cake! ;) :D
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Happy New Year, ladies! I told you all months ago that you could quit paying any attention to the "fiscal cliff" because there could be no doubt the can would be kicked down the road again re: controlling the deficit.
I'm here to apologize, the "solution" our brilliant leaders came up with was much, much worse than doing nothing, or kicking the can, would have been: We're now an ADDITIONAL $4 Trillion in debt over a decade, compared to the meager $20 Trillion or so we would have been without this horrible deal that was struck in the name of "doing something."
I guess it was predictable, but not in a good way. Doing something disastrous to destroy our country is deemed more politically expedient than doing nothing and preserving a shred of hope in the future. I don't see how the country has a chance to survive this era of blind-leading-the-blind government. What a mess.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

geezer said:
Happy New Year, ladies! I told you all months ago that you could quit paying any attention to the "fiscal cliff" because there could be no doubt the can would be kicked down the road again re: controlling the deficit.
I'm here to apologize, the "solution" our brilliant leaders came up with was much, much worse than doing nothing, or kicking the can, would have been: We're now an ADDITIONAL $4 Trillion in debt over a decade, compared to the meager $20 Trillion or so we would have been without this horrible deal that was struck in the name of "doing something."
I guess it was predictable, but not in a good way. Doing something disastrous to destroy our country is deemed more politically expedient than doing nothing and preserving a shred of hope in the future. I don't see how the country has a chance to survive this era of blind-leading-the-blind government. What a mess.
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The Boomers are still in charge. Their sole mission in life has been to suck every single dollar out of the United States and to die leaving nothing left. Mission accomplished.
 
geezer said:
We're now an ADDITIONAL $4 Trillion in debt over a decade.
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Not really. It's only an additional 4 trillion if you count the less than 24 hours we went over the cliff as the baseline. If you ignore that, it's an essentially status quo budget or even one with a bit of deficit reduction.

The CBO admits up front that the figure, while technically correct from a certain perspective, is highly misleading.
 
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unofan said:
Not really. It's only an additional 4 trillion if you count the less than 24 hours we went over the cliff as the baseline. If you ignore that, it's an essentially status quo budget or even one with a bit of deficit reduction.

The CBO admits up front that the figure, while technically correct from a certain perspective, is highly misleading.
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Expecting geezer to make sense is like expecting The Boner to stop crying in public. Not gonna happen!

Interesting since there's rumblings of a palace coup right now in the House, especially since the idiot's leadership team voted against the deal. No wonder the Speaker didn't come out and give some remarks after the vote. He was probably unable to compose himself long enough.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

unofan said:
Not really. It's only an additional 4 trillion if you count the less than 24 hours we went over the cliff as the baseline. If you ignore that, it's an essentially status quo budget or even one with a bit of deficit reduction.

The CBO admits up front that the figure, while technically correct from a certain perspective, is highly misleading.
Click to expand...

oh, I did not realize that. So it is essentially another can kick, as expected. What does that mean, continued $1T deficits in perpetuity?
yay.
U. S. A.
U. S. A.
 
Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

geezer said:
oh, I did not realize that. So it is essentially another can kick, as expected. What does that mean, continued $1T deficits in perpetuity?
yay.
U. S. A.
U. S. A.
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Yay, Boomers get all of it, Boomers get all of it.

Leaving the rest of us with nothing.
 
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