The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

[freak]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I agree that NCAA programs should contribute to the advancement of European hockey. But simply recruiting European players is not enough. Rules be d**ned...rules are just the tools of the powerful to keep out the weak. After all, the big Wall Street banks support increased regulation not out of some social consciousness, but because they hope the costs of compliance will drive their smaller competitors out of business.

So what else should the NCAA do?

First of all, European players should be exempt from committing penalties. This will serve to increase their ice time, and result in more scoring opportunities. It would also look good from the perspective of Patty Kaz selections.

Further, all posts and crossbars hit by european players should count as goals. After all, the imperial system is discriminatory to players who grew up with the metric system. They might confuse the 6' width of the goal for 2 meters, and think they have more space to shoot at than they do. Canadians, however, are too good already to deserve such consideration. This will result in more scoring from European players, which will play favorably back home with young girls, encouraging more to join the sport.

Lastly, European players should receive an assist on all goals which they did not score themselves, even if they are on the bench. After all, if they weren't on the bench, they would be on the ice. And that could possibly have prevented the other player from scoring. Therefore, the simple fact that they were on the bench contributed directly to other player's goal. Again, this would increase scoring from European players, which would improve visibility and popularity of the sport back home.

Thoughts?

 

[RStarr]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I had taken a quaalude or something.

druggie. thanks for sharing with the rest of us.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Huh . I thought you were on my side on this one.....
...or am I simply not able to follow your logic.

Fix your sarcasm detector.

 

[RStarr]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Thoughts?

Red is bad for people who are colorblind. Way to discriminate.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

To grow the sport of hockey internationally.

Not the responsibility nor job of an NCAA coach. Try again..

I brought up the concept of getting players over here. The funding model would have to be worked out, but it could be a pooled fund from the NCAA or maybe better yet out of USA Hockey.

Either way, the NCAA would benefit. A bigger player pool of talent to select from.

The scouting of the younger players and bringing them over should be done via an independent group, headed by women who have played the game at a high level, preferably including those from overseas.

The identified talent could be brought over here once they are 15/16 as part of summer development camps/showcase events, with options to be placed in Prep Schools, or have them tour as a team during various occasions in the winter. Either way, there are many options to make this work. The ultimate goal is to grow the game internationally by identifying and developing the young talent over there. The best way to do this is to expose them to the game over here, cause the level over here (Canada and the USA) is so much higher and deeper.

I was just bringing up some off the cuff sugggestions. Many ways to work it, but at least do something.

Good to hear from one of the posters about the impending Russian Investments as part of the road to Sochi. Lets keep working the China and Chech/Slovak angle. Maybe we should have the 2018 winter games in China. Now that would lead to a higher quality Chinese team in a hurry.

 

[ARM]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I brought up the concept of getting players over here. The funding model would have to be worked out, but it could be a pooled fund from the NCAA or maybe better yet out of USA Hockey.

Either way, the NCAA would benefit.

If you are primarily a hockey fan, you may not have an accurate understanding of the words "NCAA" and "benefit" used in the same sentence. In the beginning, maybe such altruistic ideals would have applied. Today, a clearer picture might be: picture a giant football; add a great big basketball, that says "men's college basketball"; include many, many dollar signs; you may include small icons for all other sports, but use invisible ink because the NCAA really won't want to be bothered with those details. Remember this picture when pitching your idea to the NCAA.

It seems like a conflict of interest for USA Hockey. Why would it take funds from its members to bring players here to compete for prep/college spots that are essentially the development systems for its future players?

Maybe the IIHF or the NHL would like your idea, but you might be better off looking for some corporation to bankroll this plan.

 

[DC78-82]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

So, yeah....you're post sounds all warm and fuzzy but its really not that cut and dry. We are talking about Olympic hockey....and while the NCAA is closely related, its just not the same thing. And unfortunately, the IOC may not have the patience that we have. I can wait 30 years (though IMO it shouldn't take that long). The IOC has a hard time waiting 5 years.

Progress and improvements in the women's games are happening more and more quickly, as I inferred in the informal timeline in my post. We will not have to wait 10 or 20 years to see huge advances in talent across the board. Look at how quickly Syracuse has become a competent team. How long was Wisco a team before they became champions? UMD? Foreign players are on the rosters of more and more NCAA teams, and taking a leave of absence from those teams to play for their country when called upon, so yes, there is a close relationship between what happens in the college ranks and the national teams.

Even at the Olympic level, women's hockey has made a lot of progress. Finland and Sweden didn't show well in 1998, but look what has happened since then. Can they beat the Canadians or the USA every time? OF course not, but USA and Canada can't beat each other every time either. Or Finland and Sweden.

The youth in this sport has more and better instruction at a far younger age, and are still pushing the older players to keep up or get out. More girls are playing, and the talent pool just keeps growing. Look at the 15 year old goalie Russia played yesterday. She might not be ready now, but there's a good chance she will learn a lot in Vancouver and beyond.

The IOC doesn't have to wait 5 years to see improvement - there's an Olympics every 4.

I just ate breakfast....I think I threw up a little in my mouth.

Looks like we gotta situation.

So swallow already

 

[DC78-82]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

No, I didn't. I said there's less talent over there. i also said it's not a college coach's job to grow the sport, but to win games. Taking those assertions together, if you can recruit 3 players from North America for the same amount of money as it takes to find one from Europe, then take a guess as to where that money's going.

You're the one saying recruiting from Europe needs to happen, and fast. So for the third time, I'll ask the simple question. Why?

To quote a college coach I know "I'm going to find the best available players, wherever they are, and try to get get them to play at this school."

Remember our Scotty!

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Sit back, enjoy the ride, and if you don't want to see an early preliminary round blow out, watch HGTV until the semi finals. One of these Olympiads, you're going to miss some good games

Okay, so I'm laughing now, and feeling a little sorry for IceIsNice. Make one post dissing Olympic hockey, and you find yourself watching HGTV (not that there's anything wrong with that -- I mean who doesn't tune in to "Designed on a Dime"?)

Making my evening plans....what time is this on?

Or do I dance around my living room in blue and yellow and hope for the next "miracle"?

 

[OnMAA]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

If you are primarily a hockey fan, you may not have an accurate understanding of the words "NCAA" and "benefit" used in the same sentence. In the beginning, maybe such altruistic ideals would have applied. Today, a clearer picture might be: picture a giant football; add a great big basketball, that says "men's college basketball"; include many, many dollar signs; you may include small icons for all other sports, but use invisible ink because the NCAA really won't want to be bothered with those details. Remember this picture when pitching your idea to the NCAA.

It seems like a conflict of interest for USA Hockey. Why would it take funds from its members to bring players here to compete for prep/college spots that are essentially the development systems for its future players?

Maybe the IIHF or the NHL would like your idea, but you might be better off looking for some corporation to bankroll this plan.

Good points. My point remains this. The hockey powers to be in both the US and Canada should help the other countries to develop their game. Some of this already takes place today. My suggestions were to spur a discussion on what more can we do.

You need to start at the grass roots, the younger ages, cause that is the Future. Bottom line is do it first in countries where the hockey infrastructure already exists on the Mens side, lowest cost and best chance for good earlier returns on the investment.

 

[capitalist]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I recently heard interviews with N Darwitz (radio) and J Potter (TV). Both made a point to mention as often as possible that International Hockey was the highest level of women's hockey in the world.

Imagine taking the Yankees and Red Sox, giving them all resources possible to assemble their teams, and then putting them in a AA league with Pawtucket and the New Britain Rock Cats, etc. What would you call the highest level of baseball? The MLB or the AA league with the two best teams in the world plus a bunch of AA teams?

My daughter is immersed in hockey up to her eyeballs. I'm along for the bumpy and very expensive ride. I guess I could name 35 of the top 40 or so players her age in the state of Minnesota (if not by name then by # and affiliation). She knows lots of the girls and I know lots of their parents. I don't know any kid who is motivated to play and improve by the existence of International hockey. They give up soccer and pursue hockey year-round when they're 11, attend OS and CODP and play AAA with the idea of making their HS teams and excelling. Then maybe later they become aware that there are college scholarships available and start working out on their own and shooting 500 pucks a day and maybe advance to FHIT with an eye on playing D1 hockey.

So you want to give American dollars for American scholarships and precious spots on American D1 College teams to Eastern Europeans just so that Olympic hockey doesn't suck? Am I missing something or are you just yanking my chain?

 

[ARM]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

You need to start at the grass roots, the younger ages, cause that is the Future.

I don't know that the best approach is to pluck the top kids out of these countries at a young age. Minnesota HS hockey remains a viable option because the majority of the good players continue to play for their HS teams. If they all left to play prep, club, junior, or whatever, the talent pool and competition would get watered down. To grow a broader base for a sport, encourage participation and access to the game for a greater number, don't just advance an elite few.

As for Russia, my question remains -- what is stopping them from growing the women's game themselves? They have the resources (rinks), they have the knowledge, they have the talent pool of girls who learn to skate. It is okay for young girls to grow up to be figure skaters, and tennis players, and biatheletes, and weightlifters -- so why don't they let their daughters play hockey? I realize that economics can be limiting, but over the decades, many, many kids have become great hockey players w/o spending thousands of dollars. I can't imagine that every Russian NHL player we see was born into wealth.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Good points. My point remains this. The hockey powers to be in both the US and Canada should help the other countries to develop their game. Some of this already takes place today. My suggestions were to spur a discussion on what more can we do.

You need to start at the grass roots, the younger ages, cause that is the Future. Bottom line is do it first in countries where the hockey infrastructure already exists on the Mens side, lowest cost and best chance for good earlier returns on the investment.

I think the mechanism here (at least in NE) may already be in place. There has been a steady trickle of European players coming through Prep hockey with the specific aim of playing US college hockey.

When they get these rinks in China full of young kids who age up to prep school age, they will be applying in droves to all of the top NE prep schools. They are starting to learn that admission to a prep school can be based upon something other than a test score.

And when they get here, they will work hard and achieve well.

And the prep schools will be happy to fill their hockey rosters with full-pay internationals rather than dicker with the local hockey parents.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

I don't know that the best approach is to pluck the top kids out of these countries at a young age. Minnesota HS hockey remains a viable option because the majority of the good players continue to play for their HS teams. If they all left to play prep, club, junior, or whatever, the talent pool and competition would get watered down. To grow a broader base for a sport, encourage participation and access to the game for a greater number, don't just advance an elite few.

As for Russia, my question remains -- what is stopping them from growing the women's game themselves? They have the resources (rinks), they have the knowledge, they have the talent pool of girls who learn to skate. It is okay for young girls to grow up to be figure skaters, and tennis players, and biatheletes, and weightlifters -- so why don't they let their daughters play hockey? I realize that economics can be limiting, but over the decades, many, many kids have become great hockey players w/o spending thousands of dollars. I can't imagine that every Russian NHL player we see was born into wealth.

The old Soviet Hockey Machine was basically funded by the state via the Army. Boys grew up to aspire to be part of the Red Machine, as it was a way to be part of the elite in Russia. It's akin to the lads from the Hood playing Hoops making it to the NBA (or NCAA), their ticket to get out of the getto.

Once the Soviet empire fell, the Russian hockey development as a whole fell into disarray for many years. It is only in recent years with folks like Tretiak and Fetisov in charge, that the Russians are getting their mojo back at the elitest level as a national team. A lot of the league over there is funded by dark money. Problem is no one will invest into the womens game from those circles, so the money has to come from other sources.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

So you want to give American dollars for American scholarships and precious spots on American D1 College teams to Eastern Europeans just so that Olympic hockey doesn't suck? Am I missing something or are you just yanking my chain?

You are missing one important fact. If there was no Olympic level womens hockey you would not have the same amount of D1 and D3 college hockey today.

About 40-45% of the D1 spots are already taken by Canadian kids. I'd suggest some of those would start to go to International kids. The fallout Canadians do have good options available back home.

P.S....My roots are from Europe, and the first exposure to hockey I had as a kid was the Russians, Swedes, Chechs and Finns battling it out in Sapporo. Watched every game of the Worlds every year on the tube. Never even knew the Canadians and Americans played hockey back then, as they were a non factor in international events at the time (NHLers did not participate). Did not know about the existence of the NHL until years later after moving to Canada.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

You are missing one important fact. If there was no Olympic level womens hockey you would not have the same amount of D1 and D3 college hockey today.

About 40-45% of the D1 spots are already taken by Canadian kids. I'd suggest some of those would start to go to International kids. The fallout Canadians do have good options available back home.

That many eh...

 

[RStarr]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

You are missing one important fact. If there was no Olympic level womens hockey you would not have the same amount of D1 and D3 college hockey today.

About 40-45% of the D1 spots are already taken by Canadian kids. I'd suggest some of those would start to go to International kids. The fallout Canadians do have good options available back home.

P.S....My roots are from Europe, and the first exposure to hockey I had as a kid was the Russians, Swedes, Chechs and Finns battling it out in Sapporo. Watched every game of the Worlds every year on the tube. Never even knew the Canadians and Americans played hockey back then, as they were a non factor in international events at the time (NHLers did not participate). Did not know about the existence of the NHL until years later after moving to Canada.

owned.

 

[IceIsNice]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Hey, whaddya know.... "Manswers" is on Spike tonight! I'm all set!

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Anyways....The Canadian Women's team is back on the ice today at 2:30PST vs the Tre Kroner. Almost hate to ask for predictions ...so what do the Swedes have..any game?

Sure hope FranchisePlayer sees this so doesn't miss the game...I'm worried for him. If, for some strange reason it ends up 8-0 for Canada we'll need to get him a Karnac hat!

 

[RStarr]

Re: The 2010 Winter Olympics Women's Ice Hockey Tournament

Anyways....The Canadian Women's team is back on the ice today at 2:30PST...so what do the Swedes have..any game?

4-1 Red