The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The economic impact of cap and trade for sulfur dioxide was a miniscule fraction of the impact cap and trade for carbon would have. Bad comparison. Not to mention the different "polluting" characteristics of the two. Using this logic, we should do cap and trades for everything.

Well, yeah, if we want market based solutions, which I thought we did (at least according to everyone who's calling Obama a socialist). The entire point of cap-and-trade schemes is to monetize externalities so that the impact of the externalities is accounted for in the market. The fact that it worked on a smaller scale should embolden all free market proponents to encourage its use on bigger issues.

Guess we should all stop breathing then, as we're wasting the carbon dioxide we breathe out. Emissions aren't necessarily waste. Waste entails the concept of something that could be useful for some purpose but is not captured for that purpose.

My my, aren't we being pedantic this morning. Too bad that definition doesn't work for phrases like nuclear waste (much of which is so unusable we want to bury it in solid rock for 10,000 years) or the ever popular euphamism, waste management (aka, garbagemen).

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

We should strip out all the regulations for nuclear power, coal, natural gas, wind, etc. etc. Then we could have real market forces between energy sources for generating electricity. A little nuclear waste in downtown Philadelphia isn't going to hurt anything.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Well, yeah, if we want market based solutions, which I thought we did (at least according to everyone who's calling Obama a socialist). The entire point of cap-and-trade schemes is to monetize externalities so that the impact of the externalities is accounted for in the market. The fact that it worked on a smaller scale should embolden all free market proponents to encourage its use on bigger issues.

My my, aren't we being pedantic this morning. Too bad that definition doesn't work for phrases like nuclear waste (much of which is so unusable we want to bury it in solid rock for 10,000 years) or the ever popular euphamism, waste management (aka, garbagemen).

Not pedantic, just saying that calling it waste is inaccurate, or to be very generous is a far from complete way to describe it, and this is the type of spinning and misinformation that's way too common in pushing this kind of stuff.

So, market-based solutions for all in your book. Not that there's necessarily a logical connection between one working and therefore the other would work, but hey, if it works in one place, it should work everywhere else. Thankfully even the feds aren't quite this bad.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

While everyone tries to beat each other bloody belittling the other side's intellect no one seems to want to realize that the country is split about 50/50 per side.

Kinda hard to do anything when certain people believe compromise is a dirty word.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Too bad that definition doesn't work for phrases like nuclear waste (much of which is so unusable we want to bury it in solid rock for 10,000 years) or the ever popular euphamism, waste management (aka, garbagemen).

Nuclear energy's future could very well be this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium - generates far less waste, is safer, and it's harder to generate weapons-grade material. Win-win-win.

 

[Plante26]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

We should strip out all the regulations for nuclear power, coal, natural gas, wind, etc. etc. Then we could have real market forces between energy sources for generating electricity. A little nuclear waste in downtown Philadelphia isn't going to hurt anything.

It IS only Philadelphia.....

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

We should strip out all the regulations for nuclear power, coal, natural gas, wind, etc. etc. Then we could have real market forces between energy sources for generating electricity. A little nuclear waste in downtown Philadelphia isn't going to hurt anything.

Ordinarily I'd consider this satire, but there's really nothing to argue with the last sentence.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Kinda hard to do anything when certain people believe compromise is a dirty word.

Yup. In this country it's bad for people to stand by their principles. Terrible concept I hope never sees the light of day again.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Yup. In this country it's bad for people to stand by their principles. Terrible concept I hope never sees the light of day again.

If you're principles include driving the US into default through being an uncompromising ****tard then there is something wrong with your principles.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Ordinarily I'd consider this satire, but there's really nothing to argue with the last sentence.

The energy companies can buy foreclosed properties and store it there. We could solve the nuclear waste *and* the housing market problems at the same time!

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Yup. In this country it's bad for people to stand by their principles. Terrible concept I hope never sees the light of day again.

Well, that's one vote for civil war over democracy.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Well, that's one vote for civil war over democracy.

The South should have won.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The energy companies can buy foreclosed properties and store it there. We could solve the nuclear waste *and* the housing market problems at the same time!

Can't we just give them Wisconsin?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Well, that's one vote for civil war over democracy.

Again, bad on principles. Bad. Bad.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

The South should have won.

Hyperbole much?

My point is - is that really what Bob meant? Doubtful.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Yup. In this country it's bad for people to stand by their principles. Terrible concept I hope never sees the light of day again.

Ah yes, I remember reading about the Great Principle that created the US government as we know it.

The problem was referred to a committee consisting of one delegate from each State to reach a compromise. On July 5, the committee submitted its report, which became the basis for the “Great Compromise" of the Convention. The report recommended that in the upper house each State should have an equal vote and in the lower house, each State should have one representative for every 40,000 inhabitants, counting slaves as three-fifths of an inhabitant, and that money bills should originate in the lower house (not subject to amendment by the upper chamber).

After six weeks of tumult, North Carolina switched its vote to equal representation and Massachusetts abstained, and a compromise was reached, being called the "Great Compromise." In the "Great Compromise", every state was given equal representation, previously known as the New Jersey Plan, in one house of Congress, and proportional representation, known before as the Virginia Plan, in the other. In the Senate, every state would have two seats. In the House of Representatives, the number of seats would depend on population. Because it was considered more responsive to majority sentiment, the House of Representatives was given the power to originate all legislation dealing with the federal budget and revenues/taxation.

When, on July 12, the motion of Gouverneur Morris of Pennsylvania that direct taxation should also be in proportion to representation was adopted, the crisis had been successfully surmounted. A compromise spirit began to prevail; however, the small States were not willing to support a strong national government.

The Great Compromise ended the rift between the large and small states, and throughout the summer, the delegates worked out numerous other compromises. Some delegates, fearful of giving too much power to the people, argued for indirect election of all federal officials; others wanted as broad an electoral base as possible. Some wanted to exclude the western territories from eventual statehood; others saw the future strength of the nation in the lands beyond the Appalachian Mountains. There were sectional interests to be balanced by the three fifths compromise; differing views to be reconciled on the term, powers, and method of selection of the president; and conflicting ideas on the role of the federal judiciary.

The high quality of the delegates to the convention eased the way to compromise.

Or the Commerce Principle.

Commerce Compromise
Northern interests wanted the government to be able to impose tariffs on goods in order to protect against foreign competition. However, the Southern states feared that tariffs on their goods would hurt the trade upon which they heavily relied. The compromise was for imports to be only allowed on imports from foreign countries and not exports from the US.

Or the Principle that led to how we elect a president.

Election of the President
The Articles of Confederation did not provide for a Chief Executive of the United States. Therefore, when delegates decided that a president was necessary, there was a disagreement over how he or she should be elected to office. While some delegates felt that the president should be popularly elected, others feared that the electorate would not be informed enough to make a wide decision. They came up with other alternatives such as going through each state's Senate to elect the president. In the end, the two sides compromised with the creation of the electoral college. Thus, the citizens vote for electors who then vote for the president.

During our interview, I asked Fraga the kind of dumb question young journalists are given some license to ask.. Senor Fraga handled me patiently, with a gentle history lesson. “Why couldn’t Spain emerge from that war as a democracy,” I asked. He replied: “Do you know how many political parties we had in Spain struggling for power before our terrible war broke out?” Fraga asked; then answered: “More than 30,” he said, answering his own question, “all of them trying to govern, while refus*ing to stay together and compromise, and that weakened us gravely. We gave up on letting the democratic process work in 1936, and that opened us to the terrible civil struggle. When it was young, your nation inherited a wonderful bequest from Great Britain’s great states*men, the gift of political compromise. Your country put the process of compromise to work when you formed your first federal government, and your Founders used it to create consensus in passing and ratifying your great Constitution. America briefly forgot that lesson and you had your own civil war, as we did; but your politicians re*membered it in the healing, and that made you a great nation. The United States became a world economic power because of it. You learned an important lesson: Getting half the loaf is far better than having nothing to eat.”

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Again, principles have no place in our society. We must exterminate them at all costs or who knows what might happen.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Again, principles have no place in our society. We must exterminate them at all costs or who knows what might happen.

That's exactly what I said.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

That's exactly what I said.

Off with their heads, or whatever.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Off with their heads, or whatever.

It'd be interesting to see your version of Cliff's Notes.

You'd probably tell us Tom Robinson was really the killer, the Duke and the King go back to their thrones in Europe and Gatsby lives until a ripe old age.