The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

It's funny that certain.. let's just say conservative posters, like to vanish and only reappear when they think they have some slamdunk talking point.

Hard to be a conservative when Obama's been more conservative than Bush was.

1. Obama's Health Plan was pure conservative Repub. No public option, no universal Health Care. Bush's health plan (Medicare Prescription "D") was the socialistic one.
2. Obama's Libyan war was conservative. Bush's wars were anything but conservative.
3. Obama's stimulus was conservative. Mostly tax cuts instead of government spending and projects. In 2001 the Bush stimulus was that, less tax cuts more stimulus. Obama has cut more taxes than Bush did.

If Obama's a socialist I'm seriously trying to figure out what Bush and Cheney were.

 

[geezer]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Obama's been more conservative than Bush was.

Thanks for backing me up on this. We'll see if you get the same reaction I did.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Hard to be a conservative when Obama's been more conservative than Bush was.

1. Obama's Health Plan was pure conservative Repub. No public option, no universal Health Care. Bush's health plan (Medicare Prescription "D") was the socialistic one.
2. Obama's Libyan war was conservative. Bush's wars were anything but conservative.
3. Obama's stimulus was conservative. Mostly tax cuts instead of government spending and projects. In 2001 the Bush stimulus was that, less tax cuts more stimulus. Obama has cut more taxes than Bush did.

If Obama's a socialist I'm seriously trying to figure out what Bush and Cheney were.

Incompetent.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Thanks for backing me up on this. We'll see if you get the same reaction I did.

I agree completely

 

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Hard to be a conservative when Obama's been more conservative than Bush was.

1. Obama's Health Plan was pure conservative Repub. No public option, no universal Health Care. Bush's health plan (Medicare Prescription "D") was the socialistic one.
2. Obama's Libyan war was conservative. Bush's wars were anything but conservative.
3. Obama's stimulus was conservative. Mostly tax cuts instead of government spending and projects. In 2001 the Bush stimulus was that, less tax cuts more stimulus. Obama has cut more taxes than Bush did.

If Obama's a socialist I'm seriously trying to figure out what Bush and Cheney were.

Mostly tax cuts?!?! Really??!!

And by the way, most of that 'stimulus' in the Bush bill was added because Daschle wouldn't let it pass the senate w/o it.

Final Details of Obama’s 2009 Stimulus Bill

The 1,071-page American Recovery and Reinvestment Act cleared the House Friday 246-183, without any Republican support, and received final passage in the Senate later that night on a 61-37 vote with three Republicans supporting it.

The measure was trimmed from a high of $838 billion to $789 billion in a conference of House and Senate leaders.

Barack Obama signed it into law on Tuesday, February 17. The White House estimates the legislation will save or create 3.5 million jobs over the next two years.

But what’s in the bill?

Tax Relief

About $282 billion of the bill, or 35%, is tax cuts.

Keep drinking that kool aid Scooby. This just reaffirms my belief that you are farther left than Obama.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Hard to be a conservative when Obama's been more conservative than Bush was.

1. Obama's Health Plan was pure conservative Repub. No public option, no universal Health Care. Bush's health plan (Medicare Prescription "D") was the socialistic one.
2. Obama's Libyan war was conservative. Bush's wars were anything but conservative.
3. Obama's stimulus was conservative. Mostly tax cuts instead of government spending and projects. In 2001 the Bush stimulus was that, less tax cuts more stimulus. Obama has cut more taxes than Bush did.

If Obama's a socialist I'm seriously trying to figure out what Bush and Cheney were.

I don't disagree but Obama has stepped it up in Afghanistan and drone attacks in Pakistan, pretty sure thats neocon though

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Incompetent.

Ha, that was succinct.

While everyone tries to beat eachother bloody belittling the other side's intellect no one seems to want to realize that the country is split about 50/50 per side. Maybe some adult should start trying to build a consensus on something? If I could draw I would make a cartoon of the 2 sides beating each other into the ground (heads and fists showing above the top of the hole) crying foul to the other side while the masses watch with increasing suffering.

How did we come to a point where it was more important to look for ways for the other side to lose and/or look stupid than it was to actually think up something that works?

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Mostly tax cuts?!?! Really??!!

And by the way, most of that 'stimulus' in the Bush bill was added because Daschle wouldn't let it pass the senate w/o it.


Keep drinking that kool aid Scooby. This just reaffirms my belief that you are farther left than Obama.

Fascinating- the very liberal people I know think he is way too right and the rabid righties I know think he is way too left. Shapeshifter.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

While everyone tries to beat eachother bloody belittling the other side's intellect no one seems to want to realize that the country is split about 50/50 per side.

A 50/50 split is oversimplification. Unfortunately, the lack of more than two major political parties makes this difficult to prove. It doesn't help that people get pigeonholed into one of the parties at a young age, since many children tend to inherit their parents' voting patterns (at least until their college years, when some switch sides, or temporarily become third party moonbats , etc). In fact, I might argue that the average 18 year-old has no business voting until they've had some time outside of the high school bubble to study our country's problems and see the bigger picture - namely that R vs. D is usually like having to choose between a bad case of the flu or a bad case of shingles.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

A 50/50 split is oversimplification. Unfortunately, the lack of more than two major political parties makes this difficult to prove. It doesn't help that people get pigeonholed into one of the parties at a young age, since many children tend to inherit their parents' voting patterns (at least until their college years, when some switch sides, or temporarily become third party moonbats , etc). In fact, I might argue that the average 18 year-old has no business voting until they've had some time outside of the high school bubble to study our country's problems and see the bigger picture - namely that R vs. D is usually like having to choose between a bad case of the flu or a bad case of shingles.

I wan't talking 50/50 party line, I was talking 50/50 opinion on most of the major issues. I think most people at this point have a disgust for both parties but just hate the opposite side more.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Ha, that was succinct.

While everyone tries to beat eachother bloody belittling the other side's intellect no one seems to want to realize that the country is split about 50/50 per side. Maybe some adult should start trying to build a consensus on something? If I could draw I would make a cartoon of the 2 sides beating each other into the ground (heads and fists showing above the top of the hole) crying foul to the other side while the masses watch with increasing suffering.

How did we come to a point where it was more important to look for ways for the other side to lose and/or look stupid than it was to actually think up something that works?

Well, I think it occurred sometime between December 19th, 1998 and December 9th, 2000.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Fascinating- the very liberal people I know think he is way too right and the rabid righties I know think he is way too left. Shapeshifter.

Sounds like the kind of guy who I'd vote for. Someone who is so centrist that he absolutely p*sses off both sides of the aisle. Almost Clintonesque if you ask me.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Fascinating- the very liberal people I know think he is way too right and the rabid righties I know think he is way too left. Shapeshifter.

Any post that claims that Obama is right wing loses credibility out of the gate. I understand the lefties wish he'd done a lot more than he has for the many causes they thought he was going to fix for them, but they were being very unrealistic from the get go to think they'd got most or all of what they expected. I remember talking to a gal I know right after he was elected and when he was throwing out all the stimulus and everything, and she insisted he was going to be able to do all the stimulus and other spending, yet she was also sure he'd balance the budget. There's a lot of unrealistic expectations out there, particularly for someone who had such a feel-good election tale as Obama did.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Any post that claims that Obama is right wing loses credibility out of the gate. I understand the lefties wish he'd done a lot more than he has for the many causes they thought he was going to fix for them, but they were being very unrealistic from the get go to think they'd got most or all of what they expected. I remember talking to a gal I know right after he was elected and when he was throwing out all the stimulus and everything, and she insisted he was going to be able to do all the stimulus and other spending, yet she was also sure he'd balance the budget. There's a lot of unrealistic expectations out there, particularly for someone who had such a feel-good election tale as Obama did.

No credibility? BS. Fact: On major legislation Bush was more socialist than Obama has been.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Any post that claims that Obama is right wing loses credibility out of the gate.

Not "right wing," which is reserved for solidly self-identifying reactionaries, but Obama has certainly governed from the center on a lot issues. He seems maddeningly insistent on keeping up the "not red states or blue states" rhetoric that he began in the 2004 speech that put him on the map. He has been consistent, or in any case as consistent as anybody can be who has to tack one way to win the nomination, another way to win the general, and then another way to get anything done.

He'll go down in history as pure center pragmatist, which means some policies have leaned left and others right. Now it's certainly open to debate whether that centrism is forced upon him by the polarization of the country and the refusal of the GOP to work with him on anything. But I don't think so: he oozes professorial objectivity, and those guys are usually pretty even-handed. It's hard to be an ideologue once you understand that ideologies are fictional universes.

I don't see what any of the excitement is about on either side. Obama is certainly nothing like all the hysterical fears the right had of him -- on almost everything he has carried on Dubya's policies at least in large part. On the other hand the idea that he's some sort of liberal traitor is silly -- look at what he has to work with. I'll have no problem voting for him again -- he is essentially Clinton Redux in a different setting in which he has had to deal with the brutal facts of the prior administration's mismanagement.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

No credibility? BS. Fact: On major legislation Bush was more socialist than Obama has been.

Obamacare. Not that Bush wasn't socialist in some ways also.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Obamacare. Not that Bush wasn't socialist in some ways also.

Medicare Prescription "D", not paid for and a giveaway to seniors.

And Obamacare was strict conservative Repub (Romneycare, it was originally a Republican idea, etc. etc.) The two things that would have made it palatable to liberals (the public option, or universal care) were NOT in the bill.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Not "right wing," which is reserved for solidly self-identifying reactionaries, but Obama has certainly governed from the center on a lot issues. He seems maddeningly insistent on keeping up the "not red states or blue states" rhetoric that he began in the 2004 speech that put him on the map. He has been consistent, or in any case as consistent as anybody can be who has to tack one way to win the nomination, another way to win the general, and then another way to get anything done.

He'll go down in history as pure center pragmatist, which means some policies have leaned left and others right. Now it's certainly open to debate whether that centrism is forced upon him by the polarization of the country and the refusal of the GOP to work with him on anything. But I don't think so: he oozes professorial objectivity, and those guys are usually pretty even-handed. It's hard to be an ideologue once you understand that ideologies are fictional universes.

I don't see what any of the excitement is about on either side. Obama is certainly nothing like all the hysterical fears the right had of him -- on almost everything he has carried on Dubya's policies at least in large part. On the other hand the idea that he's some sort of liberal traitor is silly -- look at what he has to work with. I'll have no problem voting for him again -- he is essentially Clinton Redux in a different setting in which he has had to deal with the brutal facts of the prior administration's mismanagement.

He's a mix, far more than you seem to realize or admit. He's a pragmatist at times, a hard core liberal issue pusher other times. Therefore he's definitely left, but just not as hardcore left on everything as you and other lefties wish. Which it was in the cards he'd never be, just most of you lefties weren't very realistic. He was supposed to be everything in the world after replacing the ogre name Bush.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

Medicare Prescription "D", not paid for and a giveaway to seniors.

And Obamacare was strict conservative Repub (Romneycare, it was originally a Republican idea, etc. etc.) The two things that would have made it palatable to liberals (the public option, or universal care) were NOT in the bill.

Uh, yah. You got me there.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress: Debt ceiling edition

hard core liberal issue pusher other times.

Name one.