The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

How would you define "have" in this case?

Since I have a stable job, stable budget, and can satisfy my needs as well as a few wants with relative ease, I'd consider myself a "have". However, depending on where you put that line, you could very easily classify me as being on the other side of it since I'm not exactly "livin' large".

Not living check to check. If you have no debt, are able to put away 10% of your income every paycheck for retirement, can take a vacation every year, and live comfortably I'd call you a have. Very difficult to do that if you're raising a family by the way. Kids are very expensive.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

There's a million dollar idea - make a ****bot, call it a Palinbot, and build it to her body's specifications.

Guaranteed sales in the millions.

Make it about 15 years younger though.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Not living check to check.

I think this is too arbitrary - even if you're making solid money, you might fall into this category until you've repaid your student loans / paid off your mortgage. I'd redefine it as being able to pay your revolving credit balance each month in full and have at least 25% of your take-home income available after all bills are taken into account (mortgage/rent, groceries, etc). The reason I say 25% is because if you devote most/all of it to forming an emergency reserve, it would only take you 9-12 months to accumulate the necessary 3 months or so of expenses that you should have available "just in case".

If you have no debt, are able to put away 10% of your income every paycheck for retirement, can take a vacation every year, and live comfortably I'd call you a have.

Have no debt? Almost no one would qualify under this definition. Most people have mortgages and car payments, yet they can still set aside 10%, take a vacation, and live comfortably.

Very difficult to do that if you're raising a family by the way. Kids are very expensive.

There's a reason I call them parasites.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

I think this is too arbitrary - even if you're making solid money, you might fall into this category until you've repaid your student loans / paid off your mortgage. I'd redefine it as being able to pay your revolving credit balance each month in full and have at least 25% of your take-home income available after all bills are taken into account (mortgage/rent, groceries, etc). The reason I say 25% is because if you devote most/all of it to forming an emergency reserve, it would only take you 9-12 months to accumulate the necessary 3 months or so of expenses that you should have available "just in case".

Have no debt? Almost no one would qualify under this definition. Most people have mortgages and car payments, yet they can still set aside 10%, take a vacation, and live comfortably.

There's a reason I call them parasites.

I would say you could exclude the mortgage. And if you're able to do everything with a car payment so be it. Living without debt I would call the most important thing you to do to establish wealth and stability in your life. Unfortunately the way the system is set up now it's next to impossible unless you're rich. And that would be my definition of rich by the way, not the one the Feds throw around.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Have no debt? Almost no one would qualify under this definition. Most people have mortgages and car payments, yet they can still set aside 10%, take a vacation, and live comfortably.

If I were defining a Have I would say no debt except a mortgage and student loans (both very "good" debt) and car payments (bad debt, but ubiquitous in our culture).

If you have a rolling balance on a credit card, you're a Have Not.

All other things being equal the wealthy would always vote Republican, the poor would always vote Democratic, and the middle class would split based on local issues. But of course all other things are never equal.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

And I said Bachman polls as well as TPaw who actually is trying to run for higher office. She has made no real overtures.

Eh, we're kind of going around in circles here now, fair enough. I still don't know if I agree with your conclusion about the above though. You seem to think that polling even with TPaw is an accomplishment. I would put forth that it proves the opposite, and is more a testament to how terrible TPaw is than how great Bachmann is, but whatever.

 

[MinnFan]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

I would say you could exclude the mortgage. And if you're able to do everything with a car payment so be it. Living without debt I would call the most important thing you to do to establish wealth and stability in your life. Unfortunately the way the system is set up now it's next to impossible unless you're rich. And that would be my definition of rich by the way, not the one the Feds throw around.

One thing to keep in mind about the "haves" is that they have shown the discipline to spend less than they bring in. How many of the "have nots" have an Iphone, big screen tv, playstation, etc...? I'm certianly not saying that there aren't people who would be poor regardless of their expenditures, but far too many people dig their own grave and I woulnd't lump them in with the "have nots". One of my favorite pictures (and I can't find the link now) was of a lady complaining that the subsidy for her heating bill wasn't covering the full expence anymore. The picture was of her holding up the bills in front of a 55" tv with an xbox and surround sound.

According to your definition I would be a "have". It would be very easy for me to have a lot more toys or take a bunch of vacations, but I don't because I know that its much wiser for me to save that money up for down the road. I by no means make a lot of money, but by sacrificing some things now I should be able to lead a more comfortable life down the road. All that without taking (or expecting anything) from anyone else.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

One thing to keep in mind about the "haves" is that they have shown the discipline to spend less than they bring in. How many of the "have nots" have an Iphone, big screen tv, playstation, etc...? I'm certianly not saying that there aren't people who would be poor regardless of their expenditures, but far too many people dig their own grave and I woulnd't lump them in with the "have nots". One of my favorite pictures (and I can't find the link now) was of a lady complaining that the subsidy for her heating bill wasn't covering the full expence anymore. The picture was of her holding up the bills in front of a 55" tv with an xbox and surround sound.

According to your definition I would be a "have". It would be very easy for me to have a lot more toys or take a bunch of vacations, but I don't because I know that its much wiser for me to save that money up for down the road. I by no means make a lot of money, but by sacrificing some things now I should be able to lead a more comfortable life down the road. All that without taking (or expecting anything) from anyone else.

My favorite people were the ones in CA in the mid 2000's buying ridiculously huge houses (on interest-only ARMs, of course), and then sleeping on mattresses on the floor because they would only be able to afford the furnishings once the value appreciated enough that they could take out that first home equity loan. I assume these people have all become have-nots, and I can't shed a single tear for them. Idiots.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

My favorite people were the ones in CA in the mid 2000's buying ridiculously huge houses (on interest-only ARMs, of course), and then sleeping on mattresses on the floor because they would only be able to afford the furnishings once the value appreciated enough that they could take out that first home equity loan. I assume these people have all become have-nots, and I can't shed a single tear for them. Idiots.

Yeah, there is no question there. When the housing boom happened it was easy for some to get intoxicated by how much wealth they seemed to be accumulating. My house at it's peak was worth 100-150 thousand more than it is now. I fortunately wasn't one of the intoxicated ones. I knew that money was vapor and I stayed in my current house. Despite really wanting to live in something other than what many would consider a starter home, my starter became permanent.

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Yeah, there is no question there. When the housing boom happened it was easy for some to get intoxicated by how much wealth they seemed to be accumulating. My house at it's peak was worth 100-150 thousand more than it is now. I fortunately wasn't one of the intoxicated ones. I knew that money was vapor and I stayed in my current house. Despite really wanting to live in something other than what many would consider a starter home, my starter became permanent.

Whats wrong with a starter home. The trend right now is smaller homes. Mine was 24 by 30 before I got married, its was plenty big enough, I added on a master bed and bath its still 1000 sq feet. 2 beds, 2 baths, man cave, garage, what else do you need. As energy costs go up, a small house is money in the bank. Back in the 50s or 60 the average sq ft was less than 1000 now its way over 2000. No one is happier because of a Mc Mansion

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Whats wrong with a starter home. The trend right now is smaller homes. Mine was 24 by 30 before I got married, its was plenty big enough, I added on a master bed and bath its still 1000 sq feet. 2 beds, 2 baths, man cave, garage, what else do you need. As energy costs go up, a small house is money in the bank. Back in the 50s or 60 the average sq ft was less than 1000 now its way over 2000. No one is happier because of a Mc Mansion

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The house is a bit small for certain things but it works. It's not really what I wanted back in the day but I downshifted. Not really wanting a McMansion either. Like to have another bathroom and a little more space in the current rooms is all. And it's hard to explain but there is no closet for the upstairs bathroom and no where to put one. There are bigger problems in the world for sure.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Whats wrong with a starter home. The trend right now is smaller homes. Mine was 24 by 30 before I got married, its was plenty big enough, I added on a master bed and bath its still 1000 sq feet. 2 beds, 2 baths, man cave, garage, what else do you need. As energy costs go up, a small house is money in the bank. Back in the 50s or 60 the average sq ft was less than 1000 now its way over 2000. No one is happier because of a Mc Mansion

Wondering when people will stop buying those to show they are with the Jones'. They slammed a bunch of them up around here. My first thought (having lived thru the oil thing of the 70's) was why the hell do you want t 2 story foyer- what a waste of space and what a heat loss.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Eh, we're kind of going around in circles here now, fair enough. I still don't know if I agree with your conclusion about the above though. You seem to think that polling even with TPaw is an accomplishment. I would put forth that it proves the opposite, and is more a testament to how terrible TPaw is than how great Bachmann is, but whatever.

It is a matter of perspective...for him it is terrible, for her it is great. For the rest of us...that depends on what part of town you are from

 

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. The house is a bit small for certain things but it works. It's not really what I wanted back in the day but I downshifted. Not really wanting a McMansion either. Like to have another bathroom and a little more space in the current rooms is all. And it's hard to explain but there is no closet for the upstairs bathroom and no where to put one. There are bigger problems in the world for sure.

Unless you build to your desires their will always be issues with house you purchase. Closet space is almost always an issue.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Unless you build to your desires their will always be issues with house you purchase. Closet space is almost always an issue.

True. I'm not that picky though. If I had the space I'd put in a closet, and I don't. We make do.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting interview with our favorite Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann.

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/...t/2011/02/11/id/385824?s=al&promo_code=BAAA-1

Michelle's entire platform appears to be the repeal of Obamacare. I'm not sure where the whole jobs, jobs, jobs thing went but her and Mr. Boehner seem to have forgotten. Anyway Michelle's plan revolves around the Republicans controlling the entire government by electing the next President, holding the House, and taking over the Senate. She says that they will not allow a government shutdown this time around because that is what got Clinton elected the second time.

I also liked this part:

That the president’s plan to spur job creation was nothing more than advocating the 150-year-old technology of trains and windmills and it was not going to move us to high levels of prosperity.

There is no mention in the article about what her plan is for job creation.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

The reason I say 25% is because if you devote most/all of it to forming an emergency reserve, it would only take you 9-12 months to accumulate the necessary 3 months or so of expenses that you should have available "just in case"

Three months? Holy hell. After I close on the house, I'll have about six months reserve and I'm going to increase that to 12 months over the next couple months. I can't imagine anything less than six though.

 

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

True. I'm not that picky though. If I had the space I'd put in a closet, and I don't. We make do.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting interview with our favorite Congresswoman Michelle Bachmann.

http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/...t/2011/02/11/id/385824?s=al&promo_code=BAAA-1

Michelle's entire platform appears to be the repeal of Obamacare. I'm not sure where the whole jobs, jobs, jobs thing went but her and Mr. Boehner seem to have forgotten. Anyway Michelle's plan revolves around the Republicans controlling the entire government by electing the next President, holding the House, and taking over the Senate. She says that they will not allow a government shutdown this time around because that is what got Clinton elected the second time.

I also liked this part:



There is no mention in the article about what her plan is for job creation.

I am so glad she isn't blonde. She would give us a bad name...

 

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Three months? Holy hell. After I close on the house, I'll have about six months reserve and I'm going to increase that to 12 months over the next couple months. I can't imagine anything less than six though.

Three is a good initial target for an emergency reserve since it takes people a long time to build up these accounts.

The actual amount you need depends on your situation. If you have a stable (read: gov't) job, you could probably get away with a smaller one. If you're in a volatile industry, you probably need closer to 12 months in reserve.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Wondering when people will stop buying those to show they are with the Jones'. They slammed a bunch of them up around here. My first thought (having lived thru the oil thing of the 70's) was why the hell do you want t 2 story foyer- what a waste of space and what a heat loss.

It's how you sell a house to idiots who have seen Gone with the Wind. The best part of the McMansions they've thrown up the last 10 years is they're built terribly. When we were looking I asked a builder what those neighborhoods would look like in 20 years and he said "exactly the same -- none of those houses will last 20 years, they'll all be bulldozed and replaced with new ones." The apotheosis of a disposable culture.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - A Congress divided shall not cry!

Three months? Holy hell. After I close on the house, I'll have about six months reserve and I'm going to increase that to 12 months over the next couple months. I can't imagine anything less than six though.

Meh, the wife and I are closing on our first (and god willing, last) house in a month. We'll be "house poor" for a few months - as the down payment's taking a nice chunk of our savings, and buying needed appliances/lawn equipment/fixtures will take what we had left over out the door quickly too.

That said, she's got as stable a job as one can get (public defender) and mine is stable for the next 2 years (judicial clerkship). So we'll build the savings back up fairly quickly. But frankly we'll only keep probably 3 months-worth in liquid savings even after that. The rest will go into IRA's, 401k plans, and mutual funds (and paying down debt quickly - sadly my student loans are first on the block, since their interest rate is higher than both our car loans and our mortgage).