Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

[NMU8405]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

You guys should be able to make your arguments without referencing what you "think" my attitude would be. You have no earthly idea what my attitude would be. Besides, this issue is a tad more important than what one poster on USCHO.com does or does not think.

I haven't even hinted at eliminating security, and if you're honest you'll concede the point. I have suggested, repeatedly, that assuming grannie presents as much of a threat as a dude from Pakistan with an Osama tattoo on his butt, is foolish, unrealistic and an invitation for more attempts. And that we conttinue to focus on the LAST attack rather than the NEXT attack. If this strikes you as a blue print for success, fine. It doesn't me.

Using your logic here, we should fondle everyone. Because the new scanners can't penetrate skin and thus can't pick up explosives in body cavities, does that mean you're okay with making travelers drop their pants and spread 'em? I have asked before and gotten no answer to the question: "Is their anything TSA might propose that crosses the line? Or are we all required to submit, like sheep, to their dictates?"

TSA is now talking about employing scanners on other forms of transportation. Again, your logic would dictate if you don't like it, don't fly, don't take Amtrak, don't take the bus. Just don't. And what's to keep them from randomly stopping drivers to put them through a search? After all, car bombs have been used with lethal effectiveness on many occasions. And you're presumably fine with it. I'm not. This evident willingness to just submit to any indignity imposed by a bunch of bureaucrats, unaccountable in any meaningful sense to the public, makes me uncomfortable. Because this stuff always gets worse, never better.

What if, looking forward, the next attack comes from a middle to elder aged woman, or man. Then what? Or what if someone is dressed as a Nun, but isnt actually. I dont think they pass out badges with IDs that certify you as a nun.

Also, Extremists will ALWAYS be one step ahead of TSA, screening methods. It has to come down how quickly one can adapt, and adopt the new measures. Who honestly would have thought an ink cartridge would be constructed to a bomb. Also, Extremists are alright with a small scale attack, disrupting the economy, slowing everyday life, etc... the next one will not be a 9/11 size attack.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

What if, looking forward, the next attack comes from a middle to elder aged woman, or man. Then what? Or what if someone is dressed as a Nun, but isnt actually. I dont think they pass out badges with IDs that certify you as a nun.

Also, Extremists will ALWAYS be one step ahead of TSA, screening methods. It has to come down how quickly one can adapt, and adopt the new measures. Who honestly would have thought an ink cartridge would be constructed to a bomb. Also, Extremists are alright with a small scale attack, disrupting the economy, slowing everyday life, etc... the next one will not be a 9/11 size attack.

You're making the argument for profiling, whether you realize it or not. I think questioning could pretty easily determine whether a "nun" was a "nun." And the fact that terrorist methods are always one ahead of TSA is another argument for profiling as opposed to more of the same.

You're right about smaller attacks, they've been bragging about the "death of a thousand cuts," I see no reason not to take them seriously. What the toner bombs and how they were shipped mean to me is they're trying to get bombs in the cargo holds of jetliners, thus eliminating the need for suicide bombers--an unreliable and not unlimited resource. Much easier to co-opt some ground based airline employee to sneak a package on board. And that's a whole other area of concern we've not discussed.

And credit where credit is due, when the plot to use liquid explosives was uncovered by the Brits, the new rules about carrying liquids on board were instituted in 12 hours! Pretty impressive, considering the scale of operations. The problem is, that method was never tried here and different methods have been employed. And to be fair, we should differentiate between flights originating here and flights originating elsewhere. Both the shoe bomber and panty bomber got on flights originating elsewhere. On the other hand, there's no reason to believe we would have intercepted them, since we weren't screening shoes and underwear at the time.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

I didn't mention Palin (or Bush, or McCain). I have been reading this thread, so don't **** on my head and tell me it's raining. This has been a political thread from the start. The fact that you don't like my opinions and enjoy calling me names doesn't change that. I haven't made any "cracks" about you (or Palin). Those are observations. If the search feature on here worked and I wanted to spend my Thanksgiving on you, I could look up the times you and friends of your political persuasion have, shall we say questioned the loyalty, of liberals who objected to - for example - a person being arrested and jailed for "threatening" to wear a T-shirt. And now you're complaining about the TSA conducting searches. I wonder, if there is a successful terrorist attack carried out on a plane, would people of your political persuasion complain that the Obama Administration didn't do enough to keep us safe? There is nothing he can do that is the right policy...no matter what he does you are going to complain.

The only winning move is not to play.

Have a nice holiday.

There are plenty of fair minded people who post here who usually (always?) disagree with me. And I'll leave it to them to decide who's being the jerk here. For instance, many of them would conclude you're already "spending your Thanksgiving day on me," since all of your posts today are personal, involving "observations" as opposed to attacks (I guess it depends on what the meaning of "is" is). And none offer any analysis of the topic. As to your hypothetical, I can't tell you what my reaction would be, since it's a hypothetical and I don't know the circumstances. Maybe you're right about my reaction, but maybe you're wrong. Who cares, it's a hypothetical?

As far as that demented rant about previous topics and somebody being arrested and jailed for threatening to weaar a t-shirt is concerned, I have no idea what you're talking about. I believe I've established that I'm a pretty strong believer in the First Amendment and I'm not real big on prior censorship. However, I understand your desire to change the subject and make claims about what I've said in the past or what I would say under certain circumstances. It's interesting, you apparantly follow my posts closely enough to convince yourself you would know my reaction to just about anything. On the other hand, I neither know nor care what your position has been or might be, ever. So what we've got here is you want to bust my chops. Why don't we set up a thread for that purpose? That way the rest of us could actually discuss a very important issue and you could get your jollies, too.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If it's all about safety, and body scanners make us safer, why weren't they in use during one of the busiest travel days of the year?
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

If it's all about safety, and body scanners make us safer, why weren't they in use during one of the busiest travel days of the year?
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/11/newark_liberty_airport_controv.html

Excellent question. I'd heard that in some places the new scanners weren't used. Another frustrating thing about TSA is it seems like the rules are very unevenly enforced, from airport to airport and day to day. I'm sure there were no passenger complaints about being able to pass through the lines relatively quickly with no incidents. Give thanks for that.

 

[NMU8405]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Excellent question. I'd heard that in some places the new scanners weren't used. Another frustrating thing about TSA is it seems like the rules are very unevenly enforced, from airport to airport and day to day. I'm sure there were no passenger complaints about being able to pass through the lines relatively quickly with no incidents. Give thanks for that.

The majority of airports do not use scanners, or even do pat downs. I think the "delays" and "inconvenience" (Not sure what kind of inconvenience not getting blown up is) are overblown.

Also, I used to work for an airline and can say that not all screening is the same at all airports. Its that way for a reason, at least, that what I learned in airline security class and being a ground security cord. at my airport for my old airline.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Excellent question. I'd heard that in some places the new scanners weren't used. Another frustrating thing about TSA is it seems like the rules are very unevenly enforced, from airport to airport and day to day. I'm sure there were no passenger complaints about being able to pass through the lines relatively quickly with no incidents. Give thanks for that.

I couldn't find it, but didn't you have a post in this thread complaining that the current scanning/patting down routine was too predictable, and that we should mix things up so the terrorists can't know what to expect?

I could be mistaken, but I think I remember that, anyway.

 

[walrus]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

The majority of airports do not use scanners, or even do pat downs..

What airports don't use pat downs? Heck they pat down at Bar Harbor airport and they have 30 passengers a day. Also Bar harbor is getting a scanner

 

[Kepler]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Has anybody noticed that sometimes posts read as "#0," though they don't interrupt the number flow of the rest? I think it may have to do with reading Ignored posts.

There is equal hypocrisy on both sides. It's certainly cognitively dissonant when folks with the "Gubmint is Evil" fetish are the government. There would be an equal dissonance for people in the "Government is God" camp when they were out of power. If there were any such people and it wasn't just a strawman.

But it would be exactly equal in that case.

BTW, the Great Patdown Revolt seems to have fizzled faster than Republican opposition to earmarks, though I don't know we should particularly celebrate the demise of either. Blind squirrels and all that.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

You guys should be able to make your arguments without referencing what you "think" my attitude would be. You have no earthly idea what my attitude would be.

Please remember this the next time you are about the post about "the One" and how liberals will just line up with him no matter what.

We now rejoin our scheduled event already in progress.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

flying tomorrow. wearing a skirt. they can feel me up, strip me, search me, whatever, just don't let the plane blow up.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

I couldn't find it, but didn't you have a post in this thread complaining that the current scanning/patting down routine was too predictable, and that we should mix things up so the terrorists can't know what to expect?

I could be mistaken, but I think I remember that, anyway.

Pretty sure that wasn't me. I mean, our plan is to shove everyone into the maw of the TSA, right? As a practical matter, what could we "mix up" anyway? The annecdotal evidence seems to be that TSA is not consistent for things like what you're allowed to have in carry on (or the amount in the case of liquids). I haven't had any experience along those lines, yet. The addition of a well designed program of profiling would, I think, give us a higher level of security.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Please remember this the next time you are about the post about "the One" and how liberals will just line up with him no matter what.

We now rejoin our scheduled event already in progress.

Sure, although since the greatest resistance to his administrtion comes from the left, it's manifestly untrue. Plus, he called himself "the one." Hardly seems fair to preclude me from using it. I beieve I've shown on more than one occasion I'm not a doctrinaire conversative and not any kind of social conservative. But our liberal bretheren continue to rummage around in their bag of prejudices anyway.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

flying tomorrow. wearing a skirt. they can feel me up, strip me, search me, whatever, just don't let the plane blow up.

Seems like a fair exchange. Pictures?

 

[Scott W]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

flying tomorrow. wearing a skirt. they can feel me up, strip me, search me, whatever, just don't let the plane blow up.

Posts like this make me sad. People willing to give up their rights so easily. Have the terrorists won already?

 

[sagard]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

Posts like this make me sad. People willing to give up their rights so easily. Have the terrorists won already?

That sad part is that after the groping, she really isn't any safer by any logical standard.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

That sad part is that after the groping, she really isn't any safer by any logical standard.

You could make the case that the security is not needed or that its inappropriate...but how do really strict security standards like the ones enacted add absolutely no additional security?

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

That sad part is that after the groping, she really isn't any safer by any logical standard.

At least the TSA agent probably feels better after feeling her up, and that's what truly matters.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

At least the TSA agent probably feels better after feeling her up, and that's what truly matters.

Everything should be alright. I don't think the turrists are too concerned with her flight into Ypsilanti.

 

[sagard]

Re: Take a Stand Against Sexual Assault: Resist the TSA

You could make the case that the security is not needed or that its inappropriate...but how do really strict security standards like the ones enacted add absolutely no additional security?

http://www.newser.com/story/40147/tsa-designed-only-to-catch-stupid-terrorists.html