Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
That ain't all I smell. Think he's been bogarting the old peace pipe.
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Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
- Thread starter Red Cows
- Start date
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
Thank you for your free legal advice about our Bill of Rights, but:
1st Amendment Date Proposed: September, 25th 1789 Date Ratified: December 15th, 1791 Contents of the Amendment: This Amendment affords citizens of the United States with the freedom of religion, the freedom of press, the freedom of speech, and the right of assembly.
Suggested reading: The Federalist Papers by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay, and A Time for Truth, by Ted Cruz.
Thank you for your free legal advice about our Bill of Rights, but:
1st Amendment Date Proposed: September, 25th 1789 Date Ratified: December 15th, 1791 Contents of the Amendment: This Amendment affords citizens of the United States with the freedom of religion, the freedom of press, the freedom of speech, and the right of assembly.
Suggested reading: The Federalist Papers by Alexander Hamilton, James Madison, John Jay, and A Time for Truth, by Ted Cruz.
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
It's already started.
http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3818902-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-und
It's already started.
http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/local/3818902-sioux-chants-could-mean-consequences-und
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
When you buy a ticket to a private event, free speech is therefore not applicable.
Just like on here, a private message board, you agree to a set of rules that are dictated in the terms of service.
Box.
When you buy a ticket to a private event, free speech is therefore not applicable.
Just like on here, a private message board, you agree to a set of rules that are dictated in the terms of service.
Box.
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
If you want to understand the First Amendment as it applies to a specific set of facts, read the cases. The rest is just noise.
If you want to understand the First Amendment as it applies to a specific set of facts, read the cases. The rest is just noise.
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Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
You are confusing a State’s contract law with Federal Constitutional law. Read Ted Cruz’s, “A Time for Truth,” or Antonin Scalia’s, “A Matter of Interpretation: Federal Courts and the Law.”
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
No, you are ignoring the "state action" requirement that comes into play before the 1st Amendment can be invoked. That is what Brent is talking about (I think). What Scalia or Cruz or Mickey Mouse have to say about how the 1st A will be applied in any particular situation has no more authority than any other private person's opinion, except that Mr. Mouse probably has more credibility than Mr. Cruz. Scalia or Cruz or Mouse might believe that Roe v. Wade was bad law for any number of reasons and write books about it, but their opinions mean nothing. Until a new case comes along, how the 1st A will affect the outcome of any set of facts is controlled by prior decisions alone. If you have a case to cite in support of your position, that is another matter.
No, you are ignoring the "state action" requirement that comes into play before the 1st Amendment can be invoked. That is what Brent is talking about (I think). What Scalia or Cruz or Mickey Mouse have to say about how the 1st A will be applied in any particular situation has no more authority than any other private person's opinion, except that Mr. Mouse probably has more credibility than Mr. Cruz. Scalia or Cruz or Mouse might believe that Roe v. Wade was bad law for any number of reasons and write books about it, but their opinions mean nothing. Until a new case comes along, how the 1st A will affect the outcome of any set of facts is controlled by prior decisions alone. If you have a case to cite in support of your position, that is another matter.
pokechecker
Banned
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
looks to me like this thread can be shut down
this is true, but many a school board has discovered upon battling it out in court that dictating hair length, skirt length, what appears on a T-shirt .... IS censorship.
and it is true that when we sign up here, we agree to live by the rules, but to my knowledge nobody has ever taken a blog/board to court over being censored, (and who in their right mind would?) but until it has been settled by the Supreme Court, it is open to opinion (some would say that even once the SC has decided it is still open since they can always later rule differently)
looks to me like this thread can be shut down
this is true, but many a school board has discovered upon battling it out in court that dictating hair length, skirt length, what appears on a T-shirt .... IS censorship.
and it is true that when we sign up here, we agree to live by the rules, but to my knowledge nobody has ever taken a blog/board to court over being censored, (and who in their right mind would?) but until it has been settled by the Supreme Court, it is open to opinion (some would say that even once the SC has decided it is still open since they can always later rule differently)
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Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
There is absolutely no question that public schools are state entities and their rules and regulations are therefore subject to the limitations imposed by the 1st Amendment. That is settled law. What Brent suggested (and what appears to have been missed) is that the entity that owns the Ralph may not be a state actor. Roma's comment differentiating a state contract with constitutional law missed the point--that's all I'm saying. A state contract can have enforceable 1st Amendment issues. It appears as if he doesn't understand the threshold state action component of Bill of Rights issues.
There is absolutely no question that public schools are state entities and their rules and regulations are therefore subject to the limitations imposed by the 1st Amendment. That is settled law. What Brent suggested (and what appears to have been missed) is that the entity that owns the Ralph may not be a state actor. Roma's comment differentiating a state contract with constitutional law missed the point--that's all I'm saying. A state contract can have enforceable 1st Amendment issues. It appears as if he doesn't understand the threshold state action component of Bill of Rights issues.
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
What I am saying, is if you want to chant "SIOUX RULE" on the campus, on your own...fine and dandy. However, once you purchase a ticket, you are required (due to the fine print on said ticket) to abide by those rules. You have voluntarily entered a temporary contract by purchasing the ticket, and have voluntarily agreed to the limitations stated on that ticket. Therefore, you must abide BY those limitations on that ticket.
It's the same here. You (supposedly) read the TOS before agreeing to sign up, and are expected to abide by those terms, or face punishment.
What I am saying, is if you want to chant "SIOUX RULE" on the campus, on your own...fine and dandy. However, once you purchase a ticket, you are required (due to the fine print on said ticket) to abide by those rules. You have voluntarily entered a temporary contract by purchasing the ticket, and have voluntarily agreed to the limitations stated on that ticket. Therefore, you must abide BY those limitations on that ticket.
It's the same here. You (supposedly) read the TOS before agreeing to sign up, and are expected to abide by those terms, or face punishment.
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
I highly doubt it. It's just more piling on the great hockey program that is your Fighting Sioux. Haters will grab on to something and run with it to no end.
Split-N
All Hail
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
I once worked for a full-blooded Seminole who said, when some holier than thou politician tried to patronize him about teams with native American names/symbols, that "Florida State will be called something other than 'Seminoles' over my dead body!" On the staff was a full-blooded Cherokee from Georgia who was a vocal Braves fan.
Moral of the story: Those with social agendas tend to make a lot of noise but do not necessarily represent the views of those they constantly whine about.
I once worked for a full-blooded Seminole who said, when some holier than thou politician tried to patronize him about teams with native American names/symbols, that "Florida State will be called something other than 'Seminoles' over my dead body!" On the staff was a full-blooded Cherokee from Georgia who was a vocal Braves fan.
Moral of the story: Those with social agendas tend to make a lot of noise but do not necessarily represent the views of those they constantly whine about.
willythekid
New member
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
The white man still knows what's best for the Native American... Just ask the tribe that was allowed to vote on the Sioux name. Heck, asked the tribe that wasn't allowed to vote too.
The white man still knows what's best for the Native American... Just ask the tribe that was allowed to vote on the Sioux name. Heck, asked the tribe that wasn't allowed to vote too.
Happy
Registered User
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
nope.
nope.
pokechecker
Banned
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
and what you seem to have missed is that the Ralph is owned by (to put it in the words of Chief I Feel So Guilty to Have Born With White Privilege) the fat rich white guy that built it (his foundation anyway) so I think you can rule them out as forbidding anything Sioux related.
or the Sioux tribe they allowed to have a say that's half in South Dakota
you underestimate how often the Utopians are offended, theys are always offended with anything they don't agree with
and what you seem to have missed is that the Ralph is owned by (to put it in the words of Chief I Feel So Guilty to Have Born With White Privilege) the fat rich white guy that built it (his foundation anyway) so I think you can rule them out as forbidding anything Sioux related.
or ask the Ojibwa tribe that was allowed to have a say
or the Sioux tribe they allowed to have a say that's half in South Dakota
you underestimate how often the Utopians are offended, theys are always offended with anything they don't agree with
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Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
If someone steals from someone else...I'm not deeply hurt by that. But I'm not the injured party. Along the same lines, we are not the relevant party here. The tribes are. The general issue has been settled...what it means is being clarified.
If someone steals from someone else...I'm not deeply hurt by that. But I'm not the injured party. Along the same lines, we are not the relevant party here. The tribes are. The general issue has been settled...what it means is being clarified.
pokechecker
Banned
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
how many games do you suppose the tribal leaders of Standing Rock attend ? have they ever?
if a fan whoops it up wearing a Fighting Sioux jersey, and there are no Standing Rock tribal leaders there to hear it, has an offense been made?
so basically the argument is if just one person is offended, the other 10,000 have to pay the price
of course that's always the Utopians argument for spending a bajillion dollars
.... if it saves just one life (unless it is an unborn baby)
how many games do you suppose the tribal leaders of Standing Rock attend ? have they ever?
if a fan whoops it up wearing a Fighting Sioux jersey, and there are no Standing Rock tribal leaders there to hear it, has an offense been made?
so basically the argument is if just one person is offended, the other 10,000 have to pay the price
of course that's always the Utopians argument for spending a bajillion dollars
.... if it saves just one life (unless it is an unborn baby)
Diversity Fighter
Registered Moron
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
Being offended is a choice. Banning, chiefly based on whether it offends someone leads to a never ending cycle. What is next, ban North Dakota, Saint Paul MN? Ay, Yi, Yi, Yi, where is the Frito Bandito?
Being offended is a choice. Banning, chiefly based on whether it offends someone leads to a never ending cycle. What is next, ban North Dakota, Saint Paul MN? Ay, Yi, Yi, Yi, where is the Frito Bandito?
Re: Should UND fans wearing Fighting Sioux gear be denied admission to NCAA arenas?
Wow, I guess I didn't explain myself very well. I was commenting on what I feel are wrong assumptions about applicability of fist amendment protections to the regulation of speech (expression) at the Ralph. Nothing whatsoever about whether any form of expression there is offensive or whether it should be regulated. Nothing.
I doubt you have any clue whatsoever what my personal views are about what expression should be permitted or prohibited at the Ralph.
Wow, I guess I didn't explain myself very well. I was commenting on what I feel are wrong assumptions about applicability of fist amendment protections to the regulation of speech (expression) at the Ralph. Nothing whatsoever about whether any form of expression there is offensive or whether it should be regulated. Nothing.
I doubt you have any clue whatsoever what my personal views are about what expression should be permitted or prohibited at the Ralph.