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SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

hockeykrazy said:
Leblanc has 4 more points than anyone on Minnesota's team in two less games played (Leblanc 30 pts 22 games, Haula 26 pts, 20 games) and leads the WCHA in assists 2nd in the WCHA in scoring behind Walters from UNO.

Kosilla has 1 more goal than anyone on Minnesota in the same number of games played (11 goals in 20 games, top gopher is Bjugstad with 10 goals in 20 games) .
Dowd had 24 pts that would be second by 4 pts and 2 less games on the Gophers (second on the Gophers is Rau with 20 pts in 20 games). Dowd is a complete 2 way player.

Hanowski was out 5 games with a concussion and would be on pace with Bjugstad. Hano (7 goals 8 assists in 17 games, Bjugstad 10 goals and 9 assists in 20 games). Leblanc, Hano and Dowd are on the Hobey voting list.
Hano was lights out before the injury and has just started to be himself in the last couple games.

I wouldn't take anyone on the Gophers over Leblanc (Leblanc controls the puck and sets up everyone). I would only take Gaudreau over Leblanc from BC.

SCSU Euro already talked about Jensen over Schmidt and Jensen isn't as big a defensive liability as I've seen watching Schmidt (gets way too caught up in the offense sometimes and leaves a lane or the middle wide open). Jensen has an uncanny ability to seal guys off with his positioning and is always patient and never gets rattled. I've never seen Jensen get totally burned like I have several times watching Schmidt.

For Minnesota I really like Condon and Schmidt because of their speed. But I wouldn't trade our top 3 or 4 players for them, only Bjugstad Rau and Haula and it would be about an even swap.

Leblanc has great vision and is always changing directions which keeps the D away and on edge (puck control). He is very smart, makes very good decisions and he knows his defensive assignments and does them well.
My only knock is he doesn't have great breakaway speed.

SCSU is struggling right now and always have with defensive trapping teams because of their systems but when they are on I would match them with anyone in the country. When they are off they can be as bad as anyone in the country.
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The statement wasn't that St. Cloud has 3 or 4 forwards who are as good as anyone else's, it was that St. Cloud has as much talent as anyone in college hockey.

Since SCSUEuro is using selective stats and is using career stats to make his point for Wilcox vs Faragher and Schmidt vs Jensen...allow me to do the same.

Top scorer for top scorer:

Haula vs LeBlanc
Haula is 35-64-99 in 96 games played. That's a PPG of 1.03. LeBlanc is 35-92-127 in 151 games played for a PPG of .84. Advantage Haula.

Rau vs Dowd
Rau is 27-36-63 for a PPG of 1.05 in 60 games. Dowd is 25-41-66 for .68 PPG in 97 games. Advantage Rau.

Bjugstad vs Kossila
Bjugstad has a .91 PPG with a 43-38-81 spread in 89 games. Kossila is .85 going 11-6-17 in 20 games. Advantage Bjugstad.

SCSU's top PPG player is Kossila with a .85 while Minnesota's lowest (in top 3 scorers this season) is Bjugstad with a .91.

Now I'm not saying that St. Cloud doesn't have a handful of very good players. In fact, I'm greatly impressed by its freshmen class. But player for player in career stats (which I think is more indicative of talent) the players just don't match up.

Now you can say "Well hockey isn't just about numbers..." And I agree. Let's look at the intangibles that these players bring.

Bjugstad is nearly always covered by 2 defenseman. At his immense size and reach, opposing teams know he's always a threat. That leaves other teammates less defended. "There's not a darn thing this guy can't do...you hate to put comparisons out there, but there are only so many guys that were that big, as big as Mario Lemieux and had that gift of soft hands like Gretzky." Florida Panthers' director of player development.

Rau gets under opposing teams' skin and gets them to draw penalties. He's not afraid to muck it up and lay down a big hit for his size. He can get other players off their game by getting in their head and he's always hovering around the net waiting to get the dirty goal.

Haula...all the guy does is scores goals and pees off balconies.
 
Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

GopherFan89 said:
Have YOU been to a Gopher, Notre Dame or BC game this year? I would guess not. And before you ask if I've been to a Husky game, yes...I have. About 6 or 7 this year. I can say, biased though you may say I am, that the Gophers seem much more skilled against their opponents. Could SCSU beat BC or Notre Dame right now? I really don't think so.

I admire your passion for your team, but it's very common for fans to overvalue their hometown players. I wouldn't trade Dowd or Hanowski for Bjugstad or Haula. I wouldn't trade Rau for Kossila ever. Schmidt for Jensen? Heck no. And how about Wilcox for Faragher? Not in a million years. And while we may disagree, I think outside opinions such as NHL scouts, hockeysfuture.com and many analysts would agree. Would I trade Haula for an Anders Lee or a Johnny Gaudreau? Probably.
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I have not been to a game but have watched at least part of every gopher game. I have DirecTv and have also watched most of the top team in the country as well. You are like your other Gopher friend. All you are just saying is I am crazy for my opinion but only back it up with a blank statement. I am happy you would take these players over these players, but what does that prove? If I am so crazy break down all the lines/goaltending player by player and show me there really is that big of a talent gap. If it is close there is nothing wrong with what I said.
 
SCSU Euro said:
You have seen Faragher play in some games where he has played poorly? Congrats, so have I. I've also seen him play out of his mind. In WCHA play (common opponents) Faragher has the edge in .915 to .906 sv%, Wilcox has the GAA 2.13 to 2.23. That's pretty pick 'em to me. I've seen both play a number of times, I said, I bet more people would rather have Wilcox in net, and that's fine, but to act like its "Hands-down, OMG, not even CLOSE!!!!" is ridiculous. And also to go he's a freshman proves he's been great so far... but also says its a small sample size. Remember how good Kangas looked in his first half a season?
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I've seen Faragher play good games too. I couldn't believe how well he did against the Gophers last year. Even though State lost, he stonewalled them.

Why would you only count the conference games? Last I checked college hockey wasn't who does the best in the conference, it's who does best in the nation. Not only that, but when you hold Notre Dame and Boston College to only 2 goals total, that's a little more impressive than giving up 8 to Northern Michigan.
 
scsutommyboy said:
I have not been to a game but have watched at least part of every gopher game. I have DirecTv and have also watched most of the top team in the country as well. You are like your other Gopher friend. All you are just saying is I am crazy for my opinion but only back it up with a blank statement. I am happy you would take these players over these players, but what does that prove? If I am so crazy break down all the lines/goaltending player by player and show me there really is that big of a talent gap. If it is close there is nothing wrong with what I said.
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Why waste my time breaking down every line when you'll probably just quip back saying I made a "blank statement"? Everyone else, except for you, provided reasoning why they think their players are better. I have you career statistics and listed intangibles of my team's top 3 offensive players against yours, discussed your top defender versus mine and discussed the difference in goaltending. What evidence have you provided? Stop relying on Krazy and Euro to do your work for you.
 
Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

Correction: Rasmus Reijola gave up 6 and Faragher gave up 2 against Northern Michigan even though very bad turnovers by Prochno, coverage breakdowns by Gravel and Oliver and mistakes by Rabey and Daly did most of the damage.
Plus the whole team played very poorly (no energy) after the bad call on Benik (5 minute major on a good clean check- when Johnson or Jones(not sure) from Northern Michigan had his head down).
 
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Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

The biggest thing Minnesota has on SCSU is size. We have Garrett Milan (very small) very fast who draws penalties and gets underneath skin but he is a fourth liner who I think deserves more minutes for his all out play every shift. He also hits anything that moves (much like Clutterbuck). Murray is also very fast. Like Minnesota we play an aggressive forecheck and the D like to jump into the offense. So like Minnesota we caught in breakdowns in defensive puck support and trapping teams when we struggle. I think Minnesota has a little more team speed if they use it but the rest I think is pretty much a wash.
 
Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

Size isn't as much of a factor in durability when we play a lot fewer games over the course of a season as compared to Jrs or the NHL. That's why a BC can win National Championships with little guys.

I also think size has been negated by the penalty changes. UNO is huge but that 6-8 guy (Sustr and Megna) can not really hit a 5-8 guy without a major being called almost all the time now but the little guys can run the big guys and get very few calls.
 
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Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

hockeykrazy said:
Correction: Rasmus Reijola gave up 6 and Faragher gave up 2 against Northern Michigan even though very bad turnovers by Prochno, coverage breakdowns by Gravel and Oliver and mistakes by Rabey and Daly did most of the damage.
Plus the whole team played very poorly (no energy) after the bad call on Benik (5 minute major on a good clean check- when Johnson or Jones(not sure) from Northern Michigan had his head down).
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It had to have been 5-8 Johnson not 6-2 Jones since Benik is 5-10.
 
Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

hockeykrazy said:
Size isn't as much of a factor in durability when we play a lot fewer games over the course of a season as compared to Jrs or the NHL. That's why a BC can win National Championships with little guys.

I also think size has been negated by the penalty changes. UNO is huge but that 6-8 guy (Sustr and Megna) can not really hit a 5-8 guy without a major being called almost all the time now but the little guys can run the big guys and get very few calls.
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Greater size helps in shutting down passing lanes on the PK, and requiring opponents to take more steps in getting around you during a rush. The taller the man is, the longer the arms are, the longer the stick is, the greater the disruption.
 
Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

This thread is another reminder why it is good to not be a SCCC fan :D
 
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Re: SCSU vs. Bye Jan. 11 & 12

GopherFan89 said:
Why waste my time breaking down every line when you'll probably just quip back saying I made a "blank statement"? Everyone else, except for you, provided reasoning why they think their players are better. I have you career statistics and listed intangibles of my team's top 3 offensive players against yours, discussed your top defender versus mine and discussed the difference in goaltending. What evidence have you provided? Stop relying on Krazy and Euro to do your work for you.
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I don't have time to sit on here all day posting like I use to when I was younger. All I am saying is if I am so crazy then prove it. Talent is very subjective. I don't think you or the other guy know anything about my squad. That or you know nothing about hockey or maybe both.... Happy Friday and enjoy your weekend.:)
 
scsutommyboy said:
I don't have time to sit on here all day posting like I use to when I was younger. All I am saying is if I am so crazy then prove it. Talent is very subjective. I don't think you or the other guy know anything about my squad. That or you know nothing about hockey or maybe both.... Happy Friday and enjoy your weekend.:)
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In other words as I thought, ya got nothin. You were talking out of your *** as usual.
 
scsutommyboy said:
I don't have time to sit on here all day posting like I use to when I was younger. All I am saying is if I am so crazy then prove it. Talent is very subjective. I don't think you or the other guy know anything about my squad. That or you know nothing about hockey or maybe both.... Happy Friday and enjoy your weekend.:)
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I'm very confident that I've seen far more Gopher and St. Cloud games combined this year than you have. Maybe it's you that doesn't have any idea about your own squad.

You don't want to spend the time posting on here yet you expect us to in order to prove you're crazy? Why make a statement if you're not willing to engage in a conversation to backup your statement? I, and your compatriots, have offered far more evidence than you for our cases.

Finally, yup...talent is subjective. Subjective talent for the Gophers, Notre Dame and BC have lead to a top 4 ranking. Subjective talent for SCSU has lead them to a record of 12-10 (only slightly above .500) and a pairwise ranking of tied for 19th. Haha congrats! Don't you have some more ripping on Motzko to do, Tommy?
 
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