Sandusky/Penn State scandal

[Craig P.]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Supposedly, the DA that disappeared in 2005 was investigating this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Supposedly, the DA that disappeared in 2005 was investigating this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Gricar

Well, you'd have a different story if Paterno had the DA whacked, wouldn't you? I believe Occam's Razor needs to be applied here.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

CEO's don't have bosses. He may be the coach of the team, but he has a boss (who also has a boss).

ETA: If he asked his boss about the follow up and the guy assured him it was taken care of, again I ask, what should he do? Call the campus/local/state police and double check his boss?

of course CEO's have bosses. duh. corporate CEOs, stockholders, investors, customers, clients, etc. and does anyone really think JoePa didn't run that football program? here's a few things he could have done : banned Sandusky from campus, taken away his on campus office, talked to the Second Mile people about what was going on, talked to the AD and University president about why they didn't go to the police, punched the guy out and cut his balls off.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

of course CEO's have bosses. duh. corporate CEOs, stockholders, investors, customers, clients, etc. and does anyone really think JoePa didn't run that football program? here's a few things he could have done : banned Sandusky from campus, taken away his on campus office, talked to the Second Mile people about what was going on, talked to the AD and University president about why they didn't go to the police, punched the guy out and cut his balls off.

I agree with the bolded and underlined. But did he have the authority to ban the guy? And even if he was that influential to some PERJURERS, and the PERJURERS said, "we'll ban him," do you think the PERJURERS would keep their word?

Again, let's wait and see.

 

[Almington]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Well, the grand jury seems to agree: they've indicted two very high ranking university officials for perjury. I realize you're suggesting an even bigger coverup. We'll see. One thing that argues against Paterno knowingly covering up for Sandusky is, at the time Joe became aware of these charges, Sandusky had essentially been forced out, by Paterno. Joe had told him he wasn't going to be his successor and had helped to set up cushy retirements benefits for Sandusky. This is all referred to in the Grand Jury report. In other words, the professional and possibly personal relationship these two had had was over, thus diminishing the probability that Paterno was going to risk perjury charges to cover for him.

First, I don't think that Paterno did anything illegal; he reported it as he was required to and I suspect that he had enough trust in the people he reported it to that they would properly handle the whole situation.

That said, I wonder if the AD and the VP wanted to cover-up the whole incident in an effort to protect the PSU program and Paterno's reputation because the alleged perpetrator was a long time assistant coach and trusted friend to Paterno. My question is: what, if any, role and knowledge did Paterno have with regards to any attempt to cover-up what happened.

The sad fact is that regardless of how things end up this will absolutely tarnish Paterno's reputation.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

of course CEO's have bosses. duh. corporate CEOs, stockholders, investors, customers, clients, etc. and does anyone really think JoePa didn't run that football program? here's a few things he could have done : banned Sandusky from campus, taken away his on campus office, talked to the Second Mile people about what was going on, talked to the AD and University president about why they didn't go to the police, punched the guy out and cut his balls off.

Paterno undoubtedly has more clout than most (all?) college football coaches. But, so did Bobby Knight, and he was outta there. Paterno occupies a prominent position in the state university system. So analogies to big business are not entirely on point. Again, the grand jury is satisfied Paterno did what the law requires of him. And several of the things you suggested HE should have done (not the surgery) were done. But by his superior, the AD. Sandusky had already been reported to Second Mile. You and the rest of the burning torches and rope crowd are so cock sure of what he should have done and what he didn't do. You just KNOW he did something wrong. How?

 

[3W]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

I read two different message boards regularly - this one, and a board for sports journalists. And the difference in tone between the two is staggering.

The other one basically asserts that Penn State in general should fry, starting with the GA for not immediately coming to the child's aid and going right through Paterno for basically not immediately personally going to the cops. Frankly, I don't agree with some of what they're saying but I had to make the observation of the difference.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

First, I don't think that Paterno did anything illegal; he reported it as he was required to and I suspect that he had enough trust in the people he reported it to that they would properly handle the whole situation.

That said, I wonder if the AD and the VP wanted to cover-up the whole incident in an effort to protect the PSU program and Paterno's reputation because the alleged perpetrator was a long time assistant coach and trusted friend to Paterno. My question is: what, if any, role and knowledge did Paterno have with regards to any attempt to cover-up what happened.

The sad fact is that regardless of how things end up this will absolutely tarnish Paterno's reputation.

You could be right. Circling the wagons to protect their icon might have been in their minds. For sure. But personally, I would draw the line at perjury.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

My question is: what, if any, role and knowledge did Paterno have with regards to any attempt to cover-up what happened.

The sad fact is that regardless of how things end up this will absolutely tarnish Paterno's reputation.

That is exactly my question, and why I'm hesitating to judge JoePa fully. Right now, he's in the clear, but that COULD change.

And also agree with the tarnishment.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

I read two different message boards regularly - this one, and a board for sports journalists. And the difference in tone between the two is staggering.

The other one basically asserts that Penn State in general should fry, starting with the GA for not immediately coming to the child's aid and going right through Paterno for basically not immediately personally going to the cops. Frankly, I don't agree with some of what they're saying but I had to make the observation of the difference.

I ran into some of that same stuff in comments to an article in a Pennsylvania paper. Basically Queen of Hearts stuff. Or Duke LAX stuff. "Paterno should resign immediately." Why? I think you can attribute a lot of it to athletic rivalries. The rest to the Duke phenomenon.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Penn State's football program has always been odd under Paterno. how much does he make? why can't the players talk to the media? why can't the media attend practices?

this disgusting jerk Sandusky raped (and it is raped, not inappropriate sexual contact) young boys. he has ruined their lives. he's a dangerous predator. and Penn State and its officials and coaches protected him. like they never noticed him traveling to bowl games with these boys?

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Penn State's football program has always been odd under Paterno. how much does he make? why can't the players talk to the media? why can't the media attend practices?

this disgusting jerk Sandusky raped (and it is raped, not inappropriate sexual contact) young boys. he has ruined their lives. he's a dangerous predator. and Penn State and its officials and coaches protected him. like they never noticed him traveling to bowl games with these boys?

Ever read Theo Fleury's book? He goes into pretty sordid detail in fact and emotion about Graham James. These manipulators that abuse others are very crafty. They know who to pick, how to work the angles, etc etc etc. No one is excusing Sandusky (and most, I think, would love to have a few minutes to ahem, "have a word" with him), and no one is excusing the perjurers.

Everyone else that may or may not have "known" is up in the air right now. I'm just asking you (and others who are ready to burn JoePa) to wait and see what else there is before you make a decision. I understand your anger, I do. I'm just as angry about this situation. I'm just not ready to condemn an as-of-now innocent man.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

if one of these boys were your son, what would you have wanted Paterno to do? wash his hands of it and carry on? what would you want done with Sandusky? have him continue to work with children? in a Penn State office? how about those upfront guys, the AD and the prez? think they should still be working for Penn State? and have Penn State paying for their attorneys? remember, these aren't some vague accusations or allegations, this is from a Grand Jury.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

I couldn't read the Theo Fleury book. too awful.

I'm just sayin'. this whole thing is outrageous.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

if one of these boys were your son, what would you have wanted Paterno to do? wash his hands of it and carry on? what would you want done with Sandusky? have him continue to work with children? in a Penn State office? how about those upfront guys, the AD and the prez? think they should still be working for Penn State? and have Penn State paying for their attorneys? remember, these aren't some vague accusations or allegations, this is from a Grand Jury.

The AD, etc, the ones who are the main culprits, they should be in jail. Sandusky? Can I have 10 minutes in a dark alley and no witnesses? The rest? I'd be mad about it, but would realize they did their jobs, did what they thought was the right thing to do, and that they trusted people they thought they could trust.

And no, PSU paying for attorneys doesn't bother me, as long as PSU is re-imbursed by the defendants if found guilty.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

if one of these boys were your son, what would you have wanted Paterno to do? wash his hands of it and carry on? what would you want done with Sandusky? have him continue to work with children? in a Penn State office? how about those upfront guys, the AD and the prez? think they should still be working for Penn State? and have Penn State paying for their attorneys? remember, these aren't some vague accusations or allegations, this is from a Grand Jury.

Paterno "washed his hands?" How do you know? In the event you haven't read the grand jury report, I suggest you do so. It will answer some of your questions and perhaps give you a different perspective.
Penn State has no authority to stop a former employee from "working with children" at an independent agency. At least one parent had notified the agency of Sandusky's behavior with her son.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

I couldn't read the Theo Fleury book. too awful.

I'm just sayin'. this whole thing is outrageous.

Under any circumstances, it's horrible. No question.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Under any circumstances, it's horrible. No question.

I admit, I thought Theo was some "I'm famous, I can do what I want" partier, until I started reading the book. How he accomplished what he accomplished, I think differently of him now. Horrible life story. Horrible. I don't "forgive" him for the bad things he did, but I understand why he did them.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

Penn State's football program has always been odd under Paterno. how much does he make? why can't the players talk to the media? why can't the media attend practices?

this disgusting jerk Sandusky raped (and it is raped, not inappropriate sexual contact) young boys. he has ruined their lives. he's a dangerous predator. and Penn State and its officials and coaches protected him. like they never noticed him traveling to bowl games with these boys?

Traveling with at risk youngsters you're presumably trying to help isn't a crime. In fact, it's a good thing. What's criminal is to use that contact as a way of sexually abusing the youngster. Your position seems to be they "should" have known. It's pretty easy to suggest that now, but not so easy then.

Take the graduate assistant who reported Sandusky to Paterno. I've read blowhards (not here) who claimed "if it had been me, I would have gone in there and seperated the two and decked Sandusky." Right. You're a young guy, hoping to maybe get hired by the University and you stumble in to one of the best known figures on the campus engaging in this behavior. And you're just gonna run up to him and physically intervene? Not bloody likely. The kid was badly shaken up. Called his dad. His dad said let's go tell the coach. And they did. This super hero nonsense is for people who think they know what they would have done but actually have no freaking idea.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Sandusky/Penn State scandal

I admit, I thought Theo was some "I'm famous, I can do what I want" partier, until I started reading the book. How he accomplished what he accomplished, I think differently of him now. Horrible life story. Horrible. I don't "forgive" him for the bad things he did, but I understand why he did them.

That's always the trick, isn't it? Balancing the natural human tendency to give people who've had it rough a break with the fact that having it rough is rarely a justification for bad behavior. Criminals try every day to get juries to acquit or go easy on them because "I was abused as a child." The problem with that is the vast majority of people who had it rough as children don't grow up to be child molesters or rapists or murderers.