RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

well now the selfish daydream for me at least is that we finish 10th, Harvard finishes 3rd, and either Quinnipiac or Yale finishes 7th. That way I can see next weekend's games in person and we don't face either Union or Cornell the weekend after, either.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

well now the selfish daydream for me at least is that we finish 10th, Harvard finishes 3rd, and either Quinnipiac or Yale finishes 7th. That way I can see next weekend's games in person and we don't face either Union or Cornell the weekend after, either.

What if your scenario happens, and then the 5 and 6 seeds win?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

well now the selfish daydream for me at least is that we finish 10th, Harvard finishes 3rd, and either Quinnipiac or Yale finishes 7th. That way I can see next weekend's games in person and we don't face either Union or Cornell the weekend after, either.

Something tells me we don't face Union or Cornell or anyone the weekend after.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

I forget who keeps posting about the RPI@Cornell game that Kotyra infamously officiated.

It was game 2 of the second round of the ECAC playoffs. RPI ended the season with a poor record at #11 in the ECAC. But as the playoffs began they had beaten #6 Dartmouth on the road in two games, then had taken the first of the quarterfinal series against #2 Cornell. After that loss, Cornell coach Mike Schafer went off on a tirade over the officiating and was given a one game suspension. And his whining was well rewarded with... this: http://collegehockeystats.net/0809/boxes/mcorren1.m14

Rensselaer 0 0 0 = 0 5 3 1 = 9 19-41 0-5
Cornell 1 2 1 = 4 18 25 13 = 56 9-18 3-18

That's right. Cornell had 18 power plays.

Cornell had seven discreet 5x3 opportunities, covering 5:17 of game time, and it could have been longer had they not scored on two of them. I remember the game. It was RIDICULOUS.

The next night a valiant RPI rally fell short and they lost the tiebreaker 3-4. Thanks to Kotyra's heroic stand, Cornell was able to move on and lose to #1 Yale in the ECAC finals. Cornell was then invited to the NCAA tournament where they lost in the second round.

I was the one referring to that game. The word ridiculous does not cover it. I have no animosity towards Cornell-they simply took advantage of what they were given. I have watched hockey at all levels since 1953 and cannot even begin to count the number of games. I have never seen any game with a team given 7 chances to play 5 on 3(some of them almsot a full two minutes and some of them consecutively). I am not sure but I also remember late in the second period we were short handed 4 on 3 for a while also(which made it 8 times that we played with only 3 men on the ice). I have seen 18 power plays given in a game but then only when the other team had an almost equal number. This was a premeditated screwing and a situation where two officials decided that they were going to do whatever is necessary to get the desired result. Admittedly RPI lost its cool as the game wore on-but who wouldn't given the way this game was called?
There have been other episodes of horrible officiating in the 49 years of RPI hockey I have seen-I will also not forget the semifinal game in the ECAC Playoffs at Boston Garden Mar 13 1992 against SLU. And we have at times benefitted from an occassional call that went our way-George Servinis 1985. But I cannot ever recall an entire game being called with full prejudice to insure a desired outcome.
Sure I am an RPI fan-but all I ever expect is that the boys be given an equal chance in any game. I am always upset when the officials become the game. I am always hopeful that every game will be decided by the players and which team plays well and deserves to win.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Something tells me we don't face Union or Cornell or anyone the weekend after.

RC-I would care less who we face the weekend after. I just want there to be a weekend after. If by some chance we do get through the first round on the road-whoever we would have to play that second weekend better take us very seriously. We finished 10th in 1992 and got our act together in the playoffs to beat Vermont and Harvard to reach the ECAC semifinals at Boston Garden.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Something tells me we don't face Union or Cornell or anyone the weekend after.

That is a little harsh, but deserved.
I just think that this team is better than what they have shown. And since they still have to play the games, I will give RPI a shot at getting to the second round. And if that happens ...

 

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

That quote by Kelly caught my eye as well. As far as I can remember, I believe thats one of the first times Ive seen anything in print about the possibility of the Ivys spinning out their own league someday. JMO but I have a feeling that the ECAC isnt one big happy family at the moment and that theres a real chance we could see some changes coming in the future.

We have a rougue head of officials who has rabbit ears which goes down to his guys in the stripes. The article you found was excellent and was a vindication of some of the reporting I have done over the last couple of years. RH, I always appreciate the fact that you never made fun of me like some others on the board have done (you know who you are) when I have brought these topics up in my provocative but always informative manner.

 

[fishcore12]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Because I am The Spoiler. I am The Spoiler
I'm down in the count but no don't count me out its alright
I am The Spoiler. I am The Spoiler
As I come out of nowhere to sweep you away through the night

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

You guys played a smart game tonight and deserved the win. Why are you in 11th.. or whatever place, in the league?...

Thanks ColSkate. This is truly a tough squad to figure out.

I recall asking this very same question of Colate roughly a year ago! With any luck, RPI can kick over the outhouse like Gate did last Spring.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

We have a rougue head of officials who has rabbit ears which goes down to his guys in the stripes. The article you found was excellent and was a vindication of some of the reporting I have done over the last couple of years. RH, I always appreciate the fact that you never made fun of me like some others on the board have done (you know who you are) when I have brought these topics up in my provocative but always informative manner.

AD: Admittedly, I've been one of the ones who have resisted the HE move. Not for nostalgic reasons - my reasons were mainly on-ice based -- I'd like to see us regularly be a top ECAC team first. However, I am on record for having a low regard for Stewart and the hapless Mr. Hagwell..with the continuing inconsistency of officiating (one night you get an extremely well conducted game, the very next night they cannot manage to conduct a single clean face-off) to the Atl. City debacle being Hag's piece de resistance.

I have little doubt that Stewart's I can do no-wrong, thin skinned personality has fully corrupted the ECAC office, where the tail is now wagging the dog. I've seen it all too often in the business world where a headstrong, established mid-level guy runs roughshod over a meek executive.

Why the coaches and AD's put up with Hagwell's ineptitude is a baffling question without an answer...apparently the offspring of low expectations. But with the latest Ivy "League" mumblings, RPI and the other non-ivy's in the ECAC best look out for their own interests and start asking Hagwell the hard questions.

To conclude my ramblings, if RPI gets the chance my vote is HE.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Wicked-I have wondered for years why the Ivy League had not bolted form the ECAC hockey. They usually just set up their own little club or league in other sports-and they do actually crown an Ivy league champion in hockey. I figure it was because they only had 6 schools playing hockey and would probably have to play each other 4 or more times per season to have any sort of schedule. I would bet that if Penn and Columbia had hockey teams that the group of 8 would be long gone from the ECAC. Personally I could care less what league we play in-I just want us to be near the top anywhere. But I think we need to be prepared right now for the Ivy schools to do what they have always done-separate themselves from others. Just ruminating a bit....

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

What if your scenario happens, and then the 5 and 6 seeds win?

Exactly the same thing: we still would not face either Union or Cornell. You knew that already, right?


edit: oops, my bad...I answered my own question when I realized that I forgot that each round is re-seeded.....

 

[FreshFish]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Something tells me we don't face Union or Cornell or anyone the weekend after.

The operative word in my original post was "daydream," no?

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Gosh-the interest in posting on the RPI threads has increased rapidly-isn't it just great what one victory can do?

 

[redhead18]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Wicked-I have wondered for years why the Ivy League had not bolted form the ECAC hockey. They usually just set up their own little club or league in other sports-and they do actually crown an Ivy league champion in hockey. I figure it was because they only had 6 schools playing hockey and would probably have to play each other 4 or more times per season to have any sort of schedule. I would bet that if Penn and Columbia had hockey teams that the group of 8 would be long gone from the ECAC. Personally I could care less what league we play in-I just want us to be near the top anywhere. But I think we need to be prepared right now for the Ivy schools to do what they have always done-separate themselves from others. Just ruminating a bit....

A couple months ago I sent an anonymous email to one of the PR people from the Ivy League asking why they didnt have their own hockey conference. Basically it came down to the fact that only six members sponsor the sport. He did bring up the fact that the Big10 only has six members but the chances of one of the other member schools adding ice hockey is much greater then the chances of Penn or Columbia adding the sport. If just one of the Ivy schools some day decides to drop hockey, it would leave the other five schools in jeopardy with no place to go and no automatic bid to the ncaa's. I dont see any of the Big10 schools dropping hockey anytime soon. Now if the Ivys did break off that might encourage Penn to restart their program, considering they already have a rink on campus (which would need some upgrades) and dont have to worry about the athletic scholarship thing.

I also think the Ivy teams would really like playing more games against each other because for the most part they draw bigger crowds when they play a fellow Ivy school then they do when they host a non-ivy(except Cornell/Yale who sellout just about every game). Id be interested to hear what some of the Ivy League fans that post here think about the possibility of a Ivy hockey conference.

 

[Beman]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

I know things couldn't get much worse after the first part of the season but playing their best hockey of the season in Jan & Feb. is a good thing. Doing it with underclassmen leading the charge is even better.
I often criticize Seth's teams because they play worse at the end of the year. For what it is worth, this year's team is playing better now. One can only hope they can keep it up.
Atlantic City? Hey why not. Baby needs a new pair of shoes.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

Exactly the same thing: we still would not face either Union or Cornell. You knew that already, right?

uhhh... this isn't like the bouncyball tournament. High seed plays low seed in the quarters. Therefore, if 10 is the lowest seed still in, they play 1.

 

[ajh258]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

A couple months ago I sent an anonymous email to one of the PR people from the Ivy League asking why they didnt have their own hockey conference. Basically it came down to the fact that only six members sponsor the sport. He did bring up the fact that the Big10 only has six members but the chances of one of the other member schools adding ice hockey is much greater then the chances of Penn or Columbia adding the sport. If just one of the Ivy schools some day decides to drop hockey, it would leave the other five schools in jeopardy with no place to go and no automatic bid to the ncaa's. I dont see any of the Big10 schools dropping hockey anytime soon. Now if the Ivys did break off that might encourage Penn to restart their program, considering they already have a rink on campus (which would need some upgrades) and dont have to worry about the athletic scholarship thing.

I also think the Ivy teams would really like playing more games against each other because for the most part they draw bigger crowds when they play a fellow Ivy school then they do when they host a non-ivy(except Cornell/Yale who sellout just about every game). Id be interested to hear what some of the Ivy League fans that post here think about the possibility of a Ivy hockey conference.

I'm against it personally. The risk of an Ivy dropping the program or losing the auto-bid is not as important as keeping competitive teams in mix that you want to play year after year. I see SLU/CCT as very strong programs that make dramatic surges every few years, and not being able to play them every year is something I don't want as a Cornell fan. Union is beginning to prove that it is deserving of its D-1 status and RPI always had a solid program.

From an individual team's perspective, an appropriate analogy would be: would you rather jump from the ECAC to a lesser league like the AHA just for an auto-bid, or stay independent (essentially minimizing an auto-bid possibility) but guaranteed to play strong teams year after year? I would pick the latter because a lot of the big 3 conference schools don't have to win their conference championships in order to get into the NCAAS. I prefer having that option over an auto-bid.

 

[TimV]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

I also think the Ivy teams would really like playing more games against each other because for the most part they draw bigger crowds when they play a fellow Ivy school then they do when they host a non-ivy(except Cornell/Yale who sellout just about every game). Id be interested to hear what some of the Ivy League fans that post here think about the possibility of a Ivy hockey conference.

Not speaking for all, of course, but Cornell fans in general, because of Ivy restrictions on the number of games, would prefer NOT to play more league games and lose highly valued out-of-conference opportunities. Also, long-time ECAC rivalries with Clarkson, and RPI are bigger games in Ithaca than say, Brown and Princeton. If Union can stay at their current level, they too would be a better rivalry than some of the Ivy teams.

RE: DrDemento's quote

"They usually just set up their own little club or league in other sports-and they do actually crown an Ivy league champion in hockey.":

The Ivy League is an athletic conference like any other (aside from how grants-in-aid are handled) no different than The ACC, Big Ten, or Liberty League. Why the diminutive? In fact, the Ivy hockey championship is the LEAST deired championship compared to lacrosse (especially), football, hoops, etc at Cornell. In hockey, the desire is the ECAC autobid first, then the NCAA crown, which RPI has enjoyed more recently than Cornell.

The game tonght should be a good one, I like your team and coach, but I gotta wish you luck only AFTER tonight.

 

[ajh258]

Re: RPI 2011-12 Part V: Don't Stop Believing

In hockey, the desire is the ECAC autobid first, then the NCAA crown, which RPI has enjoyed more recently than Cornell.

If ECAC auto-bid is first, RPI has not enjoyed since 1995.