RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

[burgie12]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Obviously we'll have to see how it plays out but I think an immediate draw back in the other end is just as interesting as watching a defenseman skate up to the blue line (or even red) and dump it in. The longer the PKers are kept on the ice the bigger the advantage for the team with the PP. The net result in the long run is more scoring - period.

And more injuries, and less shorthanded goals. Plus, forget about seeing Chase and JD'A on the PK just terrorizing the opponent's entry strategy. There's no way that Appert would chance either of them being on the ice for 2 (or 5) straight minutes.

I don't know about you but nothing to me is more boring than a PP where the defense ices is 4 or 5 times and nothing happens in between. Now a clear out of the zone will require some skill - not just winding up and slapping the puck. I like that idea.

There are two causes for this: 1) An inept powerplay (see: RPI circa 07-09) that wouldn't score anyways; 2) An excellent PK team that just stifles you and doesn't allow you to break into the zone cleanly. Either way, you're not going to see a whole lot of scoring increase from this rule change. What will change is that skaters who have been on for 40-50 seconds (because the PP team is adequate but not tremendous) and are too gassed to do anything but ice the puck are going to ice it anyways. Repeat until PP team eventually scores. Is that goal really earned, or is it just the result of a rule change that severely handicaps the defensive team?

On the "Rule Changes" thread, someone pointed out that the Delay of Game rule that exists in the NHL is slightly modified for college. In college, the ref has to declare that there was intent by the defensive player to put the puck over the boards. So, expect a lot of pucks to "accidentally" get put over the boards to avoid icing the puck.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Obviously we'll have to see how it plays out but I think an immediate draw back in the other end is just as interesting as watching a defenseman skate up to the blue line (or even red) and dump it in. The longer the PKers are kept on the ice the bigger the advantage for the team with the PP. The net result in the long run is more scoring - period.

I don't know about you but nothing to me is more boring than a PP where the defense ices is 4 or 5 times and nothing happens in between. Now a clear out of the zone will require some skill - not just winding up and slapping the puck. I like that idea.

This is the craziest idea I've ever heard, at won't point do we stop fooling with the game?When we don't regognize it any more !The game is just fine the way it is. In fact I think it was better before USA Hockey started to meddle w/it 10 or so years ago.We are slowley approaching the point where records are going to be like comparing apples and oranges.My suggestion is let's take the cages off and have at it Old Time Hockey Baby!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH is ENOUGH !!!!!!!!

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Today is 14 June 2010. There are 110 days until RPI's next game.


This is based upon 2 October for the start of next season.

 

[babo]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

This is the craziest idea I've ever heard, at won't point do we stop fooling with the game?When we don't regognize it any more !The game is just fine the way it is. In fact I think it was better before USA Hockey started to meddle w/it 10 or so years ago.We are slowley approaching the point where records are going to be like comparing apples and oranges.My suggestion is let's take the cages off and have at it Old Time Hockey Baby!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH is ENOUGH !!!!!!!!

...Here, here!

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Those of you wondering if Allen York will take part once again in the Blue Jackets' prospect camp... Yes, he is.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Those of you wondering if Allen York will take part once again in the Blue Jackets' prospect camp... Yes, he is.

Thanks for posting it. I would have been surprised if he wasn't participating.

 

[Jasma]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Two words... Mike Baker. He was atrocious in the Brown series. Ditto.. Feola What Baker did to Pirri was everything that is wrong with ECAC officials. I think he called him for three penalties (game one) in the first period, the same in game two... I couldn't go to Sunday game because I knew we were going to get jobbed by Baker and Feola. My issue is that the league never does anything to improve it. Paul Stewart sits on his NHL alleged cred. SA is trying to bring in top flight guys (i.e. Pirri and Jerry) and believe me the refs in the league can and will be issue why they leave or why players of their caliber don't come in the first place.

You make a good point about the reputation of the league officiating could impact whether or not some players come to ECAC schools, although I think that is a minor consideration. The other leagues have their own officiating issues.

I'm sure other programs have officials they feel discriminate against them, but I agree that there are two or three ECAC guys that seem to have trouble maintaining an unbiased view when they do RPI games; and we seem to get them more often than some of the "good guys">

 

[Jasma]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

This is the craziest idea I've ever heard, at won't point do we stop fooling with the game?When we don't regognize it any more !The game is just fine the way it is. In fact I think it was better before USA Hockey started to meddle w/it 10 or so years ago.We are slowley approaching the point where records are going to be like comparing apples and oranges.My suggestion is let's take the cages off and have at it Old Time Hockey Baby!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH is ENOUGH !!!!!!!!

Wanna go to razor wire around the rink and fights every five minutes as well?
I don't like some of the proposed changes - especially no-icing on PK - but some of the changes might enhance the game. Just because they change a rule, doesn't mean they can't change it back in a year or two if it doesn't have the intended outcome. The game will be fine.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

And more injuries, and less shorthanded goals. Plus, forget about seeing Chase and JD'A on the PK just terrorizing the opponent's entry strategy. There's no way that Appert would chance either of them being on the ice for 2 (or 5) straight minutes.

Your first point is a ridiculous argument. When is the last time someone got injured because they were tired? Your second one is essentially backing up my point that it should lead to more scoring.

In the end, the PK'ers will need to learn a new skill - how to flip the puck high out of the zone so it doesn't reach the goal line. This is essentially the same skill required, and the exact same situation I'll add, when the opponent pulls their goalie at the end of a game. Boy is that a boring time to watch a hockey game.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

This is the craziest idea I've ever heard, at won't point do we stop fooling with the game?When we don't regognize it any more !The game is just fine the way it is. In fact I think it was better before USA Hockey started to meddle w/it 10 or so years ago.We are slowley approaching the point where records are going to be like comparing apples and oranges.My suggestion is let's take the cages off and have at it Old Time Hockey Baby!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH is ENOUGH !!!!!!!!

I agree it is a bit radical but it is not unprecedented. The WHA did not allow shorthanded icing.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

I agree it is a bit radical but it is not unprecedented. The WHA did not allow shorthanded icing.

And look what became of the WHA.

 

[burgie12]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Your first point is a ridiculous argument. When is the last time someone got injured because they were tired?

It's not an argument that I developed, it's one being used by bloggers / commentators throughout the league. And, you don't think that being tired wouldn't lead to players reaching more? getting out of position? crashing into the boards because they've been on their skates too long?

And, I know this comparison is going to be a little bit of a stretch, and you're going to rip me for it, but the midget / mite leagues I know of / have experience with can't afford to pay for the ice time to have the ice resurfaced between each period. They don't wait for the end of the game, they use the Zamboni before the third period. Why? Because the kids' legs are tired and the chance of injury goes up if the ice isn't cleaned.

Your second one is essentially backing up my point that it should lead to more scoring.

Yes. I say it's going to lead to more scoring. I'm also saying that it's a terrible idea, the goals are cheap, there's a risk of injury, star players are less likely to be used on the PK, and there's no issue where fans are being turned off of the game because the scoring is too low.

In the end, the PK'ers will need to learn a new skill - how to flip the puck high out of the zone so it doesn't reach the goal line. This is essentially the same skill required, and the exact same situation I'll add, when the opponent pulls their goalie at the end of a game. Boy is that a boring time to watch a hockey game.

No, it's not the same situation. If the opposing team has an empty net, you shoot for the goal. You also don't shoot it so high that it's playable / not icing; that destroys the whole purpose of shooting for the goal. Also also, empty net in the last minute of the game != power play. Not even close. In fact, just about as laughable of a comparison as my mites comparison earlier.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of

Two words... Mike Baker. He was atrocious in the Brown series. Ditto.. Feola What Baker did to Pirri was everything that is wrong with ECAC officials. I think he called him for three penalties (game one) in the first period, the same in game two... I couldn't go to Sunday game because I knew we were going to get jobbed by Baker and Feola. My issue is that the league never does anything to improve it. Paul Stewart sits on his NHL alleged cred. SA is trying to bring in top flight guys (i.e. Pirri and Jerry) and believe me the refs in the league can and will be issue why they leave or why players of their caliber don't come in the first place.

IMO, in the Brown series Pirri was his own worst enemy in that he couldn't keep is lip buttoned. Regardless of what a player thinks of a call, you need to be composed enough to skate away and let the captains and the coach work the refs. This isn't the NHL where refs give you some leeway to chirp.

Brandon lost his composure in that series...six penalties in the first two games...including an unsportsmanlike. Even if you take half off the top for lousy calls, that 3 PKs your team has to kill thanks to your #1 center.
I love the fire the kid's got, but you've got to be smart and pick your spots to get your licks in. The wheels came off as Brown got under his skin, IMO.

I know I'll now get run down for this, but we need to look at things with the sunglasses off. I expect Brandon will learn from the experience and be the better for it.

 

[GRussinko]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of

I know I'll now get run down for this, but we need to look at things with the sunglasses off. I expect Brandon will learn from the experience and be the better for.

No argument here. Pirri spends way too much time running his trap and as a result does not get the benefit of the doubt on penalties and especially when it comes to getting tossed from faceoffs. There were several games where he got tossed from almost every faceoff for yapping at the officials. I've seen him get warned on several occasions to shut up or he'd get a misconduct (down to the ref making the motion for misconduct while talking to him).

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of

No argument here. Pirri spends way too much time running his trap and as a result does not get the benefit of the doubt on penalties and especially when it comes to getting tossed from faceoffs. There were several games where he got tossed from almost every faceoff for yapping at the officials. I've seen him get warned on several occasions to shut up or he'd get a misconduct (down to the ref making the motion for misconduct while talking to him).

You said it better than I did GRuss. I neglected to mention the faceoffs, but that hurt us big time down the stretch too...he did indeed get tossed from a majority of the faceoffs in several games. As I said, I know Pirri will learn from this and Seth sure as heck will reiterate the need for him to take a deep breathe and not open his mouth whenever the urge strikes him.

 

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

I respectfully disagree with both of you. Baker should be mature enough to stop the rabbit ears routine. If he has trouble with Pirri's mouth he should talk to SA. There was a scrum in game two in the net area and baker called off BP from blueline area for stuff the Brown players were doing. The faceoff thing is all about the refs. They need to stop that and drop the puck, it disturbs the flow of the game. It calls attention to them and that's why they do it. My major beef is the targeting stuff. How many times did they call Jerry for embellishment? I think they sit in that ref's room and say "hey boys, remember to watch for embellishment tonight, its RPI". A good ref is not part of the game, they should be a neutral observer and let the game come to them. I look forward to your thoughts. See WS the Lithium is working for me

 

[AspyDad]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

This is the craziest idea I've ever heard, at won't point do we stop fooling with the game?When we don't regognize it any more !The game is just fine the way it is. In fact I think it was better before USA Hockey started to meddle w/it 10 or so years ago.We are slowley approaching the point where records are going to be like comparing apples and oranges.My suggestion is let's take the cages off and have at it Old Time Hockey Baby!!!!!!!!!!! ENOUGH is ENOUGH !!!!!!!!

Spot on troyboy. The cages create a false sense of security and players are more likely to go higher with the sticks with the full cage. The half shield is more than sufficient. troyboy comments often remind me of what Reggie Dunlop would say.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

1. crashing into the boards because they've been on their skates too long?
2. And, I know this comparison is going to be a little bit of a stretch, and you're going to rip me for it, but the midget / mite leagues I know of / have experience with can't afford to pay for the ice time to have the ice resurfaced between each period. They don't wait for the end of the game, they use the Zamboni before the third period. Why? Because the kids' legs are tired and the chance of injury goes up if the ice isn't cleaned.
3. Yes. I say it's going to lead to more scoring. I'm also saying that it's a terrible idea, the goals are cheap, there's a risk of injury, star players are less likely to be used on the PK, and there's no issue where fans are being turned off of the game because the scoring is too low.
4. No, it's not the same situation. If the opposing team has an empty net, you shoot for the goal. You also don't shoot it so high that it's playable / not icing; that destroys the whole purpose of shooting for the goal. Also also, empty net in the last minute of the game != power play. Not even close. In fact, just about as laughable of a comparison as my mites comparison earlier.

Burgie, I'll comment on these in order but please don't take this too seriously. I realize there is more than one decent argument to be made. Anyhow with respect to your points...
1. The next time I see a skilled player crash into the boards because he is too tired will be my first. And when I see it I will suspect narcolespsy first.
2. I know of no mite leagues that re-surface between periods. Midget perhaps. You do realize that Mites are 8 and under while midgets are 16 year olds right? I can see it at the Midget level only because the game gets too slow from the snow - and yes it could be a good time for a rest. But that is after what, 30 minutes of play? Certainly not 2. So yes it is a big stretch.
3. I respect your opinion on this it's a perfectly valid viewpoint.
4. Not quite the same but close. Adam Oates used to be great at this when he played for the Bruins. Instead of firing on the empty net and risking an icing he would flip the puck out to the neutral zone. It is a skill that you see used in the NHL all the time these days.

All of that said, I fully understand the other side of the argument. I think it would be fun to see how it worked out. Maybe they can try it in a few of the OOC games.

 

[turk181]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

just to get off the rule changes for a minute...I was wondering, if Jerry D plays for the US WJr's again what games might he miss? The Tournament starts Dec. 26 with the Gold Game Jan.5th. He would miss the 2 games at Ala.Hunt. (Dec. 30-31). RPI then resumes its ECAC sched. w/home games Jan. 7 (Clark) & Jan.8 (St.Law). If the US team plays for the Gold again (Jan 5) would SA give him the weekend off like he did this past year?...just wondering

 

[burgie12]

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

Re: RPI 2010 Off-Season III -- How we learned to stop worrying and love the Class of '14

1. The next time I see a skilled player crash into the boards because he is too tired will be my first. And when I see it I will suspect narcolespsy first.

I didn't say that players would crash into the boards on their own. Pressure from opponents (they are on the PP, after all), combined with tired legs and poor positioning would be the main cause. Although, I would believe narcolepsy, too...

2. I know of no mite leagues that re-surface between periods. Midget perhaps. You do realize that Mites are 8 and under while midgets are 16 year olds right? I can see it at the Midget level only because the game gets too slow from the snow - and yes it could be a good time for a rest. But that is after what, 30 minutes of play? Certainly not 2. So yes it is a big stretch.

Like I said, the argument was a stretch. It's not only time for a rest, it's also an effort to make the ice smooth, reducing the risk of needless injuries. And, I did not understand the age groups. The league my cousin (11-12) plays in was my basis for this comment. Now I realize I meant squirt / peewee (or I should not have used generalities).

All of that said, I fully understand the other side of the argument. I think it would be fun to see how it worked out. Maybe they can try it in a few of the OOC games.

I'd agree if these changes were only used in OOC games / exhibitions / on a trial basis. Unfortunately, these rule changes are almost assuredly a fixture in all of the game for the coming two years without a serious intervention by the coaches or College Hockey, Inc. (and why would the PROP listen to the coaches if the Rules Committee didn't). That is what I find most troubling.

just to get off the rule changes for a minute...I was wondering, if Jerry D plays for the US WJr's again what games might he miss?

I suspect that JD'A will definitely be back for the game against SLU(t), with potential for the game against (massacre over) CCT, just as he was last season. In fact, since the tournament will be in Buffalo instead of Middle-of-Nowhere, Canada, he won't be as tired from travel / longing for home cooking as last season, and he may be back for the massacre.