RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Absolutely-and refs have to be evaluated. There are several linesmen who wold just love to be refs and are just waiting for openings.

I absolutely agree 100% with this. I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to coaches and players as per AD's suggestion, but there definitely has to be some form of quality assurance, if there is not already (which I'm sure there is). I know I've suggested random audits many a time on here, but for games that are either televised or broadcast via B2, maybe an oversight panel of sorts to review those games. Obviously some yearly training, but perhaps some "remedial counseling" after reviews/audits that did not fare so well, also definitely rotate in/out the refs and linesmen, I know some of our former players have fulfilled both roles on the side. Most importantly, though, as much as we may have such a high demand for accountability, you really have to have a love for the game to go around to various arenas and put on the stripes.

 

[vicious]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I am for a move out of the ECAC, but not because of the officiating. The league is losing ground every year. It is underfunded, under appreciated and there is little or no promotion. They have a lousy TV "deal" and a weak commissioner. I would like to see a reshuffle of the leagues with RPI in with non-Ivies.

Me too. Look at NCAA tournament history. The last time an ECAC team even *made* the title game was 1990 (Colgate). Meanwhile Hockey East teams have played in that game 19 times during that stretch and have won the title seven times. As Jasma mentions poor TV deal, no promotion, and overshadow by other leagues has taken a toll.

We've had this debate before and I know the arguments from the other side and the opposition from RPI's faculty last time it came up. Just can't see how RPI is better off in this league than in Hockey East (assuming they'd go there instead of creating a new league with some of the eastern non-Ivies).

 

[ServinisScores]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Me too. Look at NCAA tournament history. The last time an ECAC team even *made* the title game was 1990 (Colgate). Meanwhile Hockey East teams have played in that game 19 times during that stretch and have won the title seven times. As Jasma mentions poor TV deal, no promotion, and overshadow by other leagues has taken a toll.

We've had this debate before and I know the arguments from the other side and the opposition from RPI's faculty last time it came up. Just can't see how RPI is better off in this league than in Hockey East (assuming they'd go there instead of creating a new league with some of the eastern non-Ivies).

I third the motion. Join HE because the overall level of the ECAC hockey has dropped so far. If you think joining HE is a good idea because of the refereeing, you need your head examined. It's no better by any measure, and I would imagine it would take one period of HE play before the 'Boston bias' posts started coming at a rapid rate.

On Pierre Belanger, his inconsistency and flair would make today's reffing look extremely competent. His playing to the fans was entertaining, but maddening.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Just wanted to mention that the women's team forced overtime with a goal in the last minute to tie Niagara 1-1. That was the final score.

There certainly have been a lot of goals and no-goals in the last minute recently.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Just wanted to mention that the women's team forced overtime with a goal in the last minute to tie Niagara 1-1. That was the final score.

There certainly have been a lot of goals and no-goals in the last minute recently.

As Coach said (potentially paraphrasing), we like to do things at the last minute.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

For the football fans-this is one of the toughest days-at the end of the first half St John Fisher leads RPI 42-6. SJF has amased almost 400 yards in offense so far. This one is a big mismatch for us as SJF is a powerhouse who was nationally rated most of the year. This score so far reminds me of what we faced almost every week back in the early 60's. It sure looks like our perfect 8-0 record in ECAC playoff games is now going to show a first loss. Still a successful season all things considered beating Union and Hobart at home on consecutive weeks.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Final football score 56-13 and 3 fumbles and 2 interceptions certainly did not help. Still a successful season and another winning season for coach King.

 

[troyboy]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Replay is coming in next year. Officials are rated by Stewart and coaches. I'm not sure sure adding players would help. Do you actually know anything about the training they go through? These guys are human. Some are good, some average, some not so much. I doubt that the officiating would be significantly better in HEA.
I am for a move out of the ECAC, but not because of the officiating. The league is losing ground every year. It is underfunded, under appreciated and there is little or no promotion. They have a lousy TV "deal" and a weak commissioner. I would like to see a reshuffle of the leagues with RPI in with non-Ivies.

Spot on...Thats about as good as you can sat it in a hunderd words or less

 

[GRussinko]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Final football score 56-13 and 3 fumbles and 2 interceptions certainly did not help. Still a successful season and another winning season for coach King.

Worst loss since a 47-0 rout by Hobart in 1972. Last time the Engineers surrendered 56 was in a 56-48 3OT loss to Hobart in 2005. Before that? 82-6 loss to UVM in 1962. Certainly a tough note on which to end the season.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Worst loss since a 47-0 rout by Hobart in 1972. Last time the Engineers surrendered 56 was in a 56-48 3OT loss to Hobart in 2005. Before that? 82-6 loss to UVM in 1962. Certainly a tough note on which to end the season.

That 82-6 loss was typical of the scores in that era for us. We did own the longest winless streak in football at the time.(43 games without a win)

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Me too. Look at NCAA tournament history. The last time an ECAC team even *made* the title game was 1990 (Colgate). Meanwhile Hockey East teams have played in that game 19 times during that stretch and have won the title seven times. As Jasma mentions poor TV deal, no promotion, and overshadow by other leagues has taken a toll.

We've had this debate before and I know the arguments from the other side and the opposition from RPI's faculty last time it came up. Just can't see how RPI is better off in this league than in Hockey East (assuming they'd go there instead of creating a new league with some of the eastern non-Ivies).

I don't disagree with any of the comments regarding the ECAC its officiating and its leadership, or lack thereof.

That said, without knowing the pulse of the relationships between with the gowns and the Athletic Dept., you can't make a complete argument for a move, without accounting for how you're going to convince the gowns why it a good idea. Depending on their mood, renewing a " let's move to HE" push might be a non-starter.

The caliber of RPI's athletic programs and facilities have grown/changed greatly since the last HE push. I find it a bit hard to believe that the Admin. would consider allowing men's hockey to switch leagues without considering wholesale changes to all athletic teams in the Department. This of course is a far larger conversation.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Since SA has been coach, we haven't successfully recruited any hockey players from Europe.

That's because many of them don't like finishing their checks...don't believe me? Ask Don Cherry.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

...but like Ralph said I think the admin likes being associated with the Ivy teams and other D3 schools in the state, so unless both sides want each other badly enough, I dont see a move happening.

Exactly right. Agree completely - this is where the rubber meets the road for the proposal.

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

The school's administration has recently been trying to stray away from just the NY/NE crowd and have been trying to bring in students from other parts of the country, even the world...

I don't think this is a new development. Haven't schools been striving for more varied/balanced geographic mix for some time?

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

That's certianly possible. I think's it more likely that once the dust settles in the west the CCHA is going to need to raid a few eastern schools on the western edges (the Niagaras of the world) and then it becomes does AHA or ECAC fold and how does the dust settle from that...

How would potential moves by Niagara and/or RIT cause the ECAC to fold?

 

[Wicked Slappaahs]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I would like to commend Ed on this piece. He asked all the questions I have had concerning the officials in all sports. Unfortunately, he did not get any answers. That's typical. Players make mistakes and they have to pay for it with less ice time or being sat down for a game or two. Coaches get suspended for their mistakes, officials get ???. As for Hicks, I don't think that it is coincidence. Don't get me wrong, I am not accusing him of anything. I believe that he has a problem with RPI personally, and that his judgement is clouded. I certainly hope that that is the case, because if he is doing this consciously, he should be removed.
It is time that all officials be accountable for their mistakes as is the rest of the world.
As for the commissioner, he is useless. JMO

I'll stand corrected, but I was operating under the assumption that Seth's suspension had as much to do with him commenting to Schott that it was the refs that should be worried (I'm paraphrasing) as it did with showing the video.

There's one glaring line of questions that Ed appears to have missed. Weaver doesn't appear to have asked Hagwell why the ECAC has not yet mandated the use of goal mouth cameras?, Has the proposal been discussed with the coaches?, and When can ECAC fans expect to see cameras? Those would have been glaringly obvious questions to me, which Ed apparently never broached with Hagwell.

Refs make bad calls all of the time. Just like TDs in the NFL, the easiest hockey calls to confirm or overturn are goals. The instances when I've seen video replay used (during TW games and tourney games) the reviews were handled quickly and decisively.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

That's because many of them don't like finishing their checks...don't believe me? Ask Don Cherry.

But there has to be a couple of fellows in Eastern Europe that want to become engineers-especially with a free ride for tuition.

 

[pensfan08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

How would potential moves by Niagara and/or RIT cause the ECAC to fold?

I wasn't saying specifically that the ECAC would fold, but rather depending on how many teams are poached and from where by the CCHA then as leagues try to get back to the magic 12 teams that conferences seem to strive for, it seems that only 1 of the 2 can survive. At that point it leaves QU, Union, and RPI as the 3 easternmost non-Ivy schools to fight for 2 possible HE spaces, of course they could just as likely pick up one or two of the New England AHA teams. As to which league survives, it seems like AHA with its scholarship limits would be ideal for the Ivys since they don't give "athletic" scholarships (some athletes are apparently much better scholars than their high school grades imply).

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Interesting weekend in ECAC hockey even though we did not play. It does not look like the road trip to central NY is the hardest road trip in ECAC hockey this year. Brown seemed to do quite well out there. I would doubt Cornell gets any votes this week in the USCHO poll. This is going to be quite an interesting year.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I wasn't saying specifically that the ECAC would fold, but rather depending on how many teams are poached and from where by the CCHA then as leagues try to get back to the magic 12 teams that conferences seem to strive for, it seems that only 1 of the 2 can survive. At that point it leaves QU, Union, and RPI as the 3 easternmost non-Ivy schools to fight for 2 possible HE spaces, of course they could just as likely pick up one or two of the New England AHA teams. As to which league survives, it seems like AHA with its scholarship limits would be ideal for the Ivys since they don't give "athletic" scholarships (some athletes are apparently much better scholars than their high school grades imply).

The Ivies are all going to stay together. That is one given that I really don't think one can make a case against. That is why all the Harvard-to-HEA threads over the year are laughable. IMHO, the only thing that currently makes sense for the Ivies, besides for the status quo in the ECAC, is to become is to become a separate league. The only ways that seems likely to happen is if they can't comment with the rest of the ECAC or if the rest of the ECAC wants something that they can't live with. They seem to compete quite well with the 6 non-Ivy ECAC schools. In post recent years their combined record has been better. They went along with the desire of the non-Ivies to go to 29-game schedules awhile back. They live with the non-Ivies starting early. What other changes could the non-Ivies want that is legal in the NCAA?