RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I think one question I want to ask, and I know I'll probably get slammed for this: why are we looking to join Hockey East? Is it to get into a league with national prestige, or are we trying to escape a league that, in some of our views, may possess totalitarian-like leadership? What isn't to say that we'd see the exact same thing in Hockey East? I'm just trying to understand what the argument is. If it's to get some national attention and to help recruiting, then let's look into it.

Also, regarding NC games, economy has to be taken into consideration. There's already articles out there (one was referenced on the AIC thread) about college budgets and athletics. If more NC games are available, will the schools have the budget to either travel or reimburse another team's travel? The WCHA is up to 12 teams, and the CCHA had been 12 teams for a while, but they still play 6-8 NC games a year.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I think one question I want to ask, and I know I'll probably get slammed for this: why are we looking to join Hockey East? Is it to get into a league with national prestige, or are we trying to escape a league that, in some of our views, may possess totalitarian-like leadership? What isn't to say that we'd see the exact same thing in Hockey East? I'm just trying to understand what the argument is. If it's to get some national attention and to help recruiting, then let's look into it.

Also, regarding NC games, economy has to be taken into consideration. There's already articles out there (one was referenced on the AIC thread) about college budgets and athletics. If more NC games are available, will the schools have the budget to either travel or reimburse another team's travel? The WCHA is up to 12 teams, and the CCHA had been 12 teams for a while, but they still play 6-8 NC games a year.

You won't get slammed by me, I was asking myself the same questions. I like the teams in the ECAC. I would not like to see us anywhere else.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I think one question I want to ask, and I know I'll probably get slammed for this: why are we looking to join Hockey East?

I'm not. I'm trying to boot the ivies and bring back the real ECAC.

In the end it's mainly just idle banter during a week with no hockey.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I would like to commend Ed on this piece. He asked all the questions I have had concerning the officials in all sports. Unfortunately, he did not get any answers. That's typical. Players make mistakes and they have to pay for it with less ice time or being sat down for a game or two. Coaches get suspended for their mistakes, officials get ???. As for Hicks, I don't think that it is coincidence. Don't get me wrong, I am not accusing him of anything. I believe that he has a problem with RPI personally, and that his judgement is clouded. I certainly hope that that is the case, because if he is doing this consciously, he should be removed.
It is time that all officials be accountable for their mistakes as is the rest of the world.
As for the commissioner, he is useless. JMO

OK, there was Friday's game, and there was the interference two years ago. What other examples are there of this referee having "a problem with RPI"? I'm not necessarily trying to come to his defense; it's more of a devil's advocate look at the situation. Was the call incorrect? Probably. What do you expect the ECAC to do? Once instant replay has been instituted, you'll probably still see the problem. If you sack a referee, where do you find a new referee? Take that into account.

Also, Hagwell is supposed to be the primary representative of ECAC Hockey. You expect him to poo-poo his own business that he leads? It's just like Union College's former leader saying that the school's representatives were happy to see the hockey team at a 40% winning percentage, and look what happened to that person. Not being able to take criticism is one thing that can (and should) be addressed, but to call out your own business is just plain foolish. The most I would EVER expect the leadership of the ECAC to say is, "Your valued criticism has been noted, and we will consider it when determining our league's practices. Thank you."

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I'm not. I'm trying to boot the ivies and bring back the real ECAC.

In the end it's mainly just idle banter during a week with no hockey.

What about an Empire league? Or do you think it would create a bigger issue because half of the teams would be D-III play-ups? (RPI, Union, SLU, Clarkson, RIT assuming they would want in)

Honestly, I think 16 teams would just be too large for a league.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

We should think about it, and the athletic department probably is, but it isn't like the HEA fans think that there refs are that great either. I don't know if it still is the case, but in the past, some refs worked both leagues.

There are other problems with going to HEA. Off the top of my head:

1. We don't have any natural rivalries there. One could say that we have a rivalry with BU because we play them often, but BU's main rival is BC, and after them are probably NU, UNH, Maine, and perhaps others. UVM was our travel partner years ago, so some sort of rivalry could start, but we don't have much in common with them. As I have said before, we had a one-game rivalry with PC.

The ECAC is made up of 12 private schools. The HEA is currently 2 private schools, 5 state schools, and 3 church schools.

2. I doubt that the HEA would want to go with 11 teams. So, someone else would have to be added. QU would probably go, but they aren't our rival either. (They might be on the women's side to a degree.) Union would probably follow us, but would the HEA want them?

3. We're centrally located in the ECAC. We'd be on the periphery of the HEA. The ECAC tourney might go back to Albany -- the EHA tourney would never go there.

4. Unless things have changed, and I don't recall anyone here ever saying it has, the RPI admins really like being associated with the Ivies.


Good things about switching.

1. There are certainly benefits as far as recruiting is concerned in playing in a better hockey league. I wonder if we even try recruiting in the Boston area these days. If we are, we are having better results in Minnesota than there.

2. Also, our average home attendence would probably go up playing better teams overall. Some of the Ivies don't draw well in Troy. That isn't saying that Merrimack or UML would draw well either, but they probably would overall.

3. The HEA has a longer league schedule. Currently we have a hard time filling 12 or more OOC slots. Granted that the ECAC is apparently considering adding extra games vs. travel partners.

One thing that I forgot to say about joining HEA is that it would raise RPI's profile in New England and help get more students from there to hear about us. Whether that would counter the assocation with the Ivies as a selling point is a topic for debate.

Then again, I remember the start of my Freshmen year in October 1964. I couldn't believe how many students were not rooting for the Cardinals but were rooting against the Yankees. (I was quite naive back then. )

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

One thing that I forgot to say about joining HEA is that it would raise RPI's profile in New England and help get more students from there to hear about us. Whether that would counter the assocation with the Ivies as a selling point is a topic for debate.

Then again, I remember the start of my Freshmen year in October 1964. I couldn't believe how many students were not rooting for the Cardinals but were rooting against the Yankees. (I was quite naive back then. )

The school's administration has recently been trying to stray away from just the NY/NE crowd and have been trying to bring in students from other parts of the country, even the world. I think selling this reasoning would be a card for the administration to say that they would NOT want to join Hockey East.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

The school's administration has recently been trying to stray away from just the NY/NE crowd and have been trying to bring in students from other parts of the country, even the world. I think selling this reasoning would be a card for the administration to say that they would NOT want to join Hockey East.

Since SA has been coach, we haven't successfully recruited any hockey players from Europe.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Since SA has been coach, we haven't successfully recruited any hockey players from Europe.

This is true, but I believe the school's administration is trying to improve the general population of students, and that's where the concern would come. I'm sure half of the students that walk the approach for the first time in August don't know the difference between a blue line and a clothes line.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

RPi posted a link to the NHL article which was posted here recently http://www.rpiathletics.com/news/2010/11/18/MHOCK_1118101602.aspx. They specifically brought out the line "Only 13 other colleges are charter members of the NCAA since 1948." Does anyone know what that is in reference to? Is it a hockey reference or an athletic reference? What are the other 13 schools?

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

The school's administration has recently been trying to stray away from just the NY/NE crowd and have been trying to bring in students from other parts of the country, even the world. I think selling this reasoning would be a card for the administration to say that they would NOT want to join Hockey East.

And that's because the alternative is to stay in a league with one team from NJ?

I think the point is where are the hockey players at - not where are the students. If you want to attract students all you need to do is improve your rankings academically. The league that your team plays in doesn't really matter much - if you are looking for serious students (which I think RPI is).

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

This is true, but I believe the school's administration is trying to improve the general population of students, and that's where the concern would come. I'm sure half of the students that walk the approach for the first time in August don't know the difference between a blue line and a clothes line.

I agree with both statements, but hockey players would count.

 

[jmhusker]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Hockey only is my guess. The NCAA started in 1906 and we weren't in it then

 

[pensfan08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I think the reason that people are talking about Hockey East is two fold, first most people are fed up with the lack of improvement on official in ECAC despite the hiring of an "expert" like Stewart, and the big reason is that most people recognize that for better or worse the Big Ten Hockey conference is coming. When that happens there will be a domino effect in conference membership. It's better to be proactive and try to move to a possibly better or at least more secure conference now when there may not be as much competition to jump over. We don't want to end up like Kansas and Missouri almost did with the recent football re-alignment.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

RPi posted a link to the NHL article which was posted here recently http://www.rpiathletics.com/news/2010/11/18/MHOCK_1118101602.aspx. They specifically brought out the line "Only 13 other colleges are charter members of the NCAA since 1948." Does anyone know what that is in reference to? Is it a hockey reference or an athletic reference? What are the other 13 schools?

I would assume this would be a hockey reference, as I don't think we were charter members for football or basketball. Perhaps it has to do with charter members that still have teams to this day.

 

[redhead18]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I think one question I want to ask, and I know I'll probably get slammed for this: why are we looking to join Hockey East? Is it to get into a league with national prestige, or are we trying to escape a league that, in some of our views, may possess totalitarian-like leadership? What isn't to say that we'd see the exact same thing in Hockey East? I'm just trying to understand what the argument is. If it's to get some national attention and to help recruiting, then let's look into it.

I honestly think the hockey team would flourish in HEA with Appert behind the bench. Sure it would be good thing to move to a league with more national exposure/prestige but like Ralph said I think the admin likes being associated with the Ivy teams and other D3 schools in the state, so unless both sides want each other badly enough, I dont see a move happening.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I think the reason that people are talking about Hockey East is two fold, first most people are fed up with the lack of improvement on official in ECAC despite the hiring of an "expert" like Stewart, and the big reason is that most people recognize that for better or worse the Big Ten Hockey conference is coming. When that happens there will be a domino effect in conference membership. It's better to be proactive and try to move to a possibly better or at least more secure conference now when there may not be as much competition to jump over. We don't want to end up like Kansas and Missouri almost did with the recent football re-alignment.

The only thing I'd see with an eastern re-alignment would be ivy schools breaking off and then some Atlantic teams (especially Niagara) wanting to get into a different conference where full scholarships are allowed. The only thing the CHA folding did in the east was just crowd up Atlantic.

 

[pensfan08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

The only thing I'd see with an eastern re-alignment would be ivy schools breaking off and then some Atlantic teams (especially Niagara) wanting to get into a different conference where full scholarships are allowed. The only thing the CHA folding did in the east was just crowd up Atlantic.

That's certianly possible. I think's it more likely that once the dust settles in the west the CCHA is going to need to raid a few eastern schools on the western edges (the Niagaras of the world) and then it becomes does AHA or ECAC fold and how does the dust settle from that. Since there are more schools between ECAC and AHA that don't give or give very limited scholarships I see the resulting AHA/ECAC successor having scholarship limitiations which is not something that I think RPI hockey would want.

 

[redhead18]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

The only thing I'd see with an eastern re-alignment would be ivy schools breaking off and then some Atlantic teams (especially Niagara) wanting to get into a different conference where full scholarships are allowed. The only thing the CHA folding did in the east was just crowd up Atlantic.

RIT just started fundraising for a new arena, I cant see them staying in AHA forever. Where are they gonna go? ECAC. That makes 13 teams, bring in Niagara to make 14 and now ECAC is to crowded. I just cant see the Ivys breaking away with only 6 members, if Penn ever wanted to start their program up then I could see it happening.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

That's certianly possible. I think's it more likely that once the dust settles in the west the CCHA is going to need to raid a few eastern schools on the western edges (the Niagaras of the world) and then it becomes does AHA or ECAC fold and how does the dust settle from that. Since there are more schools between ECAC and AHA that don't give or give very limited scholarships I see the resulting AHA/ECAC successor having scholarship limitiations which is not something that I think RPI hockey would want.

If anyone, I would think they'd first go after Robert Morris and/or Mercyhurst. Maybe Air Force as well as a potential WCHA addition.

With some time, I may have to try drawing this one out, and see what the possibilities are.