RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I would assume this would be a hockey reference, as I don't think we were charter members for football or basketball. Perhaps it has to do with charter members that still have teams to this day.

There are more than 13. I think Dartmouth, Yale, Harvard, Brown, Princeton, Colgate, BC, BU, SLU, Clarkson, Northeastern, Michigan, Michigan State, Colorado College, Minnesota, MTU, and North Dakota.

 

[Jasma]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Great piece of journalism. Good for Eddie for calling it like it is. pulitizer prize stuff. I really think we need to think Hockey East.

It is a good column, with one exception. He forgot to metion that when Schott asked Appert about how the league would react to his showing the video Appert reportedly said something to the effect that the official should be worried. In my opinion that was probably the action that triggered the suspension. Of, course we can only speculate, because leagues do not comment on those types of issues.

 

[jericho]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Just a reminder that we'll have the women's game on WRPI tonight. It's the only game in town.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

OK, there was Friday's game, and there was the interference two years ago. What other examples are there of this referee having "a problem with RPI"? I'm not necessarily trying to come to his defense; it's more of a devil's advocate look at the situation. Was the call incorrect? Probably. What do you expect the ECAC to do? Once instant replay has been instituted, you'll probably still see the problem. If you sack a referee, where do you find a new referee? Take that into account.

Also, Hagwell is supposed to be the primary representative of ECAC Hockey. You expect him to poo-poo his own business that he leads? It's just like Union College's former leader saying that the school's representatives were happy to see the hockey team at a 40% winning percentage, and look what happened to that person. Not being able to take criticism is one thing that can (and should) be addressed, but to call out your own business is just plain foolish. The most I would EVER expect the leadership of the ECAC to say is, "Your valued criticism has been noted, and we will consider it when determining our league's practices. Thank you."

FD08, I don't have any other incidents to point to, but the emphasis that he puts on his erroneous calls indicates that he is enjoying what he is doing. Again, I don't think that he is consciously making these calls.
As for Hagwell, He is the leader of the league, and his job is to make it the best possible league. Not just backing bad decisions because it might make the league look bad. (see General Motors).
Leaders take the bull by the horns and fix things, they don't just slide them under the rug.
Oh, and one last thing. You replace a bad referee. I am sure that there are feeder programs for every league. You don't just keep him because there is no replacement. I do like the idea of job security though.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

FD08, I don't have any other incidents to point to, but the emphasis that he puts on his erroneous calls indicates that he is enjoying what he is doing. Again, I don't think that he is consciously making these calls.
As for Hagwell, He is the leader of the league, and his job is to make it the best possible league. Not just backing bad decisions because it might make the league look bad. (see General Motors).
Leaders take the bull by the horns and fix things, they don't just slide them under the rug.
Oh, and one last thing. You replace a bad referee. I am sure that there are feeder programs for every league. You don't just keep him because there is no replacement. I do like the idea of job security though.

In spite of how I feel some times-refs are human beings. They are susceptible to all the human foibles. Having watched and listened to RPI for as many years as I have I am sure I can go back in history and find refs that seem to make more mistakes that affect RPI adversely than others. Can they be prejudicial?-sure. Can they make honest mistakes?-sure. I am still convinced that Pierre Belanger and Mike Noeth over the years made more bad calls against us than anyone else (although Kotyra is reaching that level). It does seem at first blush that this young fellow who has done this twice in games against Union has been a little obvious about his calls. It certainly bears watching. 2 strikes might be understandable and explainable-but a third strike should be cause of in depth investigation by the league. I agree with you but am willing to observe him carerfully if we have him as a ref again.

BTW-Sure am glad that college hockey is not the betting and point spread sport that basketball or football is.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

In spite of how I feel some times-refs are human beings. They are susceptible to all the human foibles. Having watched and listened to RPI for as many years as I have I am sure I can go back in history and find refs that seem to make more mistakes that affect RPI adversely than others. Can they be prejudicial?-sure. Can they make honest mistakes?-sure. I am still convinced that Pierre Belanger and Mike Noeth over the years made more bad calls against us than anyone else (although Kotyra is reaching that level). It does seem at first blush that this young fellow who has done this twice in games against Union has been a little obvious about his calls. It certainly bears watching. 2 strikes might be understandable and explainable-but a third strike should be cause of in depth investigation by the league. I agree with you but am willing to observe him carerfully if we have him as a ref again.

BTW-Sure am glad that college hockey is not the betting and point spread sport that basketball or football is.

Let me be clear about this. I am not calling for his firing. He is human and he will make mistakes. I just want the league to address this and find out if there is a prejudice of any kind. I remember Noeth, and he was just a bad referee. I am really happy that I don't have to watch him anymore. I too am glad that this is not a betting sport. That could get ugly.

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Let me be clear about this. I am not calling for his firing. He is human and he will make mistakes. I just want the league to address this and find out if there is a prejudice of any kind. I remember Noeth, and he was just a bad referee. I am really happy that I don't have to watch him anymore. I too am glad that this is not a betting sport. That could get ugly.

Do you mean that there is no money involved in PtC?

 

[Waite21]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

This post is directed to FlagDUDE08.

FlagDUDE, every one of your posts is accompanied by an invitation to send a message to you via Skype. I don't think anyone else on the board posts with a similar invitation - or if there is anyone else who does, they don't post nearly as often as you do.

The problem is that your invitation intrudes into the text of your posts, making portions of those posts difficult to read.

This is just a minor inconvenience. If it is important to you that everyone have the opportunity to send messages to you via Skype, then by all means keep doing what you're doing.

But if it isn't that important, could you please consider getting that invitation out of the way?

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

This post is directed to FlagDUDE08.

FlagDUDE, every one of your posts is accompanied by an invitation to send a message to you via Skype. I don't think anyone else on the board posts with a similar invitation - or if there is anyone else who does, they don't post nearly as often as you do.

The problem is that your invitation intrudes into the text of your posts, making portions of those posts difficult to read.

This is just a minor inconvenience. If it is important to you that everyone have the opportunity to send messages to you via Skype, then by all means keep doing what you're doing.

But if it isn't that important, could you please consider getting that invitation out of the way?

That's weird. I assume that you mean the icon on the left, where I have an AIM icon (which I should get rid of). The Skype icon doesn't cause me any problems

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Let me be clear about this. I am not calling for his firing. He is human and he will make mistakes. I just want the league to address this and find out if there is a prejudice of any kind. I remember Noeth, and he was just a bad referee. I am really happy that I don't have to watch him anymore. I too am glad that this is not a betting sport. That could get ugly.

I wish you could have experienced Pierre. Your blood would have boiled.

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I wish you could have experienced Pierre. Your blood would have boiled.

I have seen enough bad refereeing in my time, I don't need anymore.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

FD08, I don't have any other incidents to point to, but the emphasis that he puts on his erroneous calls indicates that he is enjoying what he is doing. Again, I don't think that he is consciously making these calls.
As for Hagwell, He is the leader of the league, and his job is to make it the best possible league. Not just backing bad decisions because it might make the league look bad. (see General Motors).
Leaders take the bull by the horns and fix things, they don't just slide them under the rug.
Oh, and one last thing. You replace a bad referee. I am sure that there are feeder programs for every league. You don't just keep him because there is no replacement. I do like the idea of job security though.

If there are people out there that want to ref, fine! Let's get them in! I know Litterio is pretty new to this league (at least I haven't seen him do RPI games before last year), and I'm sure there are more that want to show their love for the game. I don't know how many people are looking for this kind of a side job, though.

I agree that there is something that needs to be done, but what I'm saying is that I don't think they aren't doing something about it. I'm sure there's certain measures you have to take to not only remedy a problem, but keep interest in people wanting a job with the league. Is Paul Stewart on the road every night of an ECAC home game auditing the refs at various arenas?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

This post is directed to FlagDUDE08.

FlagDUDE, every one of your posts is accompanied by an invitation to send a message to you via Skype. I don't think anyone else on the board posts with a similar invitation - or if there is anyone else who does, they don't post nearly as often as you do.

The problem is that your invitation intrudes into the text of your posts, making portions of those posts difficult to read.

This is just a minor inconvenience. If it is important to you that everyone have the opportunity to send messages to you via Skype, then by all means keep doing what you're doing.

But if it isn't that important, could you please consider getting that invitation out of the way?

I think that has to do with the fact that, where users can insert their screen name on various messaging services, I choose to add mine for Skype. I know at some locations it shows up as a dead link and intrudes the text, but at some locations it looks just fine. It's not all that much of an importance to include this, just a matter of convenience for others. I will look into disabling this for myself.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Their response to this whole affair has been unsatisfactory. You would think they are doing something but things never get better, so I don't think they are doing anything. Wishing doesn't make it so.

OK, time for you to play Mr. Hagwell and/or Mr. Stewart for a day. What would you do?

 

[engineerhockeyfan]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

OK, time for you to play Mr. Hagwell and/or Mr. Stewart for a day. What would you do?

The first thing I would do is institute instant replay in all arenas.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

BTW- Are you going to DBQFS game?

Yes, I do plan on going to that game.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

The first thing I would do is institute instant replay in all arenas.

Absolutely-and refs have to be evaluated. There are several linesmen who wold just love to be refs and are just waiting for openings.

 

[Jasma]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

I wish you could have experienced Pierre. Your blood would have boiled.

Pierre Belanger? Very entertaining. full of himself and just an average official, but very entertaining.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Pierre Belanger? Very entertaining. full of himself and just an average official, but very entertaining.

I remember one game at HFH where he got clocked in the head and knocked out cold. The cheering just would not stop. They removed him on a stretcher and instead of a round of applause as he left, you could hear all the boos. Yes indeed though-he was full of himself.

 

[Jasma]

Re: RPI 2010-11 Part II: RPI, the Other Team, the Refs -- We're outnumbered 10 to 6.

Instant replay is a good start. 360 degree appraisal feedback. Refs should be rated by Mr. Stewart, Coaches and yes even players. I would give upperclassmen a shot at that. This works in private industry where even customers rate performance of employees. I'm sure that better training could be done by Mr. Stewart., film review, etc. Mostly, stop compounding mistakes made by suspending coaches for speaking the truth. I am not using hyperbole when I say I think the integrity of the ECAC it at stake.

BTW- Are you going to DBQFS game?

Replay is coming in next year. Officials are rated by Stewart and coaches. I'm not sure sure adding players would help. Do you actually know anything about the training they go through? These guys are human. Some are good, some average, some not so much. I doubt that the officiating would be significantly better in HEA.
I am for a move out of the ECAC, but not because of the officiating. The league is losing ground every year. It is underfunded, under appreciated and there is little or no promotion. They have a lousy TV "deal" and a weak commissioner. I would like to see a reshuffle of the leagues with RPI in with non-Ivies.