>>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

[RIT Winters]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

I don't agree with your conclusion at all. I'll wait for the video. Maybe it's just an issue with the college rules, but what is he supposed to do? You're supposed to remove the man from the puck. He doesn't leave his feet, his arms aren't high at contact, and it's not at all clear from those pictures alone that any contact from shoulders/arms got the MH player's head principally.

If the majority of the contacting points on Norrish's body aren't connecting with that guys face mask in your mind then I'm not sure what to tell you. He doesn't have to have left his feet, led with his elbows, pulled a knife, or anything else. The penalty was contact to the head, which he most certainly made. Hell, the guy's face mask ended half way up his face (you can't see that in the pics but it was very clear as he was getting up...and putting his helmet back on right).

It doesn't matter if Norrish was trying to hit him in the head or if it was entirely incidental, the rules are if you make contact with the head you're in trouble - the end. Also, AHC hands down suspensions for these things only after review of the video so even without Jablonski they felt it was not a clean hit, and unlike most AHC barns, ours actually has HD feeds so it's not like they were relying on some grainy webcam footage.

 

[jflory81]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

I mean, sure, maybe it's an issue with college hockey's rules in general, but I just don't see what he's supposed to do there. It seems from those pictures that the guy leans forward into his chest as he sees the impact coming. Live, it simply looked like a great open ice hit against the puck carrier. What's Norrish supposed to do, jump out of the way and give up a breakaway if the guy lowers his head and leans forward? Even the boarding rule in many rulebooks has the caveat that the person against the boards bears some responsibility for not putting himself into a vulnerable position (by say turning away from an oncoming check that would otherwise just pin you to the boards).

And like I said earlier, if it was just that, I probably wouldn't have marked it as a poorly officiated game. The 3rd period on the whole was the worst officiating I have ever seen at any level.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

If the call is contact to the head, there's no choice but five. THe NCAA rule book, which you can download for free as a PDF, mandates that it is a major penalty. The officials can call for a game misconduct or game disqualification. The latter includes a one-game suspension.

So ... They either can call contact to the head or they can do like they did when Schuler was crosschecked in the back of the head and call another penalty (and get shown up by the league office).

Here's the rule:
45.1 Contact to the Head - A player shall not make direct contact from any direction with an opposing player’s head or neck area in any manner (including, but not limited to, with the shoulder, stick, elbow, etc.).

PENALTY—Major and game misconduct or disqualification at the discretion of the referee.

 

[jflory81]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

If the call is contact to the head, there's no choice but five. THe NCAA rule book, which you can download for free as a PDF, mandates that it is a major penalty. The officials can call for a game misconduct or game disqualification. The latter includes a one-game suspension.

So ... They either can call contact to the head or they can do like they did when Schuler was crosschecked in the back of the head and call another penalty (and get shown up by the league office).

Here's the rule:
45.1 Contact to the Head - A player shall not make direct contact from any direction with an opposing player’s head or neck area in any manner (including, but not limited to, with the shoulder, stick, elbow, etc.).

PENALTY—Major and game misconduct or disqualification at the discretion of the referee.

While I was mostly talking about the college rules being ridiculous in certain contexts (first sentence I wrote in my last post was "I mean, sure, maybe it's an issue with college hockey's rules in general"), there is another option allowed in the rule book. 45.2 allows for a penalty call of say "roughing - indirect contact to the head" if the contact begins on the arm or shoulder and then follows through to the head in a non-malicious or targeting manner (yes, that's paraphrased). The problem with that is I don't think he committed any other penalty either.

I personally believe that if it wasn't called by the on-ice official that Norrish would not have been suspended by the league. Maybe I'm wrong. :shrug: As I mentioned earlier it was far from my only, or even my strongest complaint.

 

[blazer777]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

USCHO has a sale on Air Jordan's today!

So, he Tigers hit the road after this weeknd, correct? Any thoughts on where they'll land?

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

USCHO has a sale on Air Jordan's today!

So, he Tigers hit the road after this weeknd, correct? Any thoughts on where they'll land?

We have a bye this week and next week will play Mercyhurst, regardless of this week's league outcomes.

 

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

If the call is contact to the head, there's no choice but five. THe NCAA rule book, which you can download for free as a PDF, mandates that it is a major penalty. The officials can call for a game misconduct or game disqualification. The latter includes a one-game suspension.

So ... They either can call contact to the head or they can do like they did when Schuler was crosschecked in the back of the head and call another penalty (and get shown up by the league office).

Here's the rule:
45.1 Contact to the Head - A player shall not make direct contact from any direction with an opposing player’s head or neck area in any manner (including, but not limited to, with the shoulder, stick, elbow, etc.).

PENALTY—Major and game misconduct or disqualification at the discretion of the referee.

What Ed is trying to get at here and I think is getting missed by people trying to call the hit clean is the way rules read and the way it's being enforced, it is the responsibility of the player delivering the hit to avoid making the head a principle point of contact. If you watch the NHL Suspension videos the phrase they always use is "the onus is on {insert player name making hit} to not make the head the principle point of contact or to avoid this hit entirely". Note, I was not at Friday's night game. Given the pictures it seems clear it was a head to head hit and would warrant the 5 minute call and supplemental discipline. The only exception the NHL allows is if the player getting hit suddenly and unexpectedly changes their position at the last second. This is how the game is getting called these days, don't like it fine, but it's actually something you have to take up with the NCAA rules committee not the officials.

I could write a book on the ineptitude of AHA officiating and as made as I can be about them it's not as much as the total lack of discipline by the Tigers this weekend. Now Friday was a tough pill to swallow and the Tiger may have very well been screwed. Regardless you have a chance to secure a point the next night and get out of the regular season with home ice. I did make it to the game down in Erie on Saturday and was really disappointed to see continue lack of discipline. Rick Gotkin's team has been the same for year, just like him. Emotional and playing on the edge and sometimes going over that edge. It's going to get chippy with Mercyhurst, but after Friday night can it. I got so sick of watching guy respond with a glove punch to the face after the whistle and then look surprise when they were escorted to the bench. This is a team that doesn't convert on a high percentage of their grade A scoring chances (lucky for them they produce a lot of chances) and when you do that you can't be giving you opponent free power plays. Your going to have the same Officiating from here to the NCAAs, it sucks, get over it and play the game. I honestly don't know what to expect from RIT in the quarters, but right now have to say they are an underdog to make it to blue cross. And given coming off a defending league title and the promise that this year had shown it would be a great disappointment not to get back to Blue Cross. We are going to find out how tough this program is in two weeks...

 

[StimulisRK]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

I'm DVR'ing the replay Monday on TW so I'll take a look at the incidents then. I completely missed the Kuqali hit - though both of my friends (who are Mercyhurst grads) who were at the game with me thought the MH player lost an edge last second and it should have only been two.

I was right near the hit and had a great view of it - this is exactly what I saw and thought. The MH player lost an edge/dipped down/dove down right as Kuqali hit him.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Rick Gotkin's team has been the same for year, just like him. Emotional and playing on the edge and sometimes going over that edge.

And when has a Wilson-coached team ever handled it well when their opponents start getting overly physical?


Powers &8^]

 

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

And when has a Wilson-coached team ever handled it well when their opponents start getting overly physical?


Powers &8^]

Over the years I'd say that Wayne's teams play fairly well discipline. Wayne's teams play an aggressive upbeat style and thus do take aggressive penalties, which I don't mind. Yes they've had a McRenolds or Thompson, but even those guys generally picked their trouble at the right times. I really felt that RIT was uncharacteristically undisciplined Saturday and could tell was letting Mercyhurst get under their skin. Kerins took a bad roughing penalty (was deserved) 37 seconds after RIT cut the Mercyhurst lead to one. Just can't be doing that in the playoffs.

I honestly thought Durfee & Sweeney let a lot go Saturday. Scary to say but may have been one of Durfee's better games. If their discipline in the quarters is the same as it was this past weekend then I wouldn't expect to see RIT at Blue Cross...

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

It's not all doom and gloom. Mercyhurst is a team we have dominated in recent history prior to this weekend. On Friday we ended up playing almost the whole game without Chase and later without 2 other D men. We were sloppy and undisciplined and gave them a 5 minute PP, 5 on 3 PPs, and lots of normal PPs. Despite all that we still only lost by a single goal.

Saturday we were again without Chase and again played poorly and still kept it close for most of the game.

So at our worst Mercyhurst really only barely beat us - with an extra two weeks of practice for the recovering Short and a hopefully rested and refocused team I definitely can see us taking care of business in Erie.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Over the years I'd say that Wayne's teams play fairly well discipline.

Yes, absolutely -- UNTIL the other team starts getting chippy, especially if penalties don't get called.


Powers &8^]

 

[jflory81]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Saw the replays, finally. I'm ok with the Norrish call. He launched himself forward much more than I remembered. At point of impact his body is tilted a good 30 degrees from vertical, tips of the skates barely on the ice. I think there's an argument to be made that you could apply 45.2 as the contact does appear to originate from the chest, but I'm ok with the call in full speed. Interestingly I was wrong about the officials switching ends - it was Foote who made this call from behind.

The Perron-Fontaine extra minor was even wimpier than it looked live, and the initial hook was non-existent. Unbelievable to end up down 5 on 3 on that sequence of events.

I'm not going to raise too big a stink about Kuqali's major; I don't think it was anything malicious and 5 was probably harsh (and I think Atlantic Hockey not suspending him shows they generally shared that view), but he wasn't quite even with the MH player and the extra little nudge forward rather than to the side was definitely a factor in how hard he hit the boards. The unsportsmanlike conduct call continues to be a piece of **** ref entering his ego into an emotional game.

 

[StimulisRK]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

The unsportsmanlike conduct call continues to be a piece of **** ref entering his ego into an emotional game.

(Donald Jablonski)

 

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Yes, absolutely -- UNTIL the other team starts getting chippy, especially if penalties don't get called.


Powers &8^]

Yes that suck and yes it's something the league should address. However it's not much you can control, especially during the game. So you need to pick you spots wisely to server justice and not hurt your team...

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Yes that suck and yes it's something the league should address. However it's not much you can control, especially during the game. So you need to pick you spots wisely to server justice and not hurt your team...

Well yeah, that was my whole point.


Powers &8^]

 

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Well yeah, that was my whole point.


Powers &8^]

You don't happen to be related to Steve Schultz do you....

 

[blazer777]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

bumping this to get the packers off the front page

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Saw Short on campus yesterday evening, he's was in a boot but was walking normally. I suspect the boot is just to promote further healing or strengthening rather than an indication that he is nursing a new and worse injury. I suspect it's similar for Rotolo, more precautionary than anything.

 

[StimulisRK]

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Re: >>>>>>>>> RIT Tigers 2015-16 Regular season thread. On the prowl again

Saw Short on campus yesterday evening, he's was in a boot but was walking normally. I suspect the boot is just to promote further healing or strengthening rather than an indication that he is nursing a new and worse injury. I suspect it's similar for Rotolo, more precautionary than anything.

That's what I figured with Rotolo too. He had a boot on at Friday's game, but was standing the entire game. I was right near him, he did not sit once. I've had ankle injuries and the last thing I'd do is stand right next to perfectly good seats for 2 hours if it was bad.