>> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Doesn't Uconn have to rent ice time Off Campus? Or am i imagining?

UConn has its own on-campus arena, the Frietas Ice Forum, which is a pretty nice facility.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

While I think that INCH's rankings are skeptical to say the least, it doesn't make their complaint about pairwise less valid. PairWise is a not a good way to compare teams. KRACH is a much better comparison system.

PairWise is not designed to rate teams but to rank them in terms of NCAA playoff criteria. It's basically useless until the end of the season. If it were up to me, we wouldn't publish it until Feb. 1. However, because a distant competitor to USCHO likes to publish it early, we publish it from the beginning of the season so that other publications will link to ours.

Like any other computer ranking system, KRACH is arbitrary in that it decides certain criteria matter and others don't. If you used KRACH or PWR in your bracket, you'd get BC as the winner but have a lot of picks wrong. I had the final four correct, BC winning and only three games wrong based on things that computers can't measure: who's injured, who has momentum, who is looking for revenge, how two teams matchup, etc. No computer ranking does that.

So while INCH's ranking is subjective, I'll take their educated opinion (or the polls) over a computer ranking any day.

 

[RITProf]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

KRACH would be ideal if it had complete data. I.e., every team playing every other team an equal amount of times on neutral ice (or at least balanced home and away). Then it would give a very nice summary of the relative performance of the teams (in the past) and the predicted performance if all the variables that Ed mentioned were kept equal.

As much as I technically like KRACH, I'm not a fan for hockey because there is just not enough data and I'm coming to believe that the PWR is a better summary of a team's performance in the preceding season.

In reality, it's not that important (I know, many disagree), because the top few and the conference champions are in the tourney with almost any metric. The cutoff point on at large bids is pretty much in the noise anyway (flip a coin). The current procedures just make it an open process.

 

[komey1]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

I hear you Ed and pretty much agree. This may be from the time in D-III I just worry there is part of thinking out there who looks at Scholarships like some used to look frown on the idea of going D-I. Echo that Scholarships are not the whole picture, but I think they are a big tool. I just don't want to see this program handicapped in any way, Players and Coaches work to hard...



That is what I was talking about being a possible mistake, It just seems to me that all eggs where put in the ECAC basket... We will never know, but would have have liked them to at least have the conversation...

My guess and what I would like to see is that RIT has all their ducks in a row and ready for a move to a stronger conference should that opportunity present itself. I don't want to see a rushed move because RIT had one really good year and got to the Frozen Four.

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

A guess - AIC spends less on coaching and recruiting.

but they have no real income, and equipping a full team for a season is really expensive..

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

INCH is always complaining about the PairWise and other more objective measures, so they have a habit of being more "creative" in their rankings, which are done by 2-3 people as opposed to 50 in the poll and the tons of data that make up the pairwise. The PWR has Air Force at 22 and RIT tied for 30th, which I think is a more accurate estimate.

On the other hand, it matters whether we're talking about the whole season or just recent performance. PWR takes into account RIT's slow start (and, ok, weak finish) while the INCH Power Rankings might give more weight to recent performance in the stretch run and/or playoffs.


Powers &8^]

 

[MattS]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

PairWise is not designed to rate teams but to rank them in terms of NCAA playoff criteria. It's basically useless until the end of the season.

I fully understand what PairWise does. Just because it mimics the NCAA playoff criteria doesn't mean that fans don't use it as a ranking system. I contend it is useless all of the time just like the playoff criteria is flawed. Since it is based upon RPI, which we all should know if very flawed, I contend that PairWise is more flawed.

KRACH would be ideal if it had complete data. I.e., every team playing every other team an equal amount of times on neutral ice (or at least balanced home and away). Then it would give a very nice summary of the relative performance of the teams (in the past) and the predicted performance if all the variables that Ed mentioned were kept equal.

As much as I technically like KRACH, I'm not a fan for hockey because there is just not enough data and I'm coming to believe that the PWR is a better summary of a team's performance in the preceding season.

I agree with you on the limited number of games that hockey plays makes any computer ranking (rating) system will be flawed. I will disagree with you on PWR being better than KRACH. A simple "eye" test of the final ratings leads me to believe that KRACH is better to go along with the statistical analysis.

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

I fully understand what PairWise does. Just because it mimics the NCAA playoff criteria doesn't mean that fans don't use it as a ranking system. I contend it is useless all of the time just like the playoff criteria is flawed. Since it is based upon RPI, which we all should know if very flawed, I contend that PairWise is more flawed.

The playoff criteria probably are flawed, but they are what they NCAA uses and everybody knows those are the rules. The PairWise, however, does what it is supposed to do flawlessly, which is to "mimic" (and perhaps we should say duplicate) the playoff calculation. That fans use it wrong or other websites use it wrong does not make it flawed; it makes the fans/websites flawed.

 

[dpm105]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

but they have no real income, and equipping a full team for a season is really expensive..

Obviously they DO have income.....

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Obviously they DO have income.....

The hockey program doesn't, obviously the school does. There is no way that program is operating in the black. Not unless someone is providing all of that equipment for free.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

I don't want to see a rushed move because RIT had one really good year and got to the Frozen Four.

True.
Plus, most recent on-ice performance is of little value when applying / being accepted into a higher level of play when compared to the overall institutional support in terms of the financial commitments and facilities necessary to be competitive at whatever higher level it is. Examples: UConn's potential move from AHA mediocrity (at best) to Hockey East and Quinnipiac's move from D-III obscurity (ECAC NorthEast, IIRC) to D-I.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

The hockey program doesn't, obviously the school does. There is no way that program is operating in the black. Not unless someone is providing all of that equipment for free.

Or unless they're charging $1000 per ticket per game

 

[Big Goon]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Hey RIT fans, there will be a party for the woman's hockey team to celebrate the D-III championship and the move to D-I on Friday April 20th from 2:00 to 4:00 in the Fireside lounge.

 

[Bing]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Dear Easter Bunny: I know you're technically "off duty" now, but please let Chris Tanev score a goal in the playoffs before the 'Nucks get eliminated by the Kings.

Thanks!

 

[RITProf]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Dear Easter Bunny: I know you're technically "off duty" now, but please let Chris Tanev score a goal in the playoffs before the 'Nucks get eliminated by the Kings.

Thanks!

Or should we just ask for the Canucks to score another goal before they get eliminated!!

 

[Bing]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Or should we just ask for the Canucks to score another goal before they get eliminated!!

Good point. I think that Tanev should unleash all that pent up aggression and fight someone, maybe that'll shift the momentum. No one would expect it! Although, he'd probably get creamed.

 

[cplinford]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Tanev is what 165 soaking wet? I don't like his chances in an NHL fight...The Canucks are just not the same offensively without both Sedins apparently. Ironically, before the play offs started everyone was picking the Canucks and Penguins as two of the favorites to make a run to the finals, oops. I have no idea whats wrong with Pittsburgh but Vancouver can take some solace in they aren't them...

 

[MattS]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Tanev is what 165 soaking wet? I don't like his chances in an NHL fight...The Canucks are just not the same offensively without both Sedins apparently. Ironically, before the play offs started everyone was picking the Canucks and Penguins as two of the favorites to make a run to the finals, oops. I have no idea whats wrong with Pittsburgh but Vancouver can take some solace in they aren't them...

'Nucks list him at 185 so I think you're estimate of 165 is spot on. Weight listing are always humorous. They only people he beats in a fight are Cindy and then the Twins on his own team!

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

The Canucks are just not the same offensively without both Sedins apparently.

That and they're playing against a goalie who has flown under the radar (in LA, not surprisingly) and become one of the best goaltenders out there. Quick is playing extremely well. In what I've seen of the Van-LA series so far (usually only about a period or two), The Canucks' offense is doing what it needs to do, just not getting it done against Quick. He's really on his game right now, which doesn't bode well for Tanev to get another shot at the SC finals.
In a "before they were famous" moment... Some of us got to see Jonathan Quick backstopping UMass back in 2007 when the BCA hosted the NCAA Regionals. He got them past Clarkson, but lost to Maine.
But speaking of Tanev... In the periods I've seen of the Canucks this week, I must say I have a much harder time identifying Tanev out there than last year. By that I mean that he looks much more like he belongs there and is in no way out of his element. He did a fine job last season, but it was mostly sitting back and just playing a "no mistake" solid game. It was easy to spot him as he rarely handled the puck for very long. This year, he appears (IMHO with a limited sampling) to really fit in with the team very well. He and Ballard make quite a pair. With all the improvement he's made since arriving at RIT, It'll be really exciting to see how good he can get. If only he played for an Eastern Conference team so we could see him on TV a little more.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

That and they're playing against a goalie who has flown under the radar (in LA, not surprisingly) and become one of the best goaltenders out there.

It's odd to read that a guy who was the third-string Olympian for the U.S. two years ago has flown under the radar. =)


Powers &8^]