>> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

[StimulisRK]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

RIT is too busy building more buildings in attempt to make itself big. Much bigger than it needs to be. Trying way to hard.

Tuition = RIDICULOUS.

Not really actually. There's been alot of problems this year not having enough rooms for classes.

And tuition isn't ridiculous -it's not the lowest, but it's definitely not the highest.

 

[redhotzep96]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Not really actually. There's been alot of problems this year not having enough rooms for classes.

Too many students.

 

[RITProf]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Too many students.

I agree ... we should have a bout 4K fewer students and charge about $12K more in tuition. Unfortunately reality wouldn't bear that.

You're asking for fewer students and lower tuition. To do that, we'd be a sad place without all the facilities and services that have been put in place since about 1995. Is that really what you want? (e.g. we wouldn't be pondering this on the D1 discussion board!)

 

[redhotzep96]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

I agree ... we should have a bout 4K fewer students and charge about $12K more in tuition. Unfortunately reality wouldn't bear that.

You're asking for fewer students and lower tuition. To do that, we'd be a sad place without all the facilities and services that have been put in place since about 1995. Is that really what you want? (e.g. we wouldn't be pondering this on the D1 discussion board!)

I apologize for this topic being brought up. Sorry!

 

[komey1]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

I'm sorry but I don't like being one of (now) 11 teams that can make a playoff run from our conference. RIT would grow faster in a more competitive league. I'd rather suffer through a few **** seasons and work our way up to becoming competitive on the national level (similar to Union) than waiting around all season and hoping someone else knocks out Air Force in the playoffs... since we haven't done a good job of it (we've never scored on them in the playoffs, right?).

It would take a considerable amount of time to get to where Union is. I would say close to 10 years at least. Qpac moved into ECAC when RIT went to the AHA and they haven't really done much in that conference. I don't think they've ever been to the ECAC Frozen Four. So take that into account. Do I think RIT could do it - yes. But it could happen.

 

[redhotzep96]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

It would take a considerable amount of time to get to where Union is. I would say close to 10 years at least. Qpac moved into ECAC when RIT went to the AHA and they haven't really done much in that conference. I don't think they've ever been to the ECAC Frozen Four. So take that into account. Do I think RIT could do it - yes. But it could happen.

We keep discussing about how long it will take to actually get to an impressive level in another conference, but the longer we wait to GET INTO another conference the longer it'll be until we get to that point...

 

[burgie12]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

It would take a considerable amount of time to get to where Union is. I would say close to 10 years at least. Qpac moved into ECAC when RIT went to the AHA and they haven't really done much in that conference. I don't think they've ever been to the ECAC Frozen Four. So take that into account. Do I think RIT could do it - yes. But it could happen.

Quinnipiac made the Championship game in 2007 and have won at least one playoff series every year since they have been admitted (they are the only team that can make that claim).

All-time ECAC Tournament Results

 

[MattS]

It would take a considerable amount of time to get to where Union is. I would say close to 10 years at least. Qpac moved into ECAC when RIT went to the AHA and they haven't really done much in that conference. I don't think they've ever been to the ECAC Frozen Four. So take that into account. Do I think RIT could do it - yes. But it could happen.

RIT hockey >>>> Qpac hockey

To even equate RIT hockey any where near Qpac is underestimating RIT. RIT has a greater tradition, history, and commitment that would allow them to achieve success at a much quicker rate than Qpac or even Union for that matter.

 

[RITProf]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

RIT hockey >>>> Qpac hockey

To even equate RIT hockey any where near Qpac is underestimating RIT. RIT has a greater tradition, history, and commitment that would allow them to achieve success at a much quicker rate than Qpac or even Union for that matter.

Agreed. Also if you read any of the history of Union that has been posted these last two weeks you'd see that they have only been truly committed to competing at the D1 level for a few years. They spent a lot of their history in the last 20 years "not really trying" ... and I think the Union fans would agree with that summary. RIT is very committed to succeed and I am sure would up the ante as needed if a conference change were made.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Wait, what happened to "we need to have scholarships to truly be competitive"?


Powers &8^]

 

[RITProf]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Wait, what happened to "we need to have scholarships to truly be competitive"?

Was that to me???

We don't need scholarships, just like Union doesn't. But there are lots of other things to spend money on that help a lot (facilities, staff, recruiting, PR, etc.) and that's what Union has only begun to do more recently.

Anyway, maybe you weren't addressing that to me since I've never said "we need to have scholarships to truly be competitive".

 

[MattS]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Wait, what happened to "we need to have scholarships to truly be competitive"?


Powers &8^]

If it was directed at me.... Then there is a difference between having success in a league were a majority of the colleges do not offer scholarships and being competitive for a NCAA title.

 

[RIT Winters]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Was that to me???

We don't need scholarships, just like Union doesn't. But there are lots of other things to spend money on that help a lot (facilities, staff, recruiting, PR, etc.) and that's what Union has only begun to do more recently.

Anyway, maybe you weren't addressing that to me since I've never said "we need to have scholarships to truly be competitive".

I think RIT is heading in this direction. A $30 million facility in the works, we've got a great coaching staff, and we've seen that our recruiting has improved with strong players, including an incoming player whose already been drafted. PR is good too, with the Power Play campaign, we televise all our games in HD and they are seen as far away as Binghamton, and we get a fair amount of press coverage around town. Obviously, going to the Frozen Four was invaluable for our PR and probably recruiting.

If it was directed at me.... Then there is a difference between having success in a league were a majority of the colleges do not offer scholarships and being competitive for a NCAA title.

Perhaps. But we went to the Frozen Four a couple years ago and lost to a Wisconsin team that we played hard and close in 2 games this year. Union went to the Frozen Four this year and lost 3-1 to a team that we shut out 3-0 this year. Speaking of Ferris state, they made it all the way to the finals and we beat them. And it wasn't even close!

Obviously, scholarships help. There is no doubt that if you can essentially pay your players, you will get the absolute best players. Any school that gives scholarships will succeed over a school that doesn't if all other factors were totally equal. Obviously, as with Union, that is not always the case.

 

[MattS]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Perhaps. But we went to the Frozen Four a couple years ago and lost to a Wisconsin team that we played hard and close in 2 games this year. Union went to the Frozen Four this year and lost 3-1 to a team that we shut out 3-0 this year. Speaking of Ferris state, they made it all the way to the finals and we beat them. And it wasn't even close!

Obviously, scholarships help. There is no doubt that if you can essentially pay your players, you will get the absolute best players. Any school that gives scholarships will succeed over a school that doesn't if all other factors were totally equal. Obviously, as with Union, that is not always the case.

For me there is a difference between being "successful" and competing for championships. Successful as it currently stands for RIT is winning being a top 3 team in the AHA, winning some good quality OOC games, and going to the NCAA's frequently. Also growing and improving as a program. All which are more or less happening at RIT right now.


However, until this changes (or at least trends upward) I will stand by that scholarships are a must to be truly competitive for a NCAA championship:

Last non-scholarship team to win a championship: Harvard (sucks) in 1989
# of non-scholarship teams in the FF in the past 20 years: 3 (Union 2012, RIT 2010, & Cornell 2003)

 

[LtPowers]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

If it was directed at me.... Then there is a difference between having success in a league were a majority of the colleges do not offer scholarships and being competitive for a NCAA title.

It wasn't directed at anyone in particular, though your statement probably summarizes the view I was confused about. And I'm still a bit confused. Are you saying that we'd be more successful in the ECAC than in Atlantic Hockey because fewer ECAC teams offer scholarships?


Powers &8^]

 

[Tom Naeger]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

RIT is not without a chair - they HAVE a confernece. It's also one that they will be major players in for the forseeable future with opportunities to make the NCAAs. That is not a bad thing.

Komey, come on you know what I am saying. Yes RIT has a conference, but there was a chance to upgrade the conference they compete in and its starting to appear that we are going to miss out on this chance. Overall I like the administration of those really responsible for running this program. Especially outside of the coaching staff, the administration has come a long way since the days I was a student at RIT. I am not going to lie, many of us “season vets” have had to bite or tongue or walk away and roll our eyes when talking with certain administrators. It been such a great change I made a big point to thank people like Greg Moss this year when I was talking about how much we miss him.

So my respect for these people is great, however I do believe that like me they are not perfect and are open to fair scrutiny. And in this case I think there appear to be some missed opportunities here. RIT seemed like it was booming when I was a student between 98 and 2003. Already was it very impressive when I was there but become even more impressive and certainly makes me proud to be alumni. There is absolutely no reason in my mind that RIT could not make a wonderful D-I institution and would be a great thing for the greater Rochester area.

When you break down the debate, I see two arguments. I think the argument for scholarships and moving to a better league is self-explanatory. The other arguments seems to be, it will take longer and be more difficult to make the NCAA. I am sorry but the ladder argument sounds too much like the concerns Remy went overboard is pronouncing when RIT announced going D-I. If you confine yourself to that it be too tough or take too long to compete in an ECAC or whatever I really think your missing Coach Wilson comment one moving to D-I not to just play teams like Michigan, but to beat teams like Michigan.

I absolutely do not question the commitment of RIT to build a great program. I am a little less certain about the understanding on what it will take to get to where we all want to go. Especially when I just am not sold yet on the majority of the AHA being serious about building strong hockey programs in this league. I give Bob credit for what he has to work with, but if other schools do not get serious the AHA is always going to be known as a league you need to respect, but come tourney time if you play your game you will win 9 out of 10 times…

 

[Ed Trefzger]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

I absolutely do not question the commitment of RIT to build a great program. I am a little less certain about the understanding on what it will take to get to where we all want to go. Especially when I just am not sold yet on the majority of the AHA being serious about building strong hockey programs in this league. I give Bob credit for what he has to work with, but if other schools do not get serious the AHA is always going to be known as a league you need to respect, but come tourney time if you play your game you will win 9 out of 10 times…

As my colleague at USCHO.com, Jim Connelly, often points out to me, the MAAC (predecessor to AHA) was formed as a cost-containment league and in part for D-II schools that had nowhere to go when D-II folded at the NCAA championship level. Since then, the caliber of teams and seriousness of their approach has improved, but now there's a battle between those that want to contain costs and those that want to be more competitive. Interesting to note, though, that teams interested in containing costs nevertheless flew to Pittsburgh from New England to play Robert Morris this past season.

I can assure you that everyone at RIT involved with the program knows what it takes to get to the next level. Scholarships are part, but nowhere near the whole picture. The league office also knows what's needed, but they are restricted to what the athletic directors of the 12 schools will approve.

Things also are not done yet in the league realignment picture. From talking to people in the know in Tampa, there are at least four non-Big 10 schools looking at hockey. And of course Alabama-Huntsville still needs a home.

This was the first Frozen for Ferris. They've had scholarships all along. For other than the very few top-notch teams, getting to the Frozen Four is an infrequent event.

 

[mar7967]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

As my colleague at USCHO.com, Jim Connelly, often points out to me, the MAAC (predecessor to AHA) was formed as a cost-containment league and in part for D-II schools that had nowhere to go when D-II folded at the NCAA championship level. Since then, the caliber of teams and seriousness of their approach has improved, but now there's a battle between those that want to contain costs and those that want to be more competitive. Interesting to note, though, that teams interested in containing costs nevertheless flew to Pittsburgh from New England to play Robert Morris this past season.

At work today, I was listening to the replays of USCHO live from this past weekend, and I heard this mentioned...If they flew to RMU, did they also fly to Mercyhurst? Isn't that even further away?

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

And in this case I think there appear to be some missed opportunities here.

I don't know that there were any opportunities for RIT to miss. A whole lot of changes took place in the D-I hockey landscape last off-season, but no actual changes directly involved RIT at all. There were multiple potential and rumored changes that could have prestented opportunities to RIT, but none of those have materialized to this point and appear less and less likely to as time goes on. I think any opportunities they had were in theory only. Unfortunately none of them were realized. So yes, for those who want the program to join a better conference and potentially offer scholarships, things don't look good. But I don't believe any of that can be blamed on the folks that work for the RIT athletic department.
As far as the transition to D-I for all athletics the way you say you'd like to see, it would be interesting, but the process they've put in place for schools to move up is lengthy, expensive, and onerous. If I understood correctly, it will take 10 years before they can be eligible for anything of meaning (except for the hockey teams, of course). It would be big for the hockey teams, but the rest of the sports will be in limbo for a long, long time.

 

[TigerFan86-87]

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

Re: >> RIT Tigers 2011-12 Part II: Making Some Noise at the House that Roars <<

...that teams interested in containing costs nevertheless flew to Pittsburgh from New England to play Robert Morris this past season.

That doesn't surprise me. So many New Englanders think that anything west of Albany is "Way out there in the middle of nowhere". They probably didn't even think they could entertain the possibility of driving "All the way" to Eastern Pennsylvania.