Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Ah, I see now. The odd little myopic anti-Canadian xenophobic Minnesota attitude. Its not about how Americans run their kids hockey programs, its always been about how MINNESOTANS run their kids hockey programs. In Michigan, the Canadian system is fully adopted and integrated. Kids grow up playing club level hockey, not municipal youth hockey. In Michigan, kids are working towards playing junior hockey, and usually the top end talent will avoid Michigan's high school hockey. There is no animosity towards Canada in Michigan hockey, it has always been a friendly working relationship. The worry about "foreign players" in college hockey has almost exclusively come from Minnesota. There are no discussions in the media in Detroit, or Ann Arbor, or East Lansing, or Sault Ste. Marie, about "importing foreign players to play college hockey in our American tax-payer supported schools." That is a uniquely Minnesotan boogy man. Mr. Marriucci went after the CHL many years ago in a bid to protect -- not American players -- but Minnesota players, and specifically the Minnesota High School Hockey system. The NCAA swallowed that inane line about protecting "American" hockey. So now hockey players are held to a different standard than tennis and golf players at the NCAA level.

In Michigan, the CHL -- via the OHL -- is well known and respected in the region. Saginaw and Plymouth are two OHL teams inside the Michigan boarders. And Michigan also has Sarnia and the Soo Greyhounds right on the boarder. When I was growing up, I got to watch a few young kids named Wayne Gertzky and then Ron Francis, play for the Greyhounds. A few years later Joe Thornton learned his trade in Sault Ste. Marie. But the Soo also got to watch Jim Dowd and Doug Weight at LSSU. I remember going over the river with some friends to see a skinny young Chris Pronger come into town for his only visit with Peterborough. I've seen both sides of the Soo celebrate winning NCAA titles and Memorial Cups. In Michigan, the CHL is known and respected every much as the NCAA, and the little temper-stamping-feet of some NCAA people seems silly and confusing.

The OHL attracts top end talent. The NCAA attracts top end talent. Neither organization is going to attract ALL of the top end talent. So what is this all about? Amatuer status? (As noted, being lectured on Amatuer status issues from the NCAA is a little hard to swallow).

Or is this antiquated division a left over from an era when native Minnesotans felt their decades-long grip on college hockey slipping? When those 21-year old Canadians from Michigan Tech would come down from the UP under Big John McInnis? And then, horror of horrors, Big Bad Gino Gasperini brought in his Canadian circus down from North Dakota. And they caused much pain and anguish in Minnesota. Isn't that what this is really about? The only people who seem to have had any stake in keeping the CHL players out of the NCAA are Minnesotans. And thankfully, this absurd ban won't last forever, and it won't last much longer.

Nice rant. So let me get this straight, if your state's youth model isn't setup based on the AAA system, you're anti-Canadian? Arguably the stupidest thing I have EVER read. I guess guys like Herb Brooks were just oozing with hatred for Canada when he called Minnesota "Southern Manitoba", ha?

Truth is, we are proud of our community based model, and we are proud of our hockey heritage. That doesn't mean we have any anomisity towards Canada or the CHL. Just because we aren't bending over backwards on this forum to declare the CHL the end-all for player development, doesn't mean that we don't appreciate it.

Sounds like you have a little animosity towards Minnesota. Could it be that, despite having half the population of Michigan, we still have more registered hockey players? Or could it be that the US has never won a Gold without at least half it's roster being from Minnesota? Both facts that didn't need to be brought up, but you seem to want to talk MN vs MI.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Well put Lakerblue. I agree there are some very vocal posters over the years on this board that are conflating Minnesota concerns (bigotry?) about non-high schoolers in general and Canadians in particular as some sort of ruin to NCAA hockey. There is Minnesota hockey player development, the rest-of-US player development and Canadian player development models, with the rest-of-US and Canadian models being very similar. So why has debate on this topic always seemed to be hijacked by supporters of the Minnesota high-school model? It works for them. Great. Others use a different model. Doesn't make the Minnesota model, the minority choice, the optimum choice. Also doesn't the more popular choice, club hockey, evil or Un-American.

I have read this entire thread and I haven't seen ONE post that claims Minnesota's community-based model for youth hockey is better than any other, or that anyone who supports players going to the CHL are "evil" or "Un-American". On the contrary, all I have read is a lot of bashing of the USHL and the NCAA as being inferior to the CHL.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Oh, and I love the name dropping LakerBlue. We had Sidney Crosby playing in Minnesota at Shattuck for a while. Does that make us as cool as you guys, or any less anti-Canadian?

 

[Happy]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Ah, I see now. The odd little myopic anti-Canadian xenophobic Minnesota attitude. Its not about how Americans run their kids hockey programs, its always been about how MINNESOTANS run their kids hockey programs. In Michigan, the Canadian system is fully adopted and integrated. Kids grow up playing club level hockey, not municipal youth hockey. In Michigan, kids are working towards playing junior hockey, and usually the top end talent will avoid Michigan's high school hockey. There is no animosity towards Canada in Michigan hockey, it has always been a friendly working relationship. The worry about "foreign players" in college hockey has almost exclusively come from Minnesota. There are no discussions in the media in Detroit, or Ann Arbor, or East Lansing, or Sault Ste. Marie, about "importing foreign players to play college hockey in our American tax-payer supported schools." That is a uniquely Minnesotan boogy man. Mr. Marriucci went after the CHL many years ago in a bid to protect -- not American players -- but Minnesota players, and specifically the Minnesota High School Hockey system. The NCAA swallowed that inane line about protecting "American" hockey. So now hockey players are held to a different standard than tennis and golf players at the NCAA level.

In Michigan, the CHL -- via the OHL -- is well known and respected in the region. Saginaw and Plymouth are two OHL teams inside the Michigan boarders. And Michigan also has Sarnia and the Soo Greyhounds right on the boarder. When I was growing up, I got to watch a few young kids named Wayne Gertzky and then Ron Francis, play for the Greyhounds. A few years later Joe Thornton learned his trade in Sault Ste. Marie. But the Soo also got to watch Jim Dowd and Doug Weight at LSSU. I remember going over the river with some friends to see a skinny young Chris Pronger come into town for his only visit with Peterborough. I've seen both sides of the Soo celebrate winning NCAA titles and Memorial Cups. In Michigan, the CHL is known and respected every much as the NCAA, and the little temper-stamping-feet of some NCAA people seems silly and confusing.

The OHL attracts top end talent. The NCAA attracts top end talent. Neither organization is going to attract ALL of the top end talent. So what is this all about? Amatuer status? (As noted, being lectured on Amatuer status issues from the NCAA is a little hard to swallow).

Or is this antiquated division a left over from an era when native Minnesotans felt their decades-long grip on college hockey slipping? When those 21-year old Canadians from Michigan Tech would come down from the UP under Big John McInnis? And then, horror of horrors, Big Bad Gino Gasperini brought in his Canadian circus down from North Dakota. And they caused much pain and anguish in Minnesota. Isn't that what this is really about? The only people who seem to have had any stake in keeping the CHL players out of the NCAA are Minnesotans. And thankfully, this absurd ban won't last forever, and it won't last much longer.

When I was in tenth grade, my teacher had a son. He played hockey, he always stayed local, and he went on to be the best player on my old high school team, which won the Minnesota State High School Championship. Since Minnesota likes local kids, he got to play for Minnesota, and he went on to score a Goal in the NCAA Championship game, which he won. I don't really see having anywhere near that kind of local pride when your players are total strangers to the fans.
Like I said, just go ahead, and cheer for the best MJ team each year, that way you can brag about what great pros they will be in the NHL. It 's not like they know who you are, or will come back to visit, or move back to raise their kids.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

I have read this entire thread and I haven't seen ONE post that claims Minnesota's community-based model for youth hockey is better than any other, or that anyone who supports players going to the CHL are "evil" or "Un-American". On the contrary, all I have read is a lot of bashing of the USHL and the NCAA as being inferior to the CHL.

Well that's because I didn't say that. I typed " ... very vocal posters over the years on this board ..."

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Well that's because I didn't say that. I typed " ... very vocal posters over the years on this board ..."

Thanks for the clarification. My bad, I misread your post. In this instance, you're wrong though. This thread HAD nothing to do with Minnesota Hockey until LakerBlue brought it up, and everything to do with the fact that some people can't come to terms with the fact that NCAA hockey is now developing players every bit as well as the CHL.

 

[AVFC]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Thanks for the clarification. My bad, I misread your post. In this instance, you're wrong though. This thread HAD nothing to do with Minnesota Hockey until LakerBlue brought it up, and everything to do with the fact that some people can't come to terms with the fact that NCAA hockey is now developing players every bit as well as the CHL.

Actually, it had nothing to do with MN until your fellow MN supporter brought up the idea of 21-year-old Canadians with no major junior eligibility, taking roster spots from 18-year-old Americans. Allowing CHL players to play NCAA hockey will in no way hurt MN high school hockey. It is just such a strong institution and a major part of MN sporting life. Has the growth of the USHL hurt MNHSH? Why would the CHL be any different?

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Actually, it had nothing to do with MN until your fellow MN supporter brought up the idea of 21-year-old Canadians with no major junior eligibility, taking roster spots from 18-year-old Americans. Allowing CHL players to play NCAA hockey will in no way hurt MN high school hockey. It is just such a strong institution and a major part of MN sporting life. Has the growth of the USHL hurt MNHSH? Why would the CHL be any different?

Understood, but it had nothing to do with Minnesota's community-based youth hockey model vs the club teams that are more prevalent in other parts of the country. This was actually a good discussion until it quickly took a turn to bashing Minnesotans for their apparent arrogance. As much as people like to complain that we're "hockey snobs", there are equally as many people on this forum who are quick to try and make us apologize for having pride in our hockey heritage.

As for your point, I don't see any difference between letting USHL players and CHL players play NCAA hockey. That was never my point, and I agree with you that it will have little, if any, effect on Minnesota high school hockey. My only contention was with the people who try and contend that the CHL is a better development route than NCAA hockey.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Well there are opinions, and then there are facts. I prefer facts. We do NOT have nice tidy stats from the NHL showing the breakdown of percentage of players who came from CHL, NCAA and Europe. That's too bad, because it would end some of the educated guesses stated as facts in this thread.

Over lunch I decided to look at a representative sample of the NHL: the two team rosters, the dressed players, for Game 7 of the 2011 Stanley Cup. Not the scratches. The players important enough (albeit healthy) to play in Game 7.

Boston, the champions, had 15 players from the CHL, 2 from the NCAA and 5 from Europe (2 of whom, Chara and Kreji, played in CHL) dressed for Game 7.
Vancouver had 9 from the CHL, 9 from the NCAA and 6 from Europe. There is some double counting. Oreskovich played both NCAA & CHL. Europeans Hansen and Edler each played one year in the CHL. Kesler and Tanev were one-and-done's in the NCAA.

So what does this only tell us? If you only look at Boston, the NCAA doesn't come close to the CHL for NHL development. If you only look at Vancouver, it looks about the same for NCAA vs. CHL. Combine the two rosters and the CHL is 24-11 over the NCAA.

I'm a fan of the NCAA and want to see it prosper. But I think it is a bit of a reach yet to state "the fact that NCAA hockey is now developing players every bit as well as the CHL."

I would love to see someone crunch the breakdown for all of the NHL teams. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of time on my hands.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Twist a pig's ear, and it will squeal.

Xenophobia and self-defensiveness will tend to cloud reading comprehension. You will see what you want. Marching off to war for an overreaction based on clouded judgement is a questionable crusade, at best.

The point of the exercise is not whether Minnesota, Michigan, or Canada have better systems. Nobody said anything about which system was better, worse, or otherwise. Not a single word. The question is whether CHL players should be allowed to play NCAA hockey. It is the NCAA with the rules and restrictions. Is it not appropriate to question the basis of those restritctions? And in questioning the basis of the restritctions, is it not fair to look back in history and see the reasoning for those restrictions?

And the history of those restrictions is based in Minnesota. Its not based in Michigan, for instance, because there is no animosity between Michigan hockey and Ontario hockey. As evidence, I only point out the players of note I was able to watch in the OHL while growing up. Exposure to the OHL in Michigan is signifncant, and accordingly there is likely to be little belief in Michigan hockey circles about the alleged inherent evils of the CHL system.

This was all said to show the real culprit of the NCAA vs. CHL nonsense: Minnesota's municipal-based youth hockey system.

And I guess I need to put a fine point on all of this: Why is the rest of the NCAA, and all of the kids lost eligibility, forced to suffer merely to protect Minnesota's bucolic system?

As I read here -- it appears Minnesota's system is perfectly healthy, safe, and produces many fine players. So why the concern over the CHL?

If the Minnesota system is perfectly healthy . . . and the CHL operates under the same rules as the USHL . . . and golf and tennis NCAA players are allowed to compete against professionals -- as long as they are not compensated accordingly . . . then why the restrictions?

If Minnesota doesn't need the help because their system is so amazing and so secure, then this is finally settled: We can drop the absurd rule, which never should have been put in place to begin with (because, as we've learned, Minnesota hockey has always been, and will always be, safe and secure), and CHL palyers should be allowed to join the NCAA ranks with no loss of eligibility.

Glad that is settled.

I appreciate the passionate defense of Minnesota hockey on this posting, because finally we can see the faulty foundation upon which Mr. Marriucci built this arcane and meaningless rule.

Now the entire hockey world can thrive. Players are no longer prisoners to the NCAA's draconian arbitrary dictates. 15 year olds don't have to make major life altering choices. And College Hockey Inc. can stop spending money fighting a meaningless war and instead spend that money promoting the excellent NCAA Hockey product in the United States -- get some TV exposure, some fan exposure. Concentrate its attention where it matters instead of fighting Minnesota's 40-year old dead problem.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Well there are opinions, and then there are facts. I prefer facts. We do NOT have nice tidy stats from the NHL showing the breakdown of percentage of players who came from CHL, NCAA and Europe. That's too bad, because it would end some of the educated guesses stated as facts in this thread.

Over lunch I decided to look at a representative sample of the NHL: the two team rosters, the dressed players, for Game 7 of the 2011 Stanley Cup. Not the scratches. The players important enough (albeit healthy) to play in Game 7.

Boston, the champions, had 15 players from the CHL, 2 from the NCAA and 5 from Europe (2 of whom, Chara and Kreji, played in CHL) dressed for Game 7.
Vancouver had 9 from the CHL, 9 from the CHL and 6 from Europe. There is some double counting. Oreskovich played both NCAA & CHL. Europeans Hansen and Edler each played one year in the CHL. Kesler and Tanev were one-and-done's in the NCAA.

So what does this only tell us? If you only look at Boston, the NCAA doesn't come close to the CHL for NHL development. If you only look at Vancouver, it looks about the same for NCAA vs. CHL. Combine the two rosters and the CHL is 24-11 over the NCAA.

I'm a fan of the NCAA and want to see it prosper. But I think it is a bit of a reach yet to state "the fact that NCAA hockey is now developing players every bit as well as the CHL."

I would love to see someone crunch the breakdown for all of the NHL teams. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of time on my hands.

I too wish I had the numbers, but am going off of what I have read in numerous sources (one of which I posted a link to). If you want to call these sources inaccurate, that is fine, but I have yet to see anything that definatively proves that they are wrong.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Twist a pig's ear, and it will squeal.

Xenophobia and self-defensiveness will tend to cloud reading comprehension. You will see what you want. Marching off to war for an overreaction based on clouded judgement is a questionable crusade, at best.

The point of the exercise is not whether Minnesota, Michigan, or Canada have better systems. Nobody said anything about which system was better, worse, or otherwise. Not a single word. The question is whether CHL players should be allowed to play NCAA hockey. It is the NCAA with the rules and restrictions. Is it not appropriate to question the basis of those restritctions? And in questioning the basis of the restritctions, is it not fair to look back in history and see the reasoning for those restrictions?

And the history of those restrictions is based in Minnesota. Its not based in Michigan, for instance, because there is no animosity between Michigan hockey and Ontario hockey. As evidence, I only point out the players of note I was able to watch in the OHL while growing up. Exposure to the OHL in Michigan is signifncant, and accordingly there is likely to be little belief in Michigan hockey circles about the alleged inherent evils of the CHL system.

This was all said to show the real culprit of the NCAA vs. CHL nonsense: Minnesota's municipal-based youth hockey system.

And I guess I need to put a fine point on all of this: Why is the rest of the NCAA, and all of the kids lost eligibility, forced to suffer merely to protect Minnesota's bucolic system?

As I read here -- it appears Minnesota's system is perfectly healthy, safe, and produces many fine players. So why the concern over the CHL?

If the Minnesota system is perfectly healthy . . . and the CHL operates under the same rules as the USHL . . . and golf and tennis NCAA players are allowed to compete against professionals -- as long as they are not compensated accordingly . . . then why the restrictions?

If Minnesota doesn't need the help because their system is so amazing and so secure, then this is finally settled: We can drop the absurd rule, which never should have been put in place to begin with (because, as we've learned, Minnesota hockey has always been, and will always be, safe and secure), and CHL palyers should be allowed to join the NCAA ranks with no loss of eligibility.

Glad that is settled.

I appreciate the passionate defense of Minnesota hockey on this posting, because finally we can see the faulty foundation upon which Mr. Marriucci built this arcane and meaningless rule.

Now the entire hockey world can thrive. Players are no longer prisoners to the NCAA's draconian arbitrary dictates. 15 year olds don't have to make major life altering choices. And College Hockey Inc. can stop spending money fighting a meaningless war and instead spend that money promoting the excellent NCAA Hockey product in the United States -- get some TV exposure, some fan exposure. Concentrate its attention where it matters instead of fighting Minnesota's 40-year old dead problem.

Yeah, Minnesota Hockey is the puppet master pulling all the strings. Keep ****ing all over the legacy of John Mariucci if it makes you feel better, but the fact remains that you have absolutely no evidence to prove that Minnesota Hockey is the reason that CHL players are still not allowed to play in the NCAA.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Well put Lakerblue. I agree there are some very vocal posters over the years on this board that are conflating Minnesota concerns (bigotry?) about non-high schoolers in general and Canadians in particular as some sort of ruin to NCAA hockey. There is Minnesota hockey player development, the rest-of-US player development and Canadian player development models, with the rest-of-US and Canadian models being very similar. So why has debate on this topic always seemed to be hijacked by supporters of the Minnesota high-school model? It works for them. Great. Others use a different model. Doesn't make the Minnesota model, the minority choice, the optimum choice. Also doesn't make the more popular choice, club hockey, evil or Un-American.

I am not sure you could be more patently false and idiotic...you could probably try but you would fail. (much like this post)

No one has said anything like that here and your use of this topic to go on some myopic rant about Minnesota hockey shows it is YOU that is xenophobic. No one here said ANYTHING like what you were talking about, the only thing was Happy is a Minnesota fan and you are going off like you went to Madison or something because somebody said something at another time that was prideful of Minnesota's system. Keep up the good fight dude

Despite what you seem to think USA Hockey /= Minnesota hockey. Michigan and New England have different systems and guess what, they are aok by pretty much everyone. We may not embrace it here but so what. Prep hockey and midget hockey are good where they are used, HS hockey works here. Get out of the 1970s already.

And I hope the NCAA never allows the MJ players in. The kid knows the choice he is making, deal with it.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

Twist a pig's ear, and it will squeal.

Not only is this a widespread occurrence round these parts, but in some cases it comes laced with vitriol.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

I am not sure you could be more patently false and idiotic...you could probably try but you would fail. (much like this post)

No one has said anything like that here and your use of this topic to go on some myopic rant about Minnesota hockey shows it is YOU that is xenophobic. No one here said ANYTHING like what you were talking about, the only thing was Happy is a Minnesota fan and you are going off like you went to Madison or something because somebody said something at another time that was prideful of Minnesota's system. Keep up the good fight dude

Despite what you seem to think USA Hockey /= Minnesota hockey. Michigan and New England have different systems and guess what, they are aok by pretty much everyone. We may not embrace it here but so what. Prep hockey and midget hockey are good where they are used, HS hockey works here. Get out of the 1970s already.

And I hope the NCAA never allows the MJ players in. The kid knows the choice he is making, deal with it.

I believe that the hope of some of us herein is to, indeed, get out of the 1970's -- and the obviously poor decision by the NCAA to follow its then-Minnesota-dominated hockey leadership in cutting off CHL players from NCAA play. Yes, let us ALL move out of the 1970's and admit that the restriction against CHL players needs to end. It was a silly rule, enacted at a silly time, by people who were not thinking in the best interests of college hockey but, instead, were thinking of their own backyard's interests.

Now that we have seen the illogic of that decision -- as MInnesota, Michigan, and new England are all capable of producing fine hockey players regardless of the system -- let us move away from such arcane foolishness.

Or is it, perhaps, that some people are still just a little-too-closed-minded and, perhaps, that little lingering anti-Canadian, or worse Canadian-ignornace, to end a longstanding practice which has long since lost any value, any purpose, and any validity? Just asking. I mean, I don't think we need any long winded sermons on the value of Minnesota hockey, do we? Can we all agree that Minnesota hockey is fine and dandy? Is Minnesota hockey, and Minnesotans, so threatened and worried for their hockey program's survival that the CHL must be kept out, at bay, for all etnernity? I don't think thats the case, is it? Minnesota hockey isn't hanging by a thread, is it? Then why the over-reaction from so many Minnesotans, both here, and on other threads over the years when the topic of Canadians and Major Juniors arises?

You can't have it both ways, friends. If USA hockey (not just Minnesota hockey) was deeply threatened with total failure because of the CHL system, perhaps there would be a place for a protectionist law to save college hockey. But there isn't any such danger. There is no such threat. And so there should be no such law.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

I believe that the hope of some of us herein is to, indeed, get out of the 1970's -- and the obviously poor decision by the NCAA to follow its then-Minnesota-dominated hockey leadership in cutting off CHL players from NCAA play. Yes, let us ALL move out of the 1970's and admit that the restriction against CHL players needs to end. It was a silly rule, enacted at a silly time, by people who were not thinking in the best interests of college hockey but, instead, were thinking of their own backyard's interests.

Now that we have seen the illogic of that decision -- as MInnesota, Michigan, and new England are all capable of producing fine hockey players regardless of the system -- let us move away from such arcane foolishness.

Or is it, perhaps, that some people are still just a little-too-closed-minded and, perhaps, that little lingering anti-Canadian, or worse Canadian-ignornace, to end a longstanding practice which has long since lost any value, any purpose, and any validity? Just asking. I mean, I don't think we need any long winded sermons on the value of Minnesota hockey, do we? Can we all agree that Minnesota hockey is fine and dandy? Is Minnesota hockey, and Minnesotans, so threatened and worried for their hockey program's survival that the CHL must be kept out, at bay, for all etnernity? I don't think thats the case, is it? Minnesota hockey isn't hanging by a thread, is it? Then why the over-reaction from so many Minnesotans, both here, and on other threads over the years when the topic of Canadians and Major Juniors arises?

You can't have it both ways, friends. If USA hockey (not just Minnesota hockey) was deeply threatened with total failure because of the CHL system, perhaps there would be a place for a protectionist law to save college hockey. But there isn't any such danger. There is no such threat. And so there should be no such law.

You would probably win more people over, and affect any changes you want much sonner, if you stopped pinning the blame on Minnesota Hockey. Regardless of what you would like everyone to believe, not wanting CHL players to play in the NCAA and the health of Minnesota Hockey are not mutually exclusive.

And do you honestly believe, because you're in favor of letting CHL players play in the NCAA, that your viewpoint is shared by everyone in Michigan? My God, for someone who likes to lecture others on holdnig predjudices, you harbor quite a few of your own.

You want change? Dropping the attitude would be a great start.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

I believe that the hope of some of us herein is to, indeed, get out of the 1970's -- and the obviously poor decision by the NCAA to follow its then-Minnesota-dominated hockey leadership in cutting off CHL players from NCAA play. Yes, let us ALL move out of the 1970's and admit that the restriction against CHL players needs to end. It was a silly rule, enacted at a silly time, by people who were not thinking in the best interests of college hockey but, instead, were thinking of their own backyard's interests.

Now that we have seen the illogic of that decision -- as MInnesota, Michigan, and new England are all capable of producing fine hockey players regardless of the system -- let us move away from such arcane foolishness.

Or is it, perhaps, that some people are still just a little-too-closed-minded and, perhaps, that little lingering anti-Canadian, or worse Canadian-ignornace, to end a longstanding practice which has long since lost any value, any purpose, and any validity? Just asking. I mean, I don't think we need any long winded sermons on the value of Minnesota hockey, do we? Can we all agree that Minnesota hockey is fine and dandy? Is Minnesota hockey, and Minnesotans, so threatened and worried for their hockey program's survival that the CHL must be kept out, at bay, for all etnernity? I don't think thats the case, is it? Minnesota hockey isn't hanging by a thread, is it? Then why the over-reaction from so many Minnesotans, both here, and on other threads over the years when the topic of Canadians and Major Juniors arises?

You can't have it both ways, friends. If USA hockey (not just Minnesota hockey) was deeply threatened with total failure because of the CHL system, perhaps there would be a place for a protectionist law to save college hockey. But there isn't any such danger. There is no such threat. And so there should be no such law.

And for the record, no, we don't need any "long-winded sermons" on how stable Minnesota Hockey is. My previous statement says it all. Despite half the population, we have more registered players than Michigan does. To turn your question back on you, is Michigan hockey "fine and dandy"?

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

I don't like Minnesota, blah, blah, blah, blah.

If you dropped the chip off your shoulder your point might have a chance to shine through. Argue the merits of your proposal instead of waging a war of words against an apparently sworn enemy.

 

[AVFC]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

I am not sure you could be more patently false and idiotic...you could probably try but you would fail. (much like this post)

No one has said anything like that here and your use of this topic to go on some myopic rant about Minnesota hockey shows it is YOU that is xenophobic. No one here said ANYTHING like what you were talking about, the only thing was Happy is a Minnesota fan and you are going off like you went to Madison or something because somebody said something at another time that was prideful of Minnesota's system. Keep up the good fight dude

Despite what you seem to think USA Hockey /= Minnesota hockey. Michigan and New England have different systems and guess what, they are aok by pretty much everyone. We may not embrace it here but so what. Prep hockey and midget hockey are good where they are used, HS hockey works here. Get out of the 1970s already.

And I hope the NCAA never allows the MJ players in. The kid knows the choice he is making, deal with it.

But why? Simply because it is the current rule or some a priori truth? If people can't articulate a justification for this position, others are going to presume it is because the supporters of the current rule perceive it as a threat to their programs.

 

[AVFC]

Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs

And for the record, no, we don't need any "long-winded sermons" on how stable Minnesota Hockey is. My previous statement says it all. Despite half the population, we have more registered players than Michigan does. To turn your question back on you, is Michigan hockey "fine and dandy"?

Wow, 74 more members. That sure is significant.
http://unitedstatesofhockey.com/201...rpasses-500000-registered-players-in-2010-11/