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Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
- Thread starter Split-N
- Start date
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Riiight...well China has 4x the population as us yet they absolutely stink in hockey....their development model must be broken? Why don't you start using some facts in your arguments instead of making things up, it is not a fact that the majority of Michigan's youth players choose the CHL route, just like it isn't a fact that Michigan has more registered hockey players (youth level) than Minny.
Again, hockey is not the most popular sport in Michigan. Michigan does not have more registered players than Minnesota...in fact it has around 12000 less registered youth players than Minnesota does but despite Minnesota's clear numeric advantage, it only has a measly 4 more players in the NHL than does Michigan!
So who has the development problem??? Hint...it aint Michigan!
Riiight...well China has 4x the population as us yet they absolutely stink in hockey....their development model must be broken? Why don't you start using some facts in your arguments instead of making things up, it is not a fact that the majority of Michigan's youth players choose the CHL route, just like it isn't a fact that Michigan has more registered hockey players (youth level) than Minny.
Again, hockey is not the most popular sport in Michigan. Michigan does not have more registered players than Minnesota...in fact it has around 12000 less registered youth players than Minnesota does but despite Minnesota's clear numeric advantage, it only has a measly 4 more players in the NHL than does Michigan!
So who has the development problem??? Hint...it aint Michigan!
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
More yapping from my favorite pup....show me the evidence boy....until then stop putting words into my mouth cause I know I never made the claim that the CHL is > than the NCAA
Western Ontario, a CIS school that has a roster of mainly "aged out" CHLers beat both LSSU and Michigan State last year and only lost to Michigan by a score of 4-2. I saw this school play and I can tell you that many of those players could have not only made Lake State's roster but improved it by a significant amount and allowed it to better compete against the Wisconsin's and Michigan's of the world.[/QUOTE]
1. every post you make re: CHL proves the point. you're on here constantly (as exhibited throughout this thread, and if you use the search function properly throughout many prior threads) extolling the virtues of the all-mighty CHL and it's SO great. by the constant comparisons and trying to stick it to the NCAA fans by saying the CHL is stealing all the top players from NCAA...uhm I don't know. I'd say that you're position is CHL>NCAA, and not only that but you're hell bent on making the rest of us believe that.
most of us don't. so give it a rest.
2. If a CIS team defeated LSSU in an exhibition or MSU great. that's not enough evidence for me to believe a group of 20-21-22 CHL'ers would improve the NCAA. let them join LSSU and then see what happens when that same LSSU team takes on BC, UW, MN, Nodak, DU, Mich...it will be the same result w/LSSU on the losing end and severely outplayed.
so how does that improve the NCAA brand?
in order to prove your point you'd have to have a CIS team play a full season against NCAA, OR...have the rule lifted and see how many, if any, of these guys make NCAA rosters
3. as for the little pup comments. grow up
More yapping from my favorite pup....show me the evidence boy....until then stop putting words into my mouth cause I know I never made the claim that the CHL is > than the NCAA
Western Ontario, a CIS school that has a roster of mainly "aged out" CHLers beat both LSSU and Michigan State last year and only lost to Michigan by a score of 4-2. I saw this school play and I can tell you that many of those players could have not only made Lake State's roster but improved it by a significant amount and allowed it to better compete against the Wisconsin's and Michigan's of the world.[/QUOTE]
1. every post you make re: CHL proves the point. you're on here constantly (as exhibited throughout this thread, and if you use the search function properly throughout many prior threads) extolling the virtues of the all-mighty CHL and it's SO great. by the constant comparisons and trying to stick it to the NCAA fans by saying the CHL is stealing all the top players from NCAA...uhm I don't know. I'd say that you're position is CHL>NCAA, and not only that but you're hell bent on making the rest of us believe that.
most of us don't. so give it a rest.
2. If a CIS team defeated LSSU in an exhibition or MSU great. that's not enough evidence for me to believe a group of 20-21-22 CHL'ers would improve the NCAA. let them join LSSU and then see what happens when that same LSSU team takes on BC, UW, MN, Nodak, DU, Mich...it will be the same result w/LSSU on the losing end and severely outplayed.
so how does that improve the NCAA brand?
in order to prove your point you'd have to have a CIS team play a full season against NCAA, OR...have the rule lifted and see how many, if any, of these guys make NCAA rosters
3. as for the little pup comments. grow up
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Personally I prefer NCAA hockey. I have season tickets to the LSSU Lakers. I follow college hockey. I even waste my time posting and arguing on the internet about college hockey. I attend a few Greyhound games per year, depending on my schedule. I follow the standings, watch OHL games on TV from time to time.
This was never about what is better: the CHL or the NCAA. The problem with that argument is that you are comparing apples to oranges. NCAA hockey and Major Junior hockey are not the same. Major junior hockey is much the same as Junior A hockey. NCAA hockey has almost no peer because its an odd intermediate step between juniors and any level of prfessional hockey. I dont think the question of development being a battle between the NCAA and the CHL is apt.
More appropriate, I believe you should compare the CHL to the USHL or Provincial Junior A or high school. Those are all, allegedly, at the same level, dealing with kids who are 16-18 years old, primarily. Even at the fartherst age of 20, when junior leagues age out and high school is long history, that is the age many, if not most, NCAA players are just arriving on campus (or within the age of 19-20).
So the argument of which is better will always lead to frustration because there is no real direct comparison -- with the lone exception that both NCAA and CHL apepar to be one step removed from the NHL (A horrible lie that both CHL and NCAA coaches sell, thick and juicy, to hungry recruits and thier families. The NHL is not ever likely a reality for most every CHL and NCAA player. Most CHL and NCAA players end up padding out rosters in the AHL and the ECHL, or head to Europe).
The comparison between Minnesota's development system and the rest of the hockey playing world is also a waste of time. It has been proven time and again, at least to my eyes, that Minnesotans have neither the interest, desire, or ability to understand or appreciate the way the rest of the hockey world operates. Arguing with Minnesotans about the development system will merely bring out the horribly predictable responses we have all read, hundreds of times, year after year, post after post. And you can trot out numbers, names of great players - it falls on deaf ears who would prefer to be happily ignorant. And you can try to have a simple conversation about how "other" people develop youth hockey players -- it all falls on deaf ears.
The only reason the Minnesota system comes up at all in this topic is because I opened that ugly bottle by suggesting that Minnesota's xenophobia, bias, anti-Canadianism, anti-anything but high school hockey prejudice, was the root cause of the CHL ban being implimented and certainly is one of the root causes of the CHL ban remaining --- despite the harm it causes the NCAA.
I have read this thread through, and I admit I don't have a smoking gun which points to Minnesotans prefering the CHL ban in the 1970's. But I have read enough herein to Confirm the common belief that Minnesotan's are isolated and ignorant hockey biggots vis-a-vis the rest of the hockey world. Sorry if you don't like the harsh language, but I think its wrong that the NCAA hockey system is being held captive because Minnesotans choose to exist in a closed minded society. Personally, I don't care about Minnesota at all -- in any respect. But if ending the CHL ban allows a fw talented Minnesota boys to break free from the oppresive society which seeks to keep them confined to their local high school by keeping them purposefully ignorant of their freedom of choice, then perhaps ending the ban lead to a greater USA Hockey development system, free of the regional prejudice and biggotry that Minnesotans seem to seek to protect.
Personally I prefer NCAA hockey. I have season tickets to the LSSU Lakers. I follow college hockey. I even waste my time posting and arguing on the internet about college hockey. I attend a few Greyhound games per year, depending on my schedule. I follow the standings, watch OHL games on TV from time to time.
This was never about what is better: the CHL or the NCAA. The problem with that argument is that you are comparing apples to oranges. NCAA hockey and Major Junior hockey are not the same. Major junior hockey is much the same as Junior A hockey. NCAA hockey has almost no peer because its an odd intermediate step between juniors and any level of prfessional hockey. I dont think the question of development being a battle between the NCAA and the CHL is apt.
More appropriate, I believe you should compare the CHL to the USHL or Provincial Junior A or high school. Those are all, allegedly, at the same level, dealing with kids who are 16-18 years old, primarily. Even at the fartherst age of 20, when junior leagues age out and high school is long history, that is the age many, if not most, NCAA players are just arriving on campus (or within the age of 19-20).
So the argument of which is better will always lead to frustration because there is no real direct comparison -- with the lone exception that both NCAA and CHL apepar to be one step removed from the NHL (A horrible lie that both CHL and NCAA coaches sell, thick and juicy, to hungry recruits and thier families. The NHL is not ever likely a reality for most every CHL and NCAA player. Most CHL and NCAA players end up padding out rosters in the AHL and the ECHL, or head to Europe).
The comparison between Minnesota's development system and the rest of the hockey playing world is also a waste of time. It has been proven time and again, at least to my eyes, that Minnesotans have neither the interest, desire, or ability to understand or appreciate the way the rest of the hockey world operates. Arguing with Minnesotans about the development system will merely bring out the horribly predictable responses we have all read, hundreds of times, year after year, post after post. And you can trot out numbers, names of great players - it falls on deaf ears who would prefer to be happily ignorant. And you can try to have a simple conversation about how "other" people develop youth hockey players -- it all falls on deaf ears.
The only reason the Minnesota system comes up at all in this topic is because I opened that ugly bottle by suggesting that Minnesota's xenophobia, bias, anti-Canadianism, anti-anything but high school hockey prejudice, was the root cause of the CHL ban being implimented and certainly is one of the root causes of the CHL ban remaining --- despite the harm it causes the NCAA.
I have read this thread through, and I admit I don't have a smoking gun which points to Minnesotans prefering the CHL ban in the 1970's. But I have read enough herein to Confirm the common belief that Minnesotan's are isolated and ignorant hockey biggots vis-a-vis the rest of the hockey world. Sorry if you don't like the harsh language, but I think its wrong that the NCAA hockey system is being held captive because Minnesotans choose to exist in a closed minded society. Personally, I don't care about Minnesota at all -- in any respect. But if ending the CHL ban allows a fw talented Minnesota boys to break free from the oppresive society which seeks to keep them confined to their local high school by keeping them purposefully ignorant of their freedom of choice, then perhaps ending the ban lead to a greater USA Hockey development system, free of the regional prejudice and biggotry that Minnesotans seem to seek to protect.
First Time Long Time
Rebuilding
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
When are you going to learn that preferring the Minnesota High School model is not xenophobic?
When are you also going to learn that some of us have seen the CHL and it's model and prefer the NCAA one?
Stop trying to convince us about the CHL, it's not going to happen.
When are you going to learn that preferring the Minnesota High School model is not xenophobic?
When are you also going to learn that some of us have seen the CHL and it's model and prefer the NCAA one?
Stop trying to convince us about the CHL, it's not going to happen.
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Once again you fail....I simply asked for you to back up your claim of where I "constantly" state the CHL is better than the NCAA and you provide nothing more than your usual drivel...In short, you cannot claim nor prove that CHL players will not increase the talent level in the NCAA, so perhaps it is you who needs to give it a rest on a thread that was not started by me but centered on the current NCAA visa vis CHL relationship.
Many of these posters feel so threatened by anything to do with the CHL that they always make it a NCAA vs CHL debate.
And that is the real crux of the matter...it isn't so much a CHL bias as an anti Canadian one.
Like Lakeblue, I am a proud Lakers supporter and attend the majority of their games. I am obviously a huge college fan but I also attend many Greyhound games as well and am an admirer of the CHL...the two co-exist quite well in our area of the world and there really isn't any valid reason (as this thread has shown) why CHL players should be excluded from playing in the NCAA.
[/QUOTE]
Once again you fail....I simply asked for you to back up your claim of where I "constantly" state the CHL is better than the NCAA and you provide nothing more than your usual drivel...In short, you cannot claim nor prove that CHL players will not increase the talent level in the NCAA, so perhaps it is you who needs to give it a rest on a thread that was not started by me but centered on the current NCAA visa vis CHL relationship.
Many of these posters feel so threatened by anything to do with the CHL that they always make it a NCAA vs CHL debate.
And that is the real crux of the matter...it isn't so much a CHL bias as an anti Canadian one.
Like Lakeblue, I am a proud Lakers supporter and attend the majority of their games. I am obviously a huge college fan but I also attend many Greyhound games as well and am an admirer of the CHL...the two co-exist quite well in our area of the world and there really isn't any valid reason (as this thread has shown) why CHL players should be excluded from playing in the NCAA.
First Time Long Time
Rebuilding
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Anti-Canadian?
Seriously, shut up, and go find a CHL board to spew your garbage.
Anti-Canadian?
Seriously, shut up, and go find a CHL board to spew your garbage.
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
I hate Minnesota, but they eat live and Sh!+ hockey there. That's a big difference.
JDUBBS1280
MN Hockey Enthusiast
Try to keep up. These are facts:
- Michigan has nearly twice the population as Minnesota.
- Minnesota has roughly 70 more players registered with USA Hockey.
- Far more players from Michigan play in the CHL every year than do players from Minnesota (only 6 players from MN last year).
- Minnesota has as many, if not more, players as Michigan does in the NHL every year.
So you tell me whose development model is broken. Despite having roughly the same number of registered players, we produce roughly the same number (or more) NHL players. Only difference is, on average, our players are much more likely to stick around and play NCAA hockey, while more of your players, proportionately, leave to play in the CHL.
So again, instead of pointing fingers at Minnesota hockey and saying we're responsible for YOUR players losing their NCAA eligibility because THEY chose to play in the CHL, why don't you look for the root cause as to WHY your players are going to the CHL in the first place.
So why are so many players from Michigan going to play in the CHL instead of playing in the NCAA? It can't be development, because as I said, our players stick around, play NCAA hockey, and make it to the NHL as often, if not more, than your players do.
Maybe you should look at what's wrong with your youth development model instead of blaming us for your player's decisions. Or, just enjoy watching your players play in the CHL, because you clearly enjoy that.
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Slap Shot
I got nothing
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Once and for all stop whining about other's opinions and start providing tangible reasons why the system should be changed. You're not going to make your argument simply by chastising others.
Once and for all stop whining about other's opinions and start providing tangible reasons why the system should be changed. You're not going to make your argument simply by chastising others.
Happy
Registered User
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Are you sure you're not from Canada? Because I hate overage Ex-CHL Canadians, and you seem like a ******, too.
Are you sure you're not from Canada? Because I hate overage Ex-CHL Canadians, and you seem like a ******, too.
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Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
O.K JDUBBS1280, lets hit the re-set button here....
Very good, Michigan does indeed have twice the population of Minnesota but so what? China has 4x the population of the U.S. and how many hockey players does China produce??? To bring it a little closer to home, the U.S. has 10x the population of Canada yet Canada has 3x the number of players in the NHL than the U.S. Using your logic, both China's and the U.S.'s development system are in utter shambles....looking at reality, hockey in China is non existant and hockey in the U.S. ranks at the bottom of the four major sports played. So total population means squat in terms of who or what development system is better and produces more. For the upteenth time, hockey in Michigan is not the most popular sport, if it were, we would easily surpass Minnesota because of our population...but it's not...get it?!?!
True but only an incomplete picture...tell me, how many NHL prospects are produced in the adult rec leagues...that's right ZERO, so when we look at numbers we need to look at the numbers in the youth system, from squirts all the way to juniors. Michigan has a total of 31651 players 18 and under...the rest are, save for 200 college players, playing in adult rec leagues. Now Minnesota has 46595 18 and under players....a significant amount more than Michigan but despite having 15000 more players, the state can only produce 4 more NHLers....the only conclusion that you can draw from this FACTUAL STATISTIC is that Minnesota's developmental model is not as effective nor efficient as Michigan's as Michigan produces far more NHLers relative to its youth participation in hockey than Minnesota.
True, but so what, the CHL is a feasable route here in Michigan but far more still take the NCAA route.
We are not pointing fingers...only stating the obvious, that the NCAA ban on CHL players serves no useful purpose for no one and should be abolished.
Can you read? If so, here a quote from your esteemed Happyfoot....
O.K JDUBBS1280, lets hit the re-set button here....
Very good, Michigan does indeed have twice the population of Minnesota but so what? China has 4x the population of the U.S. and how many hockey players does China produce??? To bring it a little closer to home, the U.S. has 10x the population of Canada yet Canada has 3x the number of players in the NHL than the U.S. Using your logic, both China's and the U.S.'s development system are in utter shambles....looking at reality, hockey in China is non existant and hockey in the U.S. ranks at the bottom of the four major sports played. So total population means squat in terms of who or what development system is better and produces more. For the upteenth time, hockey in Michigan is not the most popular sport, if it were, we would easily surpass Minnesota because of our population...but it's not...get it?!?!
True but only an incomplete picture...tell me, how many NHL prospects are produced in the adult rec leagues...that's right ZERO, so when we look at numbers we need to look at the numbers in the youth system, from squirts all the way to juniors. Michigan has a total of 31651 players 18 and under...the rest are, save for 200 college players, playing in adult rec leagues. Now Minnesota has 46595 18 and under players....a significant amount more than Michigan but despite having 15000 more players, the state can only produce 4 more NHLers....the only conclusion that you can draw from this FACTUAL STATISTIC is that Minnesota's developmental model is not as effective nor efficient as Michigan's as Michigan produces far more NHLers relative to its youth participation in hockey than Minnesota.
True, but so what, the CHL is a feasable route here in Michigan but far more still take the NCAA route.
We are not pointing fingers...only stating the obvious, that the NCAA ban on CHL players serves no useful purpose for no one and should be abolished.
.
Can you read? If so, here a quote from your esteemed Happyfoot....
First Time Long Time
Rebuilding
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Happy is a troll and baiting you.
The fact you are taking him seriously speaks volumes about you.
Happy is a troll and baiting you.
The fact you are taking him seriously speaks volumes about you.
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Oh no doubt that the ole man is trollish but there aint any bait in his pile.....he has consistantly stated his opposition to any and all things CHL and Canadian....just look at his tag line
Yeah, speaks volumes for you too.
Oh no doubt that the ole man is trollish but there aint any bait in his pile.....he has consistantly stated his opposition to any and all things CHL and Canadian....just look at his tag line
Yeah, speaks volumes for you too.
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Go to a NoDak thread. This is child's play for Happy.
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Well he's a bitter old cheese goat, jealous of NoDak's success, especially the success they have with Canadian players.
Well he's a bitter old cheese goat, jealous of NoDak's success, especially the success they have with Canadian players.
Happy
Registered User
Re: Raids on Collge Hockey Programs
Yeah, way to cover my back. I hate Canadians so much, almost every weekend I head on up to the border, and take a dump at the
http://www.peacegarden.com/
as a way to give the Canadians coming across the border a little show of disrespect.
And, when Sidney Crosby was playing for Shattuck-St. Marys in
Faribault, I used to toss loonies and toonies at his head just to get him to go back to Canada. I didn't want him screwing up Minnesota High School hockey.
Yeah, way to cover my back. I hate Canadians so much, almost every weekend I head on up to the border, and take a dump at the
http://www.peacegarden.com/
as a way to give the Canadians coming across the border a little show of disrespect.
And, when Sidney Crosby was playing for Shattuck-St. Marys in
Faribault, I used to toss loonies and toonies at his head just to get him to go back to Canada. I didn't want him screwing up Minnesota High School hockey.