POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

How do you combat single-issue voting? Especially when it's religious or effectively religious (guns)

It's impossible, especially on GUNZ!1!! You can argue until you're blue in the face with people like Drew and Flag that claim the gun-grabbers are coming, and they're going to jail all the gun owners. You can even point out that you're a gun owner yourself, and grew up hunting, but feel the NRA is an extremist organization and there is some compromise to be had. They still won't listen, and they'll call you a fascist and a gun-grabber. Their NRA cult programming won't allow them to think any other way.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Politicians can guarantee my guns, but there is only so much they can do as far as my health or employment go. The distinction seems lost on a lot of people.

It's def lost on me why people care so deeply about guns. I'll never get it as long as I live. Just baffling to me.

 

[The Sicatoka]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

The dems need to stop getting mad at the outrage of the day and stay on message.

They'd do well to take your advice. It's hard to know what the dems stand for other than protesting, abortions, and trying to put gun owners in jail.

Uh, uno, you sort of said the same thing. I'd say Drew took and just defined what "stay on message" more often than not sounds like.

Mrs. Clinton lost, in part, because she had no clear message on the economy. If she said "IT SUCKS!" she'd be dis'n Mr. Obama and she'd not be separating from Trump. By not saying anything she allowed Trump to win that message space (and thus WI, MI, and PA).

This is an area where liberals should define the message and stay on message. (I don't believe Trump's economy is going to work so it'll be ripe for targeting.)

 

[unofan]

Uh, uno, you sort of said the same thing. I'd say Drew took and just defined what "stay on message" more often than not sounds like.

Mrs. Clinton lost, in part, because she had no clear message on the economy. If she said "IT SUCKS!" she'd be dis'n Mr. Obama and she'd not be separating from Trump. By not saying anything she allowed Trump to win that message space (and thus WI, MI, and PA).

This is an area where liberals should define the message and stay on message. (I don't believe Trump's economy is going to work so it'll be ripe for targeting.)

And I can be right and still be saddened that I am right. And still think people who believe such b.s. like "put gun owners in jail" are morons even if I think the dems need to use similar tactics.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

No, Clinton lost because she wouldn't lie to blue collar workers in the Rust Belt and tell them that she alone could make unskilled, well-paid manufacturing and mining jobs that were lost 10+ years ago, magically re-appear because she's such a GREAT negotiator of YUUUGE deals.

She also lost because 25 years of phony Clinton scandal-mongering by Republicans finally paid off.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Politicians can guarantee my guns, but there is only so much they can do as far as my health or employment go. The distinction seems lost on a lot of people.

It's as if you believe universal health care and universal basic income are myths created by European socialists...

 

[unofan]

I wasn't being totally serious, but what would say the top three things are on the democrat's agenda?

Education, environment, and civil rights, not necessarily in that order.

 

[Jimjamesak]

No, Clinton lost because she wouldn't lie to blue collar workers in the Rust Belt and tell them that she alone could make unskilled, well-paid manufacturing and mining jobs that were lost 10+ years ago, magically re-appear because she's such a GREAT negotiator of YUUUGE deals.

She also lost because 25 years of phony Clinton scandal-mongering by Republicans finally paid off.

This.

Don't forget that Clinton won the popular vote. The message is working towards people, it's the broken system that holds it back. It's a battle of territory vs population, and the system favors territory.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

Politicians can guarantee my guns, but there is only so much they can do as far as my health or employment go. The distinction seems lost on a lot of people.

Wow.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

No, Clinton lost because she wouldn't lie to blue collar workers in the Rust Belt and tell them that she alone could make unskilled, well-paid manufacturing and mining jobs that were lost 10+ years ago, magically re-appear because she's such a GREAT negotiator of YUUUGE deals.

She also lost because 25 years of phony Clinton scandal-mongering by Republicans finally paid off.

Now we're getting it. It appears to be what many haven't yet figured out. Kudos.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

No, Clinton lost because she wouldn't lie to blue collar workers in the Rust Belt and tell them that she alone could make unskilled, well-paid manufacturing and mining jobs that were lost 10+ years ago, magically re-appear because she's such a GREAT negotiator of YUUUGE deals.

She also lost because 25 years of phony Clinton scandal-mongering by Republicans finally paid off.

Correct.

The latter is unreproduceable, but the former will keep killing us as long as we keep telling the truth. So stop. The GOP figured this out under Reagan. And after Trump it appears that even getting caught in overt lies doesn't matter any more. So, if the public doesn't respond to the truth, just lie. Disconnect campaign rhetoric from reality, promise anything, get into power, then do what we were gonna do anyway and if we're right conditions will improve. If we're wrong we can try something else but in the meantime just lie and say things are great! That is right's current model of campaigning, and it works.

For 36 years the Democrats have been the party of graduate school and the Republicans have been the party of junior high school. Well, a lot more people went to junior high school than graduate school. Stop trying to appeal to people's intelligence and start appealing to their "gut." I know, I know, that's all BS, but the point is they don't and never will.

You don't win elections by saying, "hey -- you guys have really been stupid!" You win by saying, "hey, you guys are GREAT , now let's go kill THE OTHER!"

Just make the other the rich. Poor people hate the rich by instinct anyway. Shouldn't be that hard.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

The blue collars won't help themselves though. They think the sort of jobs they used to do can be forced back to the US with protectionist and anti-immigration measures. If Trump fails to employ all these rubes in 4 years, he'll blame it on obstructionist tactics from manufacturers, unions, and the left, and his supporters will eat it up. They refuse to acknowledge that they have to change with the times, and they love the fact that Trump never takes responsibility for his own missteps.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

No, Clinton lost because she wouldn't lie to blue collar workers in the Rust Belt and tell them that she alone could make unskilled, well-paid manufacturing and mining jobs that were lost 10+ years ago, magically re-appear because she's such a GREAT negotiator of YUUUGE deals.

She also lost because 25 years of phony Clinton scandal-mongering by Republicans finally paid off.

I'm sure I'll be blasted here for this again, but I don't believe that's why she lost.

I don't know how many tv interviews I saw or stories I read where middle class or lower middle class citizens, oftentimes rural, just trying to live a good life and working paycheck to paycheck, were asked how they could support a billionaire, and did they really think he would build the wall and stop every company from moving jobs outside the country, etc... And almost universally they gave some variation of the same answer, which was "Well, yeah, I don't know that he's going to be able to do those things, but what do we have to lose. They aren't going to change with Clinton in office."

Basically, people who felt like they were stuck on a treadmill that was spinning faster than they could run knew they were being sold, at least in part, an empty bill of goods by Trump, but basically decided what the he!!, it can't get any worse.

I agree. It is a peculiar line of thinking and a peculiar choice of a person to throw the support to, but I believe a substantial number of Americans fell within that category.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

Education, environment, and civil rights, not necessarily in that order.

I was going to say equal rights, environment, education. Weird.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

I'm sure I'll be blasted here for this again, but I don't believe that's why she lost.

I don't know how many tv interviews I saw or stories I read where middle class or lower middle class citizens, oftentimes rural, just trying to live a good life and working paycheck to paycheck, were asked how they could support a billionaire, and did they really think he would build the wall and stop every company from moving jobs outside the country, etc... And almost universally they gave some variation of the same answer, which was "Well, yeah, I don't know that he's going to be able to do those things, but what do we have to lose. They aren't going to change with Clinton in office."

Basically, people who felt like they were stuck on a treadmill that was spinning faster than they could run knew they were being sold, at least in part, an empty bill of goods by Trump, but basically decided what the he!!, it can't get any worse.

I agree. It is a peculiar line of thinking and a peculiar choice of a person to throw the support to, but I believe a substantial number of Americans fell within that category.

It's not peculiar it's delusional.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

I'm sure I'll be blasted here for this again, but I don't believe that's why she lost.

I don't know how many tv interviews I saw or stories I read where middle class or lower middle class citizens, oftentimes rural, just trying to live a good life and working paycheck to paycheck, were asked how they could support a billionaire, and did they really think he would build the wall and stop every company from moving jobs outside the country, etc... And almost universally they gave some variation of the same answer, which was "Well, yeah, I don't know that he's going to be able to do those things, but what do we have to lose. They aren't going to change with Clinton in office."

Basically, people who felt like they were stuck on a treadmill that was spinning faster than they could run knew they were being sold, at least in part, an empty bill of goods by Trump, but basically decided what the he!!, it can't get any worse.

I agree. It is a peculiar line of thinking and a peculiar choice of a person to throw the support to, but I believe a substantial number of Americans fell within that category.

The Clinton name, and everything rightly or wrongly associated with it, was certainly a big part of it. "We can go with the status quo (Hillary), or we can elect this guy (Trump) and really what would be the difference if he ends up being more of the same? Putting in Hillary just makes the Clintons a dynasty like the Bushes or the Kennedys. Nobody listens to us country folk anyway."

It's an incredibly pigheaded way to elect a POTUS, but...

 

[Drew S.]

I'm sure I'll be blasted here for this again, but I don't believe that's why she lost.

I don't know how many tv interviews I saw or stories I read where middle class or lower middle class citizens, oftentimes rural, just trying to live a good life and working paycheck to paycheck, were asked how they could support a billionaire, and did they really think he would build the wall and stop every company from moving jobs outside the country, etc... And almost universally they gave some variation of the same answer, which was "Well, yeah, I don't know that he's going to be able to do those things, but what do we have to lose. They aren't going to change with Clinton in office."

Basically, people who felt like they were stuck on a treadmill that was spinning faster than they could run knew they were being sold, at least in part, an empty bill of goods by Trump, but basically decided what the he!!, it can't get any worse.

I agree. It is a peculiar line of thinking and a peculiar choice of a person to throw the support to, but I believe a substantial number of Americans fell within that category.

They say madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Trump was the trying something different. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.

 

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

The Clinton name, and everything rightly or wrongly associated with it, was certainly a big part of it. "We can go with the status quo (Hillary), or we can elect this guy (Trump) and really what would be the difference if he ends up being more of the same? Putting in Hillary just makes the Clintons a dynasty like the Bushes or the Kennedys. Nobody listens to us country folk anyway."

It's an incredibly pigheaded way to elect a POTUS, but...

And yet these morons will be crying for Ivanka in a decade. A trump dynasty will be just fine with them

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

The blue collars won't help themselves though.

A lot of them will. The readjustment is we stop helping those who won't. F-ck em.

Those who won't take the train, leave them behind. We've wasted too much time and effort on people who don't want to be helped. Stop wasting resources trying to redeem them, they're useless.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS 45.3 - Bowling Green Massacre Memorial Thread

They say madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Trump was the trying something different. Whether it works or not remains to be seen.

No, madness is voting for a kleptocrat showing signs of mental illness who has a white nationalist as his chief advisor and a man who can't tell conspiracy theory from fact as his intelligence officer.