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POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

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Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

I know about the Stars and Bars, Handy. Hence my qualification "as we know it," as in current form. So don't lecture me on that.

And secondly, the biggest shouting I hear about the southern monuments is because of racism/slaves. See also: re-naming Lake Calhoun. I just want consistency at that point.

I dont want Lake Calhoun changed...it makes no sense.

I would be all for keeping the Southern Monuments if they werent now rallying cries for racists. That seems to be their Alamo now so let them watch it burn. They dont want it up for Historical perspective, they want them to honor the racist traitors. Well...
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Washington's top 5 moves as a field general were basically all retreats. His strength was always keeping the army around to fight another day, and not much on battlefield tactics.

Yes he was the man who could inspire (tallest man in the room) but he wasnt much for tactics. Nothing wrong with that.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Not really he just had better subordinates. Stonewall Jackson was the brains behind the Army of Northern Virginia which is why they went to crap after they died. Jackson never lets Lee order Pickett's March on Day 3 of Gettysburg.

And Brent, Washington being a traitor against Britain is immaterial. WE DONT LIVE IN BRITAIN!! That parallel is stupid when racists use it and you are smarter than that. The second the Revolutionary War was over he was a local hero. The second the South lost Lee was a traitor. That is how it works. If America loses Washington is hanged. If the South wins Lee probably becomes President of the Free State of Virginia. That didnt happen so it doesnt matter.
A traitor is a traitor. It's the act, not the results, that matter. ;)

I agree on the Lake Calhoun thing. Hence me saying, hey, if THAT'S the reason for a change, we have a whole slew of things that need to be changed.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Please don't rule out Antifa. There just as big idiots as the neos.
This is so ****ing absurd. Neo nazis have committed more terrorist acts than Muslims in this country for a while now and you're equating them to antifa?
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

This is so ****ing absurd. Neo nazis have committed more terrorist acts than Muslims in this country for a while now and you're equating them to antifa?

I agree with trix. :eek:

Antifa, while noble in their cause, are fine until they resort to violence that is not self-defense/etc. Then I don't like them one bit. "They yelled stuff at us" and "they spew hate" are not justifiable excuses.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Yes he was the man who could inspire (tallest man in the room) but he wasnt much for tactics. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh yeah, not saying there was, it most definitely got the job done.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Maybe when the South isnt still a haven for racists I will consider it. You can compare them to Nazi Germany all you want Germany atoned the South still hasnt. In fact many embrace still it. Lincoln forgave because he had to let them back in and let the country heal. We have seen how that has screwed us over since he made that choice. If he had lived he would have condemned the South for how they acted for 100 years after the War. (and farther...it isnt like they have harmony now)

And Brent, please stop with that fallacy. First of all the flag that is used by Skynard and Dukes is not the Stars and Bars. This is the Stars and Bars and is almost never associated with racism. The flag that symbolizes racism is the Beauregard Flag or the Southern Cross and it most certainly is a symbol of all the negative aspects of the South.

Second, the Southern Culture is derived from the Confederacy no matter how much people pretend it isnt. The Dukes car is called the General Lee for a reason. Southern attitude is based on the stereotype of the South that dates back to when exactly...I know there is this myth that the Southern Pride is /= to embracing the Confederacy but literally every piece of observable evidence goes against it. Whether it is the use of "The Rebel Yell", chants like "The South Shall Rise Again" or using the battle flag of the Confederacy it screams it. That they refuse to admit it out of fear of being called out for it doesnt change that fact. They may not be racist, but they definitely identify with the idea of the Southern Confederacy.

It's fun to watch brent twist himself into knots trying to defend a racist symbol while still trying to condemn racism.

"You know, the swastika, as we know it now, has come to mean..."
 
It's fun to watch brent twist himself into knots trying to defend a racist symbol while still trying to condemn racism.

"You know, the swastika, as we know it now, has come to mean..."
The swastika actually has a rich and noble history in many unique cultures before the Nazis appropriated it for evil. Your point is taken, but bad comparison (it's somewhat interesting that primitive people on different continents independently used it as an important symbol)
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Baltimore removed it's Confederate statues overnight, per WTOP radio.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Washington's top 5 moves as a field general were basically all retreats. His strength was always keeping the army around to fight another day, and not much on battlefield tactics.

He was a great grand strategic general. He knew his classics.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

I agree with trix. :eek:

Antifa, while noble in their cause, are fine until they resort to violence that is not self-defense/etc. Then I don't like them one bit. "They yelled stuff at us" and "they spew hate" are not justifiable excuses.

You do know they're bused in by Soros to create terror at these events, yes?
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Borrowing from Stephen Colbert...

...It's weird that Trump wasn't as angry nor quick to condemn neo-Nazis and murder as he was with Hillary Clinton, Obama, the NYT, CNN, Joe Scarborough, Kristin Stewart, the cast of Hamilton, CNN, Fake News, Diet Coke, Nordstroms, Arnold Schwartenager, the Mayor of London, Sedik Kahn, Steven Colbert, the state of NH, Gold Star families, Penn Gilette, Meryl Streep, Django Unchained, CEOs from the Manufacturing Council...
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

The monument protesters in Durham, NC toppled will likely be put back up. There is state law prohibiting the removal of them.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

IIRC 30 some odd signers of the Declaration of Independence were slave owners.

IIRC at the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg, the survivors marched across the field and shook hands with each other.

What about the Nazis?

We read the writings of Nazi generals and admirals, some who served in the new West German armed forces. They served an evil government, yet we didn't shoot/hang them all. Some were respected lecturers after the war in this country.

Our German scientists were better than Russia's German scientists and we got to the moon first.

We hate the Nazis but like the Germans? Why can't we decry the Rebellion and honor the participants?

IMHO, you are mistaking history, and the forgiveness of time to honoring people who were losers.

Some like to think the statues represent history. And in some aspects they do. But the history could probably be better shown in a simple marker, perhaps with some of the names of the dead.

Instead, the statues are there to make us think that the confederate generals were some kind of hero. They are not. They were just part of a losing battle.

I've seen Lee's efforts washed over here and on other boards- after the war he was some kind of gentleman, or that he was just fighting for Virginia, bla bla bla.

Which is to suggest that he fought for the wrong side in the war, as he was against slavery.

It would be interesting to ask the thousands of dead confederate soldiers he commanded into death about that line of thinking. Or the thousands of Union soldiers that died due to his command the same thing.

The man was a key part in 300,000 people killed in the Civil war. Had he fought for the north, perhaps less would have died, and the separation between the north and south would not be nearly has harsh, as the war would have ended a lot sooner.

But he didn't. He fought for the side that every single goal pointed to keeping slavery to make people rich. Killed a lot of people. And lost. How does that make him a hero or a gentleman?
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

It's fun to watch brent twist himself into knots trying to defend a racist symbol while still trying to condemn racism.

"You know, the swastika, as we know it now, has come to mean..."


You can't address or fix anything unless you address or fix everything.

Coz... you know... consistency.
 
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