POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Hannity and Gingrich ran full on cover for President Trump last night. There was some on Fox yesterday who were speaking out against the President (Maddow ran the clips) but the big dog Hannity has taken up shop with the White Supremacists and Neo-Nazi's.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Time to stop being politically correct and just say it. The President of the United States is a racist.

I said that 5 minutes after his candidacy announcement. No one listened.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

The monument protesters in Durham, NC toppled will likely be put back up. There is state law prohibiting the removal of them.

Deadspin had an article on this. It's actually against the law to even move it to a museum....

http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/north-carolina-isnt-ready-for-this-but-the-gop-was-1797870082

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

The antis who are/were peaceful protesters are innocents. The antis with clubs or who wanted to start a violent confrontation are not.

The civil rights movement won because they never attacked when hit with fire hoses and dogs and, yes, when some were murdered. Dr. King realized Gahndi won while Jeff Davis lost.

But that's not what Trump is saying. Trump is saying that there is an equivalent distribution of good and bad people in the two sets white supremacists and people opposed to white supremacists.

Stop defending this guy. Stop giving him cover. This is the American moral crisis-- it's here, right now. I know that cutting him off and denouncing him may seem like a short term political loss for conservative philosophy, but (1) this is the central fight for the American soul, going back 250 years -- it's time to pick a side, and (2) from a pragmatic point of view, if you don't want your long term policy aims to go down forever entangled with this guy and his virulent hatred you have to actively disentangle them. Right now you're lying down with that dog, and you're going to get up with fleas you may never get rid of.

Even the GOP who for decades has been winking at this to sop up those votes has all but given up now and is "shocked, shocked" that there's racism going on here. Even those cynical basturds have figured out it's time to cut their losses, or they're going to wind up a party of 33% of the electorate -- 33% who will walk through fire for them, yes, but which also can't get elected to any office outside of a blood red state.

Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, criticized Trump on Twitter Tuesday night.

"There's no moral equivalency between racists & Americans standing up to defy hate & bigotry. The President of the United States should say so," McCain said in a tweet.

That's EXACTLY it, right there.

 

[Drew S.]

But that's not what Trump is saying. Trump is saying that there is an equivalent distribution of good and bad people in the two sets white supremacists and people opposed to white supremacists.

Stop defending this guy. Stop giving him cover. This is the American moral crisis-- it's here, right now. I know that cutting him off and denouncing him may seem like a short term political loss for conservative philosophy, but (1) this is the central fight for the American soul, going back 250 years -- it's time to pick a side, and (2) from a pragmatic point of view, if you don't want your long term policy aims to go down forever entangled with this guy and his virulent hatred you have to actively disentangle them. Right now you're lying down with that dog, and you're going to get up with fleas you may never get rid of.

Even the GOP who for decades has been winking at this to sop up those votes has all but given up now and is "shocked, shocked" that there's racism going on here. Even those cynical basturds have figured out it's time to cut their losses, or they're going to wind up a party of 33% of the electorate -- 33% who will walk through fire for them, yes, but which also can't get elected to any office outside of a blood red state.



That's EXACTLY it, right there.

Where did he comment on how many of each group there were? If there were 1,000 'Nazi's' and 50 'alt-left' people causing trouble, the 50 alt-left aren't excused just because there were fewer of them.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

IIRC 30 some odd signers of the Declaration of Independence were slave owners.

IIRC at the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg, the survivors marched across the field and shook hands with each other.

What about the Nazis?

We read the writings of Nazi generals and admirals, some who served in the new West German armed forces. They served an evil government, yet we didn't shoot/hang them all. Some were respected lecturers after the war in this country.

Our German scientists were better than Russia's German scientists and we got to the moon first.

We hate the Nazis but like the Germans? Why can't we decry the Rebellion and honor the participants?

Where are the memorials to the Nazis here in the US? In Germany?

Where are there even statues to German soldiers and scientists here in the US? Maybe there's some of Einstein, but who else?

We read the writings of Confederate soldiers and generals too. But what have they really done to deserve any honor, other than to take up arms in a rebellion against their country?

 

[JF_Gophers]

It was on my list of great new places to live. Now, I wouldn't move there if you paid me.

More of us need to live here to fix the stupid. Dems need to spread out a bit. Not just congregate in 4-5 states.

Plus, this area is great for jobs and development. I've been happy with my move.

 

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

More of us need to live here to fix the stupid. Dems need to spread out a bit. Not just congregate in 4-5 states.

Plus, this area is great for jobs and development. I've been happy with my move.

We need TX and NC, both of which have industries attracting a lot of highly educated blue staters. Once we take those it's game over for the knucks.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

More of us need to live here to fix the stupid. Dems need to spread out a bit. Not just congregate in 4-5 states.

Plus, this area is great for jobs and development. I've been happy with my move.

That ship has sailed for me. I'm old enough now that I'm thinking about retirement. Yes, I still have about 20 years before that but that's close enough to start thinking about it and what I'm going to do. Would I like a grand career change? Yeah. Haven't figured out if I'm strong enough or gutsy enough to do it. Pretty conservative when it comes to my income and job security.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

One weird wrinkle to the Stars And Bars (as we know current flag): to many, it is NOT a symbol of slavery/Confederacy. It's simply a symbol of southern life: laid back, rural, aw shucks farmer wisdom life. Think: Lynyrd Skynyrd, Dukes Of Hazzard.

Now, who's saying this?

It couldn't be white southerners who refuse to let go of the Civil War, is it? Now that's just odd. Can't imagine why they'd be saying that.

The swastika wasn't always the symbol of Nazi Germany, either. That it bears the symbolism it has today, and is seen as a hateful and racist emblem, is solely due to their co-option of it.

For the Hindus and Buddhists in India and other Asian countries, the swastika was an important symbol for many thousands of years and, to this day, the symbol can still be seen in abundance - on temples, buses, taxis, and on the cover of books. It was also used in Ancient Greece and can be found in the remains of the ancient city of Troy, which existed 4,000 years ago. The ancient Druids and the Celts also used the symbol, reflected in many artefacts that have been discovered. It was used by Nordic tribes and even early Christians used the Swastika as one of their symbols, including the Teutonic Knights, a German medieval military order, which became a purely religious Catholic Order.

Ditto the confederate flag.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

The swastika wasn't always the symbol of Nazi Germany, either. That it bears the symbolism it has today, and is seen as a hateful and racist emblem, is solely due to their co-option of it.

Hell, there were U.S. Soldiers in World War I that wore the Swastika on their chest and on their plane while fighting Germany.

 

[unofan]

The antis who are/were peaceful protesters are innocents. The antis with clubs or who wanted to start a violent confrontation are not.

The civil rights movement won because they never attacked when hit with fire hoses and dogs and, yes, when some were murdered. Dr. King realized Gahndi won while Jeff Davis lost.

Malcolm X frowns on your shenanigans.

And let's not forget that there was an entire farking war fought over the issue of slavery. So now you're saying the Union was just as bad as the Confederacy?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Roy Moore got the most votes in Alabama last night. The South continues it's idiocy.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Not really he just had better subordinates. Stonewall Jackson was the brains behind the Army of Northern Virginia which is why they went to crap after they died. Jackson never lets Lee order Pickett's March on Day 3 of Gettysburg.

And Brent, Washington being a traitor against Britain is immaterial. WE DONT LIVE IN BRITAIN!! That parallel is stupid when racists use it and you are smarter than that. The second the Revolutionary War was over he was a local hero. The second the South lost Lee was a traitor. That is how it works. If America loses Washington is hanged. If the South wins Lee probably becomes President of the Free State of Virginia. That didnt happen so it doesnt matter.

Yeah. How many statues of George Washington in Trafalger Square?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

However, we do have to consider that he likely defined "men" as white, Christian, property-owning, males over the age of 25.

Actually, no, Jefferson did not identify people as such. He argued against slavery during the Constitutional Conventions, calling the South's insistence on maintaining the practice a sign of hypocrisy in regards to the documents and declared principles upon which they were founding the nation. He, along with others like Benjamin Franklin (another slave owner who later freed his slaves) only relented to the bigots after long negotiations. Those men we hold forth as being at the center of our Revolution were all in favor of ending slavery even though taking that position would have a negative impact on their personal fortunes.

Ultimately, most of the slave-owning Founding Fathers central to the movement, though not all, released their slaves upon their deaths. A few argued that it would do the country's uneasy political situation no favors if they were to free their slaves while they were still active, worried that such an action would cause a division with their southern compatriots.

 

[aparch]

Where are the memorials to the Nazis here in the US? In Germany?

Blue Plains neighborhood of Washington, DC.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

IMHO, you are mistaking history, and the forgiveness of time to honoring people who were losers.

Some like to think the statues represent history. And in some aspects they do. But the history could probably be better shown in a simple marker, perhaps with some of the names of the dead.

Instead, the statues are there to make us think that the confederate generals were some kind of hero. They are not. They were just part of a losing battle.

I've seen Lee's efforts washed over here and on other boards- after the war he was some kind of gentleman, or that he was just fighting for Virginia, bla bla bla.

Which is to suggest that he fought for the wrong side in the war, as he was against slavery.

It would be interesting to ask the thousands of dead confederate soldiers he commanded into death about that line of thinking. Or the thousands of Union soldiers that died due to his command the same thing.

The man was a key part in 300,000 people killed in the Civil war. Had he fought for the north, perhaps less would have died, and the separation between the north and south would not be nearly has harsh, as the war would have ended a lot sooner.

But he didn't. He fought for the side that every single goal pointed to keeping slavery to make people rich. Killed a lot of people. And lost. How does that make him a hero or a gentleman?

When Lee's army invaded the North, they captured free blacks on the way to/from Gettysburg and took them back to VA to be sold into slavery. He also only freed the slaves at Arlington House because he was obligated to abide by the terms of his father-in-law's will.

Says all we need to know about his positions on the issue.

 

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

You are a complete and utter moron if you think I'm defending a racist symbol.

No, you're just defending a symbol that stands for "laid-back, good ole boy style of living". Like Skynrd, and Dukes of Hazard.

 

[Spartanforlife4]

Malcolm X frowns on your shenanigans.

And let's not forget that there was an entire farking war fought over the issue of slavery. So now you're saying the Union was just as bad as the Confederacy?

"Many sides"

 

[joecct]

Where are the memorials to the Nazis here in the US? In Germany?

Where are there even statues to German soldiers and scientists here in the US? Maybe there's some of Einstein, but who else?

We read the writings of Confederate soldiers and generals too. But what have they really done to deserve any honor, other than to take up arms in a rebellion against their country?

There's a whole bunch of Von Braun stuff. I think Achtung! Panzer is still read by armor officers. If you want to read the writings of a demented mind, Mein Kampf is still sold in bookstores (who gets the royalties?).

Outside of WvB, I don't know of any memorials, but we can read a lot of stuff by members of Nazi Germany. Do you want to ban/burn offensive books because they offer views offensive to you?