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POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

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Handyman said:
Nice try...the Germans denounced the Nazis hell made the flag illegal. The South still embraces the Confederacy. Until they do we shouldnt embrace them. The South Shall Not Rise Again.

Care to try again without sounding completely lost?
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What about Wernher Von Braun? Should Huntsville rename the building? How many civilians did he kill via the V2?

And I quote again what Lincoln said at his 2nd inauguration, "...With Malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds..."

If Lincoln was willing to forgive, why can't we?
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

joecct said:
If Lincoln was willing to forgive, why can't we?
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Lincoln was a better man than me, I guess.

Once the Earth is rid of scum like Nazis, members of the KKK, adherents of the alt-right, and well, I guess a good portion of the people who voted for trump, I might find the time to forgive some of them. Until then, they deserve our scorn, our contempt and quite a few of them deserve to beaten to a pulp. But none have earned or deserve our forgiveness unless and until they renounce their former beliefs and show by their actions they have turned over a new leaf.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

WeAreNDHockey said:
Lincoln was a better man than me, I guess.

Once the Earth is rid of scum like Nazis, members of the KKK, adherents of the alt-right, and well, I guess a good portion of the people who voted for trump, I might find the time to forgive some of them. Until then, they deserve our scorn, our contempt and quite a few of them deserve to beaten to a pulp. But none have earned or deserve our forgiveness unless and until they renounce their former beliefs and show by their actions they have turned over a new leaf.
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Depending on circumstances.....if they have taken action on their beliefs to harm others physically or incited others to take action on those beliefs, then yes. Otherwise, no. Voting, basic speech/protests...nope. They have a right to express their beliefs, and we have a right to denounce them.
 
WeAreNDHockey said:
Lincoln was a better man than me, I guess.

Once the Earth is rid of scum like Nazis, members of the KKK, adherents of the alt-right, and well, I guess a good portion of the people who voted for trump, I might find the time to forgive some of them. Until then, they deserve our scorn, our contempt and quite a few of them deserve to beaten to a pulp. But none have earned or deserve our forgiveness unless and until they renounce their former beliefs and show by their actions they have turned over a new leaf.
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Please don't rule out Antifa. There just as big idiots as the neos.

The current crop of idiots are idiots and deserve our scorn and ridicule. But historical figures?

Oh, found out there are 3 Lenin statues in the USA (NYC, LA, Seattle). Tear them down?
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

joecct said:
Please don't rule out Antifa. There just as big idiots as the neos.

The current idiots are idiots and deserve our scorn and ridicule. But historical figures?

Oh, found out there are 3 Lenin statues in the USA (NYC, LA, Seattle). Tear them down?
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Not sure why we'd tear down Lenin. Stalin, definitely.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Can we get rid of Mount Rushmore? Teddy Roosevelt wasn't fond of those darned Indians. This is the precedent we are setting as a nation. Just sayin'.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Spartanforlife4 said:
Did Teddy fight for a traitorous state built upon an economy of slavery?
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He just eliminated the lesser people, and believed in it:

Roosevelt: 'I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are'

So back to my point, if slavery/racism is a major point in these monuments...we better start cleaning house. Can't pick and choose the "good" ones.

And Washington fought for the same. But he was a great general and great president. ;)
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Brenthoven said:
He just eliminated the lesser people, and believed in it:

Roosevelt: 'I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are'

So back to my point, if slavery/racism is a major point in these monuments...we better start cleaning house. Can't pick and choose the "good" ones.

And Washington fought for the same. But he was a great general and great president. ;)
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You don't need to keep repeating your argument. It's been understood and rejected.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Washington: was a traitor against Britain. Slave owner. Pretty darn good general.
RE Lee: was a traitor against USA. Slave owner. Not as good of a general.

Yeah, false equivalency.

I am not FOR keeping the monuments. I am thinking this is a dangerous precedent for future events.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Brenthoven said:
Washington: was a traitor against Britain. Slave owner. Pretty darn good general.
RE Lee: was a traitor against USA. Slave owner. Not as good of a general.

Yeah, false equivalency.
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I'll say. Lee was a far better field general than Washington.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

joecct said:
What about Wernher Von Braun? Should Huntsville rename the building? How many civilians did he kill via the V2?

And I quote again what Lincoln said at his 2nd inauguration, "...With Malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds..."

If Lincoln was willing to forgive, why can't we?
Click to expand...

Maybe when the South isnt still a haven for racists I will consider it. You can compare them to Nazi Germany all you want Germany atoned the South still hasnt. In fact many embrace still it. Lincoln forgave because he had to let them back in and let the country heal. We have seen how that has screwed us over since he made that choice. If he had lived he would have condemned the South for how they acted for 100 years after the War. (and farther...it isnt like they have harmony now)

And Brent, please stop with that fallacy. First of all the flag that is used by Skynard and Dukes is not the Stars and Bars. This is the Stars and Bars and is almost never associated with racism. The flag that symbolizes racism is the Beauregard Flag or the Southern Cross and it most certainly is a symbol of all the negative aspects of the South.

Second, the Southern Culture is derived from the Confederacy no matter how much people pretend it isnt. The Dukes car is called the General Lee for a reason. Southern attitude is based on the stereotype of the South that dates back to when exactly...I know there is this myth that the Southern Pride is /= to embracing the Confederacy but literally every piece of observable evidence goes against it. Whether it is the use of "The Rebel Yell", chants like "The South Shall Rise Again" or using the battle flag of the Confederacy it screams it. That they refuse to admit it out of fear of being called out for it doesnt change that fact. They may not be racist, but they definitely identify with the idea of the Southern Confederacy.
 
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Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Kepler said:
I'll say. Lee was a far better field general than Washington.
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Washington's top 5 moves as a field general were basically all retreats. His strength was always keeping the army around to fight another day, and not much on battlefield tactics.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Brenthoven said:
Can we get rid of Mount Rushmore? Teddy Roosevelt wasn't fond of those darned Indians. This is the precedent we are setting as a nation. Just sayin'.
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Teddy didnt rebel against the country and become Benedict Arnold. Good lord dude I know you are trying to make a point but you need to brush up on history if you are going to do it because that was pathetically off point.

The problem isnt that Lee hated Black people...it is that he committed treason against the United States in the name of his racism. You ever been to Arlington Cemetery? If not go there and go to his house and read about it sometime. This myth he was a moral man who hated slavery and only fought for the South because of Virginia is a crock.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

I know about the Stars and Bars, Handy. Hence my qualification "as we know it," as in current form. So don't lecture me on that.

And secondly, the biggest shouting I hear about the southern monuments is because of racism/slaves. See also: re-naming Lake Calhoun. I just want consistency at that point.
 
Re: POTUS 45.16 - If Never Forgotten, One Would ALWAYS Remember Something.

Kepler said:
I'll say. Lee was a far better field general than Washington.
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Not really he just had better subordinates. Stonewall Jackson was the brains behind the Army of Northern Virginia which is why they went to crap after they died. Jackson never lets Lee order Pickett's March on Day 3 of Gettysburg.

And Brent, Washington being a traitor against Britain is immaterial. WE DONT LIVE IN BRITAIN!! That parallel is stupid when racists use it and you are smarter than that. The second the Revolutionary War was over he was a local hero. The second the South lost Lee was a traitor. That is how it works. If America loses Washington is hanged. If the South wins Lee probably becomes President of the Free State of Virginia. That didnt happen so it doesnt matter.
 
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