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Penn State Womens Hockey

Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

With 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 1 goalie already set, and only two goalie slots left, I don't see the roster getting any bigger than it is after those two goalies are named. I don't know why the school is sitting on the women's roster, but they haven't even officially acknowledged the women's 2012-13 schedule yet, and it's been out for ten days now. The "official" school sports website has had the men's 2012-13 roster up for a while now, and announced the men's 2012-13 schedule with glee as soon as it was finalized - they haven't said a word about the women's 2012-13 schedule that's already ten days old.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

With 13 forwards, 8 defensemen, and 1 goalie already set, and only two goalie slots left, I don't see the roster getting any bigger than it is after those two goalies are named. I don't know why the school is sitting on the women's roster, but they haven't even officially acknowledged the women's 2012-13 schedule yet, and it's been out for ten days now. The "official" school sports website has had the men's 2012-13 roster up for a while now, and announced the men's 2012-13 schedule with glee as soon as it was finalized - they haven't said a word about the women's 2012-13 schedule that's already ten days old.

Welcome to the inequity of women's sports.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Welcome to the inequity of women's sports.

New topic?!! Which college program has the most EQUITABLE split between men's and women's hockey and then men's and women's sports in general.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Welcome to the inequity of women's sports.
Exactly. With no offense meant whatsover to PSWH, the men's and women's teams are not equals in the eyes of the administration. You can even go back to the original donation if you want...

University Park, Pa.- Penn State President Graham Spanier announced to the Board of Trustees today (Sept. 17) the largest private gift in the University's history -- $88 million from Terrence M. and Kim Pegula to fund a state-of-the-art, multi-purpose arena and help to establish an NCAA Division I men's hockey program.

The gift paves the way for the creation of a Division I women's ice hockey program and enhanced figure skating opportunities.

Source: Official university release

Sounds a lot like he was donating for the arena and the men's program, and that the women's program just got to go along for the ride thanks to Title IX (for what it's worth, I've heard that the original plan during the preliminary discussions didn't even involve a women's program until a few years in, but they were threatened with a lawsuit). While the donation was upped to $102 million that's easily explained by the fact that the arena, originally reported at $75 million, now costs $89 million. Pegula was basically covering overruns on his arena. Most of the extra fundraising has been to endow the women's scholarships, and at last check they had something like $4 million of the $10 million they were seeking towards that.

I believe that the Brandwene hire was made as much for his loyalty to administration (he played for assistant AD Battista on the men's club team for those who don't know) as for his ability to build a top women's program. They probably could've poached someone with a proven track record in the women's NCAA game, but instead landed a guy with something like two years coaching prep as his entire women's hockey experience. IMO, they didn't want someone who run to them complaining about every inequality or about not making as much as Gadowsky.

Then of course, you have sports information, which more or less ignored the women's club team last season while grabbing on to the men's club team at every opportunity. I'm sure PSWH remembers how we had to wait for tweets from parents of players to get any sort of updates on games. Meanwhile, if PSU was playing a DIII school with 5,000 enrollment, they'd very often have live stats and (on two occasions, anyway) video. Hopefully that improves with NCAA status, but I still wouldn't count on equality there. And to be fair, they're just responding to demand. I'm sure if you looked at the coverage of football vs. men's cross country on GoPSUSports.com you'd find a pretty substantial difference there too.

* I realize a lot of what I just said is rumor/speculation, so please take it accordingly, I certainly do.
 
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Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Exactly. With no offense meant whatsover to PSWH, the men's and women's teams are not equals in the eyes of the administration. You can even go back to the original donation if you want...



Source: Official university release

Sounds a lot like he was donating for the arena and the men's program, and that the women's program just got to go along for the ride thanks to Title IX (for what it's worth, I've heard that the original plan during the preliminary discussions didn't even involve a women's program until a few years in, but they were threatened with a lawsuit). While the donation was upped to $102 million that's easily explained by the fact that the arena, originally reported at $75 million, now costs $89 million. Pegula was basically covering overruns on his arena. Most of the extra fundraising has been to endow the women's scholarships, and at last check they had something like $4 million of the $10 million they were seeking towards that.

I believe that the Brandwene hire was made as much for his loyalty to administration (he played for assistant AD Battista on the men's club team for those who don't know) as for his ability to build a top women's program. They probably could've poached someone with a proven track record in the women's NCAA game, but instead landed a guy with something like two years coaching prep as his entire women's hockey experience. IMO, they didn't want someone who run to them complaining about every inequality or about not making as much as Gadowsky.

I've heard the hire was driven largely by the need to raise funds and his connections to the PSU community would greatly facilitate that out of the gate.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Exactly. With no offense meant whatsover to PSWH, the men's and women's teams are not equals in the eyes of the administration. You can even go back to the original donation if you want...
Source: Official university release

I brought that up before and got hammered. So Title IX not so much in the spirit of it, just kinda....? Looks like it will take even longer for any other B1G joke team to start things up.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

I believe that the Brandwene hire was made as much for his loyalty to administration (he played for assistant AD Battista on the men's club team for those who don't know) as for his ability to build a top women's program. They probably could've poached someone with a proven track record in the women's NCAA game, but instead landed a guy with something like two years coaching prep as his entire women's hockey experience. IMO, they didn't want someone who run to them complaining about every inequality or about not making as much as Gadowsky.

In fairness to Brandwene, he does have 18 years of coaching experience, although certainly not at the NCAA D-1 level. Whether men or women (or boys and girls), he's coached a lot of hockey, to include university teams (Delaware, Michigan-Dearborn, and West Virginia), and was a Team USA assistant coach for the 2003 World University Games, to go along with his prep school and high school coaching. Having also been the ACHA president from 1997-2004, he knows the admin side, too. I sure hope he wasn't hired for any sense of loyalty to the Penn State administration, even if his Penn State pedigree got his foot in the door. He's been admin himself, at the ACHA, so I wouldn't think he sees Penn State admin as anything all too lofty. Having played for Battista doesn't hurt, but that was 20 years ago.

I sure do remember last season, and having to hope that a hockey parent would be at an away game with a way to Twitter game updates. Then we'd have to wait for days sometimes just to see an official box score from the game. GoPSUsports was usually trumped by the school newspaper with any coverage of women's games, and maybe it had something to do with the women's team captain working at the school paper (I only say that half-jokingly). Take nothing away from the men's team - they've earned every bit of coverage they get, and they have an impressive history. But if you also have a women's team, why be so blatant in not covering them, too? You can't generate demand for a program if you never give them any media exposure. I hope that changes when D-1 starts for both programs, but I'm realistic about it, too. I'm already getting a sense of how the official school site is going to handle the women's team (same as always), but that's why there's a PennStateWomensHockey.com.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

What if after every game one sent emails to the sports info dept asking for box-scores etc. If enough of us do that maybe they will realize it would be easier to post immediately. The coach seems to have enough experience that he should be able to push for equity .
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

What if after every game one sent emails to the sports info dept asking for box-scores etc. If enough of us do that maybe they will realize it would be easier to post immediately. The coach seems to have enough experience that he should be able to push for equity .

You won't need to. Every program has a SID at home games. They generate the game recap and handle the stats during the game. Those stats are then forwarded to the league office, the away team's SID, as well as the league's web master who updates the league web site. It is a considerable amount of work, and doesn't happen instantaneously...remember there are other programs in the league and updating the web site for all the teams takes time. Also, with many programs the SID doesn't travel to away games as he/she is handling the home game for another sport. It can take time for that person to do whatever they have to do to update the program's web site if they have their hands full at another game.
 
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Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

In fairness to Brandwene, he does have 18 years of coaching experience, although certainly not at the NCAA D-1 level. Whether men or women (or boys and girls), he's coached a lot of hockey, to include university teams (Delaware, Michigan-Dearborn, and West Virginia), and was a Team USA assistant coach for the 2003 World University Games, to go along with his prep school and high school coaching. Having also been the ACHA president from 1997-2004, he knows the admin side, too. I sure hope he wasn't hired for any sense of loyalty to the Penn State administration, even if his Penn State pedigree got his foot in the door. He's been admin himself, at the ACHA, so I wouldn't think he sees Penn State admin as anything all too lofty. Having played for Battista doesn't hurt, but that was 20 years ago.

I sure do remember last season, and having to hope that a hockey parent would be at an away game with a way to Twitter game updates. Then we'd have to wait for days sometimes just to see an official box score from the game. GoPSUsports was usually trumped by the school newspaper with any coverage of women's games, and maybe it had something to do with the women's team captain working at the school paper (I only say that half-jokingly). Take nothing away from the men's team - they've earned every bit of coverage they get, and they have an impressive history. But if you also have a women's team, why be so blatant in not covering them, too? You can't generate demand for a program if you never give them any media exposure. I hope that changes when D-1 starts for both programs, but I'm realistic about it, too. I'm already getting a sense of how the official school site is going to handle the women's team (same as always), but that's why there's a PennStateWomensHockey.com.
Thanks for posting that - I wasn't trying to say that Brandwene was a bad coach or unworthy of the job (I happen to like him a lot), but it was definitely a hire that made a lot of people scratch their heads after hearing (for example) that PSU was interested in Mike Sisti. He has a nice track record of rebuilding down and out ACHA programs. Delaware just won the national championship to cap off a decade of unprecedented success that started with his tenure. He's filled a lot of different types of roles well, which is good preparation for the multifaceted position of DI coach.

Still, I wouldn't downplay the Battista-Brandwene connection. The two have remained close...in my day, PSU would schedule alumni weekend around Delaware's visit so that Brandwene (and John O'Connor, his assistant and former PSU teammate) would be in town. I'm not saying that makes Brandwene a hand puppet or anything like that, but I'm sure there's a certain vision for the men's and women's programs together that requires the head coach's buy-in (remember, they plan on having the two programs together break even, which could very well result in the women's getting penny-pinched down the line, even with all those endowed scholarships), and you're more likely to get that from Brandwene than from a Shannon Miller.

The hard reality is that the best way to a successful women's program is to have a successful men's program. The top-drawing CHA team last year, Mercyhurst, pulled 690 fans per game. The others were 253 (Niagara, RIP), 244 (Syracuse), 202 (Robert Morris) and 156 (Lindenwood). RIT drew 670 in DIII. They have the America One deal, whatever that pays out. But basically, there's a glass ceiling on what the women's program can pull in, fill in your view on women's sports in our society to complete that thought. The men's team on the other hand, could sell out the PIA (6,000) if it's popular and well-marketed or it could draw 3,000 per game if it isn't. If you're a decision maker in the athletic department, you're doing right by both programs to try and influence a swing of a couple thousand people buying more expensive tickets to men's games versus dumping everything you have into trying to go from your baseline of ~500 to chase a four-figure average, something only four programs pulled off last year.

I'll even take it a step further. If you look at the fundraising stuff that goes out, none of it says "hey, support the women's program!" It'll say something like "The monies raised through the [Ice Campaign] will create an endowment for Ice Hockey." That's the actual language from a brochure I have for naming opportunities on lockers in the PIA. It's a little harsh to say it this way, but they're basically trying to trick people into supporting the women's program, if in fact we're right about the destination of the Pegula money.

None of that is meant to make excuses for how the team was covered last year. There was no excuse for that. All 31 teams deserve baseline coverage, and after taking down the Lady Icers' website, the athletic department didn't even provide that. Also, I could be remembering it wrong, but even the Collegian stopped covering the team after December-ish, other than the Sacred Heart win. Lucky for them Ms. Chroman was too busy with her honors thesis to walk over to the sports department and yell!

But like you said, that's why you're here! If you feel like the team deserves more, go out and give it to them, right? Keep up the great work!
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Thanks for posting that - I wasn't trying to say that Brandwene was a bad coach or unworthy of the job (I happen to like him a lot), but it was definitely a hire that made a lot of people scratch their heads after hearing (for example) that PSU was interested in Mike Sisti. He has a nice track record of rebuilding down and out ACHA programs. Delaware just won the national championship to cap off a decade of unprecedented success that started with his tenure. He's filled a lot of different types of roles well, which is good preparation for the multifaceted position of DI coach.

Still, I wouldn't downplay the Battista-Brandwene connection. The two have remained close...in my day, PSU would schedule alumni weekend around Delaware's visit so that Brandwene (and John O'Connor, his assistant and former PSU teammate) would be in town. I'm not saying that makes Brandwene a hand puppet or anything like that, but I'm sure there's a certain vision for the men's and women's programs together that requires the head coach's buy-in (remember, they plan on having the two programs together break even, which could very well result in the women's getting penny-pinched down the line, even with all those endowed scholarships), and you're more likely to get that from Brandwene than from a Shannon Miller.

The hard reality is that the best way to a successful women's program is to have a successful men's program. The top-drawing CHA team last year, Mercyhurst, pulled 690 fans per game. The others were 253 (Niagara, RIP), 244 (Syracuse), 202 (Robert Morris) and 156 (Lindenwood). RIT drew 670 in DIII. They have the America One deal, whatever that pays out. But basically, there's a glass ceiling on what the women's program can pull in, fill in your view on women's sports in our society to complete that thought. The men's team on the other hand, could sell out the PIA (6,000) if it's popular and well-marketed or it could draw 3,000 per game if it isn't. If you're a decision maker in the athletic department, you're doing right by both programs to try and influence a swing of a couple thousand people buying more expensive tickets to men's games versus dumping everything you have into trying to go from your baseline of ~500 to chase a four-figure average, something only four programs pulled off last year.

I'll even take it a step further. If you look at the fundraising stuff that goes out, none of it says "hey, support the women's program!" It'll say something like "The monies raised through the [Ice Campaign] will create an endowment for Ice Hockey." That's the actual language from a brochure I have for naming opportunities on lockers in the PIA. It's a little harsh to say it this way, but they're basically trying to trick people into supporting the women's program, if in fact we're right about the destination of the Pegula money.

None of that is meant to make excuses for how the team was covered last year. There was no excuse for that. All 31 teams deserve baseline coverage, and after taking down the Lady Icers' website, the athletic department didn't even provide that. Also, I could be remembering it wrong, but even the Collegian stopped covering the team after December-ish, other than the Sacred Heart win. Lucky for them Ms. Chroman was too busy with her honors thesis to walk over to the sports department and yell!

But like you said, that's why you're here! If you feel like the team deserves more, go out and give it to them, right? Keep up the great work!

I have a meeting with Brandwene tomorrow afternoon, and I'll be interested in learning whether or not he has any ideas for generating more interest and enthusiasm from fans (and potential fans) than what the school is going to put out. You (and Brandwene) know a million times more than me how things work behind the scenes, so I'm going in there to learn a little more. Being retired, I have nothing but time (maybe too much time), a camera, and a lot of enthusiasm for women's D-1 hockey, and that's what I'm bringing to the sit-down tomorrow. It may be a 30-second meeting, or it may get interesting....we'll see.

With the women's program getting their own SID sometime before the season starts, that should improve on last season's coverage, to say the least. I'm sure the NCAA is a lot more strict about timely submissions from the game scorers than the ACHA was last year, so that will be a big difference.

I definitely do feel that the women's team deserves more than they got last season, but I do expect it to get better this season, if for no other reason than that now it's a money thing. A school can't sit back and not promote a women's team and then wonder why it doesn't bring anyone to the rink to watch it (and spend money watching it). Maybe that's a simplistic view from a lack of knowledge of the behind-the-scenes workings, but it seems like common sense.
 
I was looking for game results and stats on Penn States womens program last season and agree they should do much better to support fan development of the women's program.

Lindenwood did not have a stellar first season, but their game coverage was first rate. Each week saw a set of game notes for the upcoming weekends play and there was a game recap following virtually every game. Box scores typically went up within an hour or two following completion of the game.

Apprarently all CHA games wil be available this season on the Internet. With that capability, I cannot see why a school of Penn States stature cannot create a top rate site with writing coverage on every game, be it from staff or student journalists.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

There will be a D1 transfer goalie coming from Hockey East. It is not one that has been discussed yet, right school wrong goalie.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

You are so right! It will be a nice surprise. One of the better stats in the nation last year despite a less than great team. Won defensive player of the week for College Hockey America. Huge addition to the Nittany Lions!

Go Lions Go
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

After meeting with Coach Brandwene yesterday and hearing what he had to say about coverage of the women's upcoming season, it won't be anything like the (lack of) coverage they got last season. Game summaries, stats and scores, video game coverage, and all that good stuff will be there, and be on time, too. Brandwene's enthusiasm is sky high, and it sounds like a lot of good stuff will be rolling out when the season starts. He rolled my frustration up into a little ball and kicked it out the door, that's for sure.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

After meeting with Coach Brandwene yesterday and hearing what he had to say about coverage of the women's upcoming season, it won't be anything like the (lack of) coverage they got last season. Game summaries, stats and scores, video game coverage, and all that good stuff will be there, and be on time, too. Brandwene's enthusiasm is sky high, and it sounds like a lot of good stuff will be rolling out when the season starts. He rolled my frustration up into a little ball and kicked it out the door, that's for sure.
Wouldn't that have been anticipated with the start-up of a D-I varsity program?
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Wouldn't that have been anticipated with the start-up of a D-I varsity program?

Not after the disparity in coverage between the men's and women's programs last year. Sure, anyone would expect a little bump in lip service for the women's team with the move to D-1, but it sounds like it will be a lot more in line with how they present the men's team. Not 100% equal, I'm sure, but 100% improvement over last year.
 
Re: Penn State Womens Hockey

Not after the disparity in coverage between the men's and women's programs last year. Sure, anyone would expect a little bump in lip service for the women's team with the move to D-1, but it sounds like it will be a lot more in line with how they present the men's team. Not 100% equal, I'm sure, but 100% improvement over last year.
I would have anticipated Penn St. doing it better than other start-ups.
 
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