Patty Kazmaier 2014

[mnpokecheck]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Why the argument over which Gopher will win the Kaz? Im sure none of the Gophers players are focused on the Patty.

Because it's late February and this is the PK thread, and that is what fans do. Where should it be discussed?

 

[RStarr]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

... just give it to the canadian girl already. *sigh*

 

[vicb]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

... just give it to the canadian girl already. *sigh*

Yes, Jamie Lee Rattray

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

... just give it to the canadian girl already. *sigh*

Which one? Amanda Leveille, Sarah Davis or Kelly Terry?!

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

...in games vs common opponents, it might be interesting to know that

Rigsby vs Mn St she allowed 2 goals in 3 games, Amanda allowed 1 goal in 4 games. Adv Amanda

Rigsby vs SCSU she allowed 1 goal in 1 game, Amanda allowed 5 goals in 4 games. Slight adv Rigsby

Rigsby vs OSU she allowed 5 goals in 4 games, Amanda allowed 5 goals in 4 games. A wash

Rigsby vs UND she allowed 1 goal in 2 games, Amanda allowed 6 goals in 4 games. Adv Rigsby

Rigsby vs UMD she allowed 3 goals in 4 games, Amanda allowed 3 goals in 4 games. A wash

Rigsby vs BSU she allowed 1 goal in 1 game, Amanda allowed 6 goals in 4 games. Slight Adv Rigsby

Rigsby vs UMn she allowed 11 goals in 4 games, Amanda allowed 3 goals in 4 games vs UW. Huge Adv Amanda



If you average the games vs common opponents out in a way that can easily be calculated, I come up with

Rigsby with 27 goals against in 22 games and
Amanda with 24 goals against in 22 games.

If you take out each players 4 worst games, the gap becomes even wider, Rigsby has 16 goals against in 18 games and Amanda has 12 goals against in 18 games.


Also of note is that Rigsby has only 5 shut outs in 21 games or less than 1/4th of her games, whereas Amanda has 12 shut outs in 33 games or over 1/3rd of her games.

Just updatd the stats after tonights games.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

The thing with Nora last year was she had to compete with Kessel and Bozek, her own teammates for the award, for without those 2 she would have won it.

This year, Amanda doesn't have Kessel or Bozek to compete with, and the scoring load for the team seems to be more spread out between a larger # of players, and everyone knew Raty was a world class goalie so she was expected to do well and some may have questioned whether she only looked at good as she did because of how good all of her teammates were. But a year later and most of the best players on the team being removed via graduation or being invited to the Olympics, I don't know how many people thought that the Gophers would only have 1 loss at this point in the season, and its possibly more clear that Amanda's more than partly responsible for that. She's already got 11 shut outs, with 2 games vs UMD and 2 games vs SCSU guaranteed to be on the schedule that give her the potential to have as many as 14 or 15 shut outs going into the Semis of the WCHA tourney, where she'll probably face UMD again, or an even weaker WCHA foe. What was Raty's NCAA record # of shut outs last year? 16? And she got how many of those before the Semis of the WCHA Conf Tourney?

My point is that Amanda could easily be seen as the biggest reason the Gopher's are the unanimous #1 team in the nation this year. No one forward or defender on the team sticks out the way Kessel or Bozek did last year. The gap between the #1 point scorer for the Gophers and the #10 point scorer for the Gophers on this years team is not as wide as it was last year. The #10 pt scorer for the Gophers this year is tied for 50th in the country.


So unless the selection committee doesn't like that she's only a Sophmore, my guess is that she should have as good a chance of winning as Nora had last year. IMHO

good grief, how are you related to her?

the reason the Gophers did so well this year is balance, balanced scoring, as you pointed out
10 of the top 17 scorers in the WCHA were Gophers, 8 of them forwards, that means all but one of the forwards were among the leading scorers

Leveille won't win (is she even nominated?)
but if she can't win, I don't know how any goalie could, here are her stats over the last two years:
GAA= .941
Save %=95.6
W-L-T=35-1-1
Shut outs=16
Games started=37
% of games started, shut out opponent= 43.2%
Power Play Goals=8 (!) that's less than one every 4.5 games

 

[YabaDabaDoo]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

All the player are very good that make the list, it's the politics that I don't like! There are individual players that never get a sniff that could be on the list but are not because they might not be on the winningest team or choose to be a program builder over an award winner? i would like when its all done for the selection body to answer why one was choose over another, what were the deciding factors? just my thoughts!

 

[mnpokecheck]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

All the player are very good that make the list, it's the politics that I don't like! There are individual players that never get a sniff that could be on the list but are not because they might not be on the winningest team or choose to be a program builder over an award winner? i would like when its all done for the selection body to answer why one was choose over another, what were the deciding factors? just my thoughts!

Only takes two coaches to nominate someone to get on the initial list. Is that unreasonable?

 

[gopher fan]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

good grief, how are you related to her?

Humorous. Had to admit same thoughts!

I would vote for Hannah Brandt. Top in points and makes all her team members better, regardless of what team she would play on. She was 2nd to Kessel in points last year. Many thought without Kessel she wouldn't be all that. But here she is at the top again. A goalie on the best team's stats would be different if played on a weaker team. Goalies on weaker teams may be just as strong- who knows- maybe stronger? There is no way for a fair comparison, so that makes it difficult.

One goalie that was recently on the Kaz list that was NOT from a top team was Jenni Bauer from Niagara, which I was very glad to see.

Hannah Brandt has the grades as well which I believe is also considered, albeit not as heavily, but it only adds. Very selfless player. I hope she gets a nod, or makes the top three at least...I agree many deserving that are not on top teams as well.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

In the Kaz race, bad grades hurt you, but conditional on having decent grades (say above 2.5) it doesn't matter much. Maybe near 4.0 grades helped Bauer in '06 and Bendus in '10, but the other basic stats favored them already.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

All the player are very good that make the list, it's the politics that I don't like! There are individual players that never get a sniff that could be on the list but are not because they might not be on the winningest team or choose to be a program builder over an award winner? i would like when its all done for the selection body to answer why one was choose over another, what were the deciding factors? just my thoughts!

I think Spooner was the best college player ever on a program that never made NCAAs and she still made the Kaz 10 twice. Not sure what more can be done.

There is a team element to the award's selection criteria. It's hard in practice to distinguish who makes their teammates better and who just has talented teammates to begin with. Also there is a clutch criterion. It's hard to prove you are clutch if your team is never close to the other top teams. So if you think team builders deserve more recognition, it's clear you have to blame the criteria much more than the selection body implementing them.

I think aside from early years, where UMD players lacked recognition, or the process suffered from winnowing the field too soon, nothing totally objectionable has happened given the criteria.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

good grief, how are you related to her?

Funny. But no, I am not related to her. Just have always been a fan of the underdog. The lineman in cfb who never gets a sniff at the Heisman, the goalies who only rarely get a sniff of the Hobey or Kaz, the PG who cares more about winning than padding his own scoring average, etc..


Combine that with being a diehard Gopher fan, and having too much free time on my hands during the cold winter months, and there you go.

Even so, if I had only one vote, I think that I'd have to vote for Brandt as well. If I had to do some sort of staggered vote, my top pick getting 3 points, my 2nd pick getting 2 and my 3rd getting 1, then I have to say it would be hard for me not to give both Brandt and Leveille a spot in my top 3 and I am not sure I know of a reason why I wouldn't give Amanda the 2 pts for being the 2nd best player in the country? As you pointed out with the stats you posted, she's a phenomenal player, as far as anyone can tell. How she did when going up against the #2 team in the nation says a lot. But like you said, she has so many good players in front of her, and sometimes she only faces a dozen or so shots, so its hard to say for sure?!

 

[ARM]

... I am not sure I know of a reason why I wouldn't give Amanda the 2 pts for being the 2nd best player in the country? ... How she did when going up against the #2 team in the nation says a lot. But like you said, she has so many good players in front of her, and sometimes she only faces a dozen or so shots, so its hard to say for sure?!

One point in Leveille's favor is that in spite of seeing so few shots, she still leads the country in save percentage among full-time goalies. Desbiens of Wisconsin has a better save percentage, but she's only played around a dozen games. It is tough for a goalie to only face 16 shots like Leveille did on Friday night over the course of 60 minutes, but still be ready to stop a couple of breakaways as she did. Just staying warm and mentally focused can be a challenge.

In addition to playing on a strong team, the biggest challenge for Leveille to overcome with Kaz voters is that this is her first season of playing full-time, so it takes a while to become a known quantity.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Its not always fair or constructive to compare a player with a player from a past team, but it just seems significant to me that Hannah Brandt's Freshman season stats are better than Amanda Kessel's, Natalie Darwitz's and Krissy Wendell's freshman stats, but even more surprising, is that her freshman stats are ALSO better than all 3 of those players Sophmore season stats. Now its altogether possible that she played in more games than Darwitz or Wendell, but not sure that makes up the difference.

HB's Fr stats - 82 pts
HB's So stats - 55 pts - so far
ttl 2 yr stats - 137 pts - so far

ND's Fr stats - 68 pts
ND's So stats - 64 pts
ttl 2 yr stats - 132 pts

KW's Fr stats - 55 pts
KW's So stats - 78 pts
ttl 2 yr stats - 133 pts

AK's Fr stats - 50 pts
AK's So stats - 80 pts
ttl 2 yr stats - 130 pts


Not sure how she'll do in the playoffs, but its likely Hannah will score fewer points this season than last, which is nothing but a testament to the increased depth on this team. Although she may rise up during the playoffs to shoulder more ice time and more of the scoring?

But as Gopher fans, lets all hope she has a 100 pt season as a Junior as Kessel, Darwitz and Wendell all did. And if Kessel comes back, she'll just rewrite the record books seeing as neither Darwitz or Wendell played their senior seasons and it will be fun to watch her and Hannah on the ice together again.

And since I breached the subject of Wendell and Darwitz not coming back for their Sr seasons, is there any possibility of Kessel not coming back next year? I've assumed she was coming back, but I guess you never know?

 

[ARM]

Now its altogether possible that she played in more games than Darwitz or Wendell, but not sure that makes up the difference.

Wendell missed several weeks of her freshman season due to injury, and Darwitz was out of several weeks of her sophomore year. I think it is fair to note that while Brandt's rookie season outshines the others, the others as sophomores are currently ahead of Hannah and the injury-shortened season of Darwitz is the only one she is likely to catch points wise. On the other hand, Brandt will have the mosts points in two seasons combined.

Although she may rise up during the playoffs to shoulder more ice time and more of the scoring?

I doubt that she gets much more ice time unless Minnesota falls way behind, needs more offense, and the decision is to made to create a couple of power lines. Otherwise, the team has been so successful because it has had three balanced lines, so why change now?

And since I breached the subject of Wendell and Darwitz not coming back for their Sr seasons, is there any possibility of Kessel not coming back next year? I've assumed she was coming back, but I guess you never know?

It was known prior to the Olympics that Wendell and Darwitz weren't coming back. The opinion seems to be that Kessel will return, although her health could be the biggest risk in that becoming reality.

 

[mnpokecheck]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

And since I breached the subject of Wendell and Darwitz not coming back for their Sr seasons, is there any possibility of Kessel not coming back next year? I've assumed she was coming back, but I guess you never know?

A lot of teams are hoping.......two losses in the WCHA was too much these past two years.........ain't gonna be any easier with Kessel returning.

 

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

It was known prior to the Olympics that Wendell and Darwitz weren't coming back. The opinion seems to be that Kessel will return, although her health could be the biggest risk in that becoming reality.

Well I thought I remembered Darwitz considering a return for her senior season? I think she already had her degree or was going to finish after the 1st semester or something like that, but considered playing her last year as a graduate student? Or am I mistaken? I know she decided against coming back eventually, but I just thought I remembered one of the two thinking about a return?



As for Kessel, I guess the one good thing about there not being a Women's Pro league out there is that we don't have to worry about anyone leaving early to go pro like we do on the mens side of the sport.

 

[D2D]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

As for Kessel, I guess the one good thing about there not being a Women's Pro league out there is that we don't have to worry about anyone leaving early to go pro like we do on the mens side of the sport.

And that's one of the things I really like about the women's game, at both the high school and college levels - you get to see all the best players, at each age level. In Minnesota high school boys there were over 40 high-end players who left their teams early to go play junior hockey last fall. And the Gophers men's team lost five players this past season to the pros...shoot even Amanda Kessel's brother played only one season with the Gophers before signing his first pro contract.

Incidentally, in case you didn't happen to see it, Phil was named the best forward at the conclusion of the men's play in Sochi.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Not sure how she'll do in the playoffs, but its likely Hannah will score fewer points this season than last, which is nothing but a testament to the increased depth on this team. Although she may rise up during the playoffs to shoulder more ice time and more of the scoring?

Sometimes scoring more points one season vs the other has to do with the linemates/chemistry of a line, rather than the depth of a team. I'm sure if you are on a line with let's say Kessel, chances are you end up with more points. This is known as the "Gretzky-Lemieux-Crosby" effect. Or maybe you can call it the Kessel effect. Look at the season JVR is having.

 

[vicb]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Putting on my Eastern Bias, Green and Gold Glasses my top 2 are Jamie Lee Rattray and Hanna Brandt with of coarse JLR #1.

Clarkson without Rattray is <<<<<<<<<<< Minny without Brandt.