Patty Kazmaier 2014

[mnpokecheck]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Putting on my Eastern Bias, Green and Gold Glasses my top 2 are Jamie Lee Rattray and Amanda Kessel with of coarse JLR #1.

Clarkson without Rattray is <<<<<<<<<<< Minny without Kessel.

Or this year Minny without Kessel(Olympics) >>>>>Clarkson with Rattray.


Did you mean Brandt?

 

[ARM]

Well I thought I remembered Darwitz considering a return for her senior season? I think she already had her degree or was going to finish after the 1st semester or something like that, but considered playing her last year as a graduate student? Or am I mistaken? I know she decided against coming back eventually, but I just thought I remembered one of the two thinking about a return?

It was known quite far in advance that Wendell would not be returning, but Darwitz announced that she was giving up her final year of eligibility before the Olympics. I think the timing of the decision was related to endorsement opportunities, and IIRC, there was also some money available to those who medaled from the USOC, but they couldn't accept that and retain NCAA eligibility.

 

[vicb]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Or this year Minny without Kessel(Olympics) >>>>>Clarkson with Rattray.


Did you mean Brandt?

I meant Brandt. OOPS. I have corrected. But your 1st statement is true.

 

[vicb]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

As I stated previously Rattray and Brandt to me are the front runners for the Kaz but you can probably take the top 10 scorers and make a case for any of them.
If you consider goalies, Leveille, Machmayer and Howe in that order would be my candidates.
My top 3 for the Kaz would be 1 Rattray, 2 Brandt and 3 Leveille.

As far as a comparison of Rattray and Brandt, someone is gonna have to help me somewhat for Brandt since I have not seen her play but I am basing my pick of her for the top 3 in the Kaz on her statistics from this year. As for Rattray, she is the do everything for Clarkson. Plays on the #1 Power Play, Plays on the #1 Penalty Kill, Plays on the #1 line and busts her tail every time she is on the ice. Never takes a shift off when I have watched her (mostly on the internet).

Looking at the stats comparing the two.

Goals Rattray 26, #2 in the country to Lefort of BU and Brandt 19, #12 in the country
Assists Rattray 29, tied for #5 in the country and Brandt 36, #1 in the country
Rattray had 13 games with no goals and Brandt 20 games
Rattray had 17 games with no assists and Brandt had 11 games
Rattray had 8 games with no points and Brandt had 7 games
In the 8 games where Rattray was held without a point, Clarkson was 4-3-1
In the 7 games where Brandt was held without a point, Minny was 5-1-1
Against common ECAC Opponents Colgate, Princeton and Yale:
Rattray had 7 goals 11 assists while Brandt had 5 goals 10 assists
Against common WCHA Opponent North Dakota:
Rattray had 2 goals in 2 games, Brandt had 1 goal and 5 assists in 4 games.

These two in my mind are pretty even no matter how you look at the stats. Not sure how each stack up in terms of school work and extra curricular activities besides hockey. As I stated previously, I vote for Rattray and in my mind she is as deserving as anyone out there this year with or without my east coast bias or green and gold glasses . You also would not hear me complaining if Brandt or Leveille won the Kaz.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

So if I had a vote, the stat I would look most carefully at is performance against elite opposition, and here I'd define that to be top 10, since there's a rough consensus across rankings who the top 10 are and a decent gap between 10 and 11. If you want to compile stats, compile stats for everyone against top 10 opponents -- that's where you'll see some differentiation.

I was really surprised to see how often Rattray and Brandt were shut down against the top teams. For example, Rattray never head a point against Harvard (was a bit better against Cornell, but still not great, and was still - for one day when she had lots of points) while Brandt had two points in four games. Saulnier at first glance has been more consistent and productive against the best teams. I just skimmed box scores of key games but if someone else wants to compile the stats and confirm, please do.

Leveille and Maschmayer in contrast have clearly elevate their play against the best teams. As far as I can tell, they're quite clearly more deserving than the forwards. Comparing the two, Maschmayer has the larger body of work per minute, and Harvard's just needed her more, so that's a plus for her. But a minus for Maschmayer is she's slipped up against some weaker foes, particularly the Northeastern Beanpot game which is unusually important for Harvard given the quality of competition. So I think it's close between those two, and I'd probably vote for whoever has the better conference tournament, though it has varied year-to-year whether voting is before or after the conference final weekend.

Am I missing something for why the majority thinks the award will go to forwards? Just because it went to Kessel last year instead of Raty, when Raty had a record-breaking year? The Kaz has often gone to the nation's top scorer or close to it, but usually that only happens when the top scorer is clearly productive against the best competition. Not so this season, and the chance for goalies is much better than usual.

 

[dave1381]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Also, one word on extracurriculars: like GPA, it's unlikely to be relevant in determining the outcome. Usually most everyone has done some community service, everyone lists a few items, and there's no obvious differentiation between the merits of various activities. Like GPA, it could be a negative if someone is really poor, but unlike GPA, no one is ever poor.

The one exception where community service does matter: if a Kaz candidate is a Hockey Humanitarian contender, but that rarely happens. I am sure it was crucial for Chanda Gunn making the top 3 in 2004. Gunn had a top 10 year, but a sophomore Krissy Wendell was clearly more deserving for top 3 based purely on the hockey criteria.

 

[TonyTheTiger20]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Or this year Minny without Kessel(Olympics) >>>>>Clarkson with Rattray.

This makes me laugh but also really sad.

 

[Eeyore]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Am I missing something for why the majority thinks the award will go to forwards? Just because it went to Kessel last year instead of Raty, when Raty had a record-breaking year? The Kaz has often gone to the nation's top scorer or close to it, but usually that only happens when the top scorer is clearly productive against the best competition. Not so this season, and the chance for goalies is much better than usual.

A lot of us think that a top forward makes more of a difference to a team than a top goalie does, no matter what conventional wisdom says. Minnesota lost Rӓty, who many people think is the best goalie in the world, and the number of goals allowed in WCHA play went up by exactly 2 this year (29 vs. 27). Meanwhile, the goals scored went down by 13. As a percentage the change is still greater on the goals scored side though it's closer. That's hardly definitive but it's at least suggestive. Much as I said last year that the difference between Rӓty and Leveille wasn't as great, I'd bet that the difference between Leveille and Sydney Peters isn't that great, either. (It probably would be if you dropped Peters in right now but that has more to do with her being rusty than a difference in actual talent level.) That said, I still think the wrong player won the Kazmeier last year; it should have been Megan Bozek.

Another thing in favor of Brandt is that she is one of the most defensively responsible forwards I've ever watched. I don't mean so much the backchecking in transition, which the whole team does ferociously, but within the defensive zone once the other team sets up. The number of times an opposing team has passed the puck and Brandt steps in to intercept it has been staggering. She reads plays extremely well and gets to the right place.

 

[vicb]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

......

Another thing in favor of Brandt is that she is one of the most defensively responsible forwards I've ever watched. I don't mean so much the backchecking in transition, which the whole team does ferociously, but within the defensive zone once the other team sets up. The number of times an opposing team has passed the puck and Brandt steps in to intercept it has been staggering. She reads plays extremely well and gets to the right place.

I could say the same thing about Rattray on the penalty kill.

 

[vicb]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

......
I was really surprised to see how often Rattray and Brandt were shut down against the top teams. For example, Rattray never head a point against Harvard (was a bit better against Cornell, but still not great, and was still - for one day when she had lots of points) while Brandt had two points in four games. Saulnier at first glance has been more consistent and productive against the best teams. I just skimmed box scores of key games but if someone else wants to compile the stats and confirm, please do.

......

Dave, I decided to take you up on your question. However, instead of just looking at the top 10 teams in the country, this would have meant very few games for some and many more games for others as I wanted to include the top 10 scorers for consideration. So I decided to do this, within each conference, if a team had a .500 or better record within the conference and out of conference, I included them in this statistic. Only one team failed this criteria, SLU in the ECAC. I put the cutoff at .500 so I could include Minny-Duluth as this would give 4 WCHA teams for consideration.

So the teams were
ECAC: Clarkson, Cornell, Harvard, Quinnipiac and Princeton
Hockey East: BC, BU, Northeastern and UVM
CHA: Mercyhurst, Robert Morris, RIT and Syracuse
WCHA: Minnesota, Wisconsin, North Dakota and Minn-Duluth

Here are the top 11 scorers in the country and how they faired against teams at .500 and above on their teams schedule sorted by total points.
<pre>
Player Team Gms G A Pts Pts/Gm
Sara Lefort BU 17 13 11 24 1.412
Louise Warren BU 17 13 9 22 1.294
Kelly Terry Minn 14 7 14 21 1.500
Hanna Brandt Minn 14 4 16 20 1.429
J Saulnier Cornell 15 10 9 19 1.267
J L Rattray Clark 16 8 11 19 1.188
C Bestland Mercy 16 4 14 18 1.125
Rachel Bona Minn 14 3 15 18 1.286
Sara Davis Minn 14 8 8 16 1.143
Erin Ambrose Clark 16 4 12 16 1.000
Kelly Babstock Quinn 12 5 10 15 1.250
</pre>

So everyone can now take your best shot at who should be in the top 3 based on this. And if we look at the top 11 based on how they did against teams with records under .500 you get.

<pre>
Player Team Gms G A Pts Pts/Gm
J L Rattray Clark 18 18 18 36 2.000
Hannah Brandt Minn 20 15 20 35 1.750
Rachael Bona Minn 20 17 17 34 1.700
C Bestland Mercy 17 16 16 32 1.882
Erin Ambrose Clark 18 9 23 32 1.778
Kelly Babstock Quinn 22 13 18 31 1.409
Sarah Davis Minn 20 10 18 28 1.400
Sarah Lefort BU 17 16 11 27 1.588
J Saulnier Cornell 14 13 14 27 1.929
Kelly Terry Minn 20 9 13 22 1.100
Louise Warren Minn 17 11 10 21 1.235
</pre>

 

[ARM]

She reads plays extremely well and gets to the right place.

That is Brandt's biggest gift, her hockey I.Q. So when people watch her play once or twice, they are likely to be left expecting more, but it usually takes more than one or two viewings to appreciate smarts. She always seems to know who is open, on her team or the opposition, and she instinctively knows how to get a puck through an opening that doesn't look to exist.

I think Eeyore is underestimating Leveille. IMO, she had the single most important game of any Gopher this year, in the 2-1 win over Wisconsin. If she doesn't single-handedly keep her team in it when everyone else was AWOL, who knows how the season would have unfolded. It's fine to say that Peters would have done roughly the same thing, but she's never played NCAA hockey. I've seen other goalies come along with similar credentials and never come close to the season that Leveille has had. It is rare to sit at the top of all of the statistical categories among starters.

As far as Maschmeyer goes, I liked her more for the Kaz in the first half than in the second, when she has tailed off a bit. At this point, her statistics aren't better than those of Rigsby, so it is tough to say that Maschmeyer has had a better season.

I'd say that Rattray is the favorite. It is likely good for the award if she wins and adds to the list of programs that have won it.

This isn't how the Kazmaier is awarded, but I think that Kelly Terry has had the best season of anyone to date. She doesn't have quite as many overall points as some others, but her role isn't that of a scorer. She's the best back checker I've ever seen, and she ranks up there with the best forecheckers as well. As far as Minnesota forwards go, I think she has had the best performance in the clutch. She had the primary assist on the tying goal in the first Wisconsin game, scored the game's only goals in the 2-0 win, and scored the first goal and made the play for the third goal in Fill the Bowl. She plays if she's hurting and plays hard all the time, no matter the score. So I'd give her my Erika Lawler Award, honoring the player that has made the most plays to win hockey games.

 

[KTDC]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

I wish I would have written ARM's post. I agree.

I think Rattray will be the winner.

Related to what ARM says re: Leveille: in the 2nd period of the first Wisconsin game when Minnesota was so badly outplayed that asst coach Johnson told the TV interviewer "I need to go see if my team has a pulse", the period was scoreless. For me the hook on Leveille was just set in the recent Wisconsin series when she again played so well.

Minnesota has so many skaters that have been so valuable it would be hard to pick out one. In addition to Brandt and Kelly Terry, Sarah Davis has been fabulous, Rachael Bona has been neck and neck with Brandt in scoring and has the 2nd best +/- on the team, and Milica McMillan scored that slick game winner against St Cloud, has the best +/-, and is a really tough stabilizer at defense. Not even mentioning Rachel Ramsey.

 

[THEWIZARD]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Where is Kelly Babstock in the equation? I believe she is top 10 in the nation for scoring and does not play on a team that is loaded with superstars from top to bottom but has put up BIG numbers. Take a peek at where many of these other players are getting their points. Many of players mentioned put up big numbers against bad teams or score meaningless points in 7 to 0 win. Babstock is a flat out STUD. Babstock wins The Kaz in her backyard @ The Oakdale.....Go Babs

 

[ARM]

Where is Kelly Babstock in the equation? … Babstock is a flat out STUD.

No argument there. Other than the second RMU game, she's been a standout whenever I've had the chance to watch her. In the 3-0 loss to Clarkson, it was a case of Clarkson had Rattray, Quinnipiac had Babstock, but Rattray had a lot more help.

 

[THEWIZARD]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Nice post ARM...Babstock is a BEAST....and a GREAT kid on top of that. Just food for thought as well #22 from Minny had a monster year last year w/ Kessel...Kessel gone as is the monster year...hmmmmm....

 

[ARM]

Just food for thought as well #22 from Minny had a monster year last year w/ Kessel...Kessel gone as is the monster year...hmmmmm....

The other way to look at it is that Kessel is gone, but Brandt as a sophomore is still tied for the scoring lead in the country.

 

[Hux]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

I'd say that Nicole Hensley is worthy of consideration.

 

[myStuff]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

I'd say that Nicole Hensley is worthy of consideration.

I concur

 

[mnpokecheck]

Nice post ARM...Babstock is a BEAST....and a GREAT kid on top of that. Just food for thought as well #22 from Minny had a monster year last year w/ Kessel...Kessel gone as is the monster year...hmmmmm....

Could also be that 1+1=3 when Kessel and Brandt are together.

 

[pokechecker]

Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014

Minnesota has so many skaters that have been so valuable it would be hard to pick out one. In addition to Brandt and Kelly Terry, Sarah Davis has been fabulous, Rachael Bona has been neck and neck with Brandt in scoring and has the 2nd best +/- on the team, and Milica McMillan scored that slick game winner against St Cloud, has the best +/-, and is a really tough stabilizer at defense. Not even mentioning Rachel Ramsey.

exactly
nice to see that someone is talking about the other end of the rink, the game isn't only about scoring.
and doesn't playing on a team with only one PP unit, instead of 2 like MN, give many of those players a boost in the scoring race?
just look at the stats, MN forwards have less PP goals than most other players for the simple reason they have twice as many playing on it

here are the +/- of the MN players discussed , and the number of goals scored while they have been on the ice:
Bona +43, 4 goals (!) (0 PP)
McMillan +46, 8 goals (3 PP)
Davis +33, 5 goals (!)(3 PP)
Brandt +39, 9 goals (4 PP)
Ramsey +36, 13 goals (4 PP)
Terry +30, 11 goals (3 PP)
all of them get time on the PP & PK
but note, the goals above (PP) were when they were on the PK unit, so McMillan for example, was on the ice for 11 goals