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Patty Kazmaier 2014
- Thread starter brookyone
- Start date
brookyone
Deport Right Wing Nuts
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
Have seen every wcha team in person against UW this year except the rodents, who are coming up, there is no doubt that UW is a very strong team defensively. That being said, the UW tenders do have to make a few big stops every game and they do. The goals that do go in against UW are not softies. (overall I would say the goaltending is pretty darn good in the wcha) Plus when UW plays the top team,the rodents, Rigsby has kept UW in the game the last few years, though UW's firepower has been down a bit and they haven't won. The Friday game @ the sue UW was dominated badly, but she did not allow a goal in the game or the shootout. She stole that game, it was a game for the ages. And Desbien's Sunday game at home against the sue was equally amazing. Johnson scored majorly in signing her. She will be a PK contender the next 3 years. As far as Rigsby goes, she needs to beat the rodents in a few weeks to solidify her chances.
Have seen every wcha team in person against UW this year except the rodents, who are coming up, there is no doubt that UW is a very strong team defensively. That being said, the UW tenders do have to make a few big stops every game and they do. The goals that do go in against UW are not softies. (overall I would say the goaltending is pretty darn good in the wcha) Plus when UW plays the top team,the rodents, Rigsby has kept UW in the game the last few years, though UW's firepower has been down a bit and they haven't won. The Friday game @ the sue UW was dominated badly, but she did not allow a goal in the game or the shootout. She stole that game, it was a game for the ages. And Desbien's Sunday game at home against the sue was equally amazing. Johnson scored majorly in signing her. She will be a PK contender the next 3 years. As far as Rigsby goes, she needs to beat the rodents in a few weeks to solidify her chances.
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
We always talk a bit in narratives and storylines and generalities with things like MVP, right? It's kind of necessary because nobody gets to watch every team the full season through.
When you're talking Rigsby (and really any goalie) the question is of course always about if they would be as successful behind a "weaker" team. I think an important part of the Rigsby narrative will be to point out that this is the weakest stretch of Wisconsin hockey in a while (Understanding, of course, that that's a relative use of that term) and she's still broken multiple career records. Last year UW didn't even make the NCAAs. This year the entire narrative with UW has been that there's no super-star. I think the narrative in favor of Rigsby will be to point out that her numbers are happening without the same sort of all-star team around her.
We always talk a bit in narratives and storylines and generalities with things like MVP, right? It's kind of necessary because nobody gets to watch every team the full season through.
When you're talking Rigsby (and really any goalie) the question is of course always about if they would be as successful behind a "weaker" team. I think an important part of the Rigsby narrative will be to point out that this is the weakest stretch of Wisconsin hockey in a while (Understanding, of course, that that's a relative use of that term) and she's still broken multiple career records. Last year UW didn't even make the NCAAs. This year the entire narrative with UW has been that there's no super-star. I think the narrative in favor of Rigsby will be to point out that her numbers are happening without the same sort of all-star team around her.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
While it is nice to top Vetter's record, it is important to remember that the presence of Horras and Dufour is the reason Vetter didn't have more wins. Rigsby has three more wins and seven more starts than Vetter had. The next goalie Rigsby will catch in career wins is Pattenden, and nobody ever said that Pattenden deserved the Kaz. Records are nice, but to win the Kaz, you should have the best season in the country, and Rigsby still has work to do in that regard, as do all.
I agree with that, and I definitely think she belongs in the top 10 at this point. The question is, is she having the best season in the country? In that respect, I'd say it's to be determined, because ARD is having a similar season, just with fewer starts. Nobody in the country has really separated themselves yet; I think we will see a bit more separation down the stretch.
I'm not buying that. Three of her seasons, the team has been No. 1 or No. 2 in the country. Her first two years, she played behind teams that were loaded. One was an NCAA champ, and she was asked to just be solid rather than go out and make huge saves to win games. Her sophomore season, the team was slightly weaker, but her play down the stretch wasn't her best, either. Last year, I thought she was very good when I saw her, although she did have a couple of shaky periods. I've only seen her play twice this year, and she was very good, but the goalie at the other end was better.
While it is nice to top Vetter's record, it is important to remember that the presence of Horras and Dufour is the reason Vetter didn't have more wins. Rigsby has three more wins and seven more starts than Vetter had. The next goalie Rigsby will catch in career wins is Pattenden, and nobody ever said that Pattenden deserved the Kaz. Records are nice, but to win the Kaz, you should have the best season in the country, and Rigsby still has work to do in that regard, as do all.
mnpokecheck
Drinking the Koolaid
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
So how do you want to select the PK candidates and Olympic team. I listed the PK nomination process earlier (2 D1 coaches need to nominate a player), how would you improve it so those players that are overlooked get their fair evaluation?
mnpokecheck
Drinking the Koolaid
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
After Raty's remarkable season last year, I think it will be hard for a goalie to win for a couple of years.....may not be fair, but just my opinion.
After Raty's remarkable season last year, I think it will be hard for a goalie to win for a couple of years.....may not be fair, but just my opinion.
FiveHoleFrenzy
Well-known member
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
On the other hand, in an Olympic year, maybe Rigsby has a better than average chance.
On the other hand, in an Olympic year, maybe Rigsby has a better than average chance.
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
Most of the big names seem to go to the hockey talent rich schools and shine! very few go to or are selected from academic institutions where they might be the only truly talented player? Put Rigsby, Howe or Machimeyer at Brown would they still have the great numbers? After losing time and time again would they have the stomach to stay in it? What about a Carpenter, Skrupa, Brandt or? what if they didn't have anyone to pass to or that played close to their level? If they were on the losing end 50+% of the time how would they hold up? Just wondering why the players/goalies that continue to fight through those challenges are over looked? just wondering[/QUOTE]
To play along with Yaba, Phoebe Staenz at Yale is an example of this kind of player. Not dominant enough as a freshman to actually win, but playing really well.
Most of the big names seem to go to the hockey talent rich schools and shine! very few go to or are selected from academic institutions where they might be the only truly talented player? Put Rigsby, Howe or Machimeyer at Brown would they still have the great numbers? After losing time and time again would they have the stomach to stay in it? What about a Carpenter, Skrupa, Brandt or? what if they didn't have anyone to pass to or that played close to their level? If they were on the losing end 50+% of the time how would they hold up? Just wondering why the players/goalies that continue to fight through those challenges are over looked? just wondering[/QUOTE]
To play along with Yaba, Phoebe Staenz at Yale is an example of this kind of player. Not dominant enough as a freshman to actually win, but playing really well.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
She's definitely a player with enough game to get noticed, I think she's improved Yale's bottom line, and her stats are good. What really hurts her this year is the Olympic break. If she was around for the month of February doing good things, it would really help. For players who are away or injured for a long stretch, it can be a case of out of sight, out of mind.
HankScorpio
New member
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
If Michelle Karvinen doesn't make the top-10 then that's a travesty. Also worth putting on the early list from UND is Josefine Jakobsen and Susanna Tapani. Anyone who has seen North Dakota this year should agree with that. All three are super dynamic players.
If Michelle Karvinen doesn't make the top-10 then that's a travesty. Also worth putting on the early list from UND is Josefine Jakobsen and Susanna Tapani. Anyone who has seen North Dakota this year should agree with that. All three are super dynamic players.
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
I like Karvinen; she's a great player, but she's 20th in the country in points per game. I could see somebody voting for her, but unless your dictionary has different definitions, I'm not seeing it as a "travesty" if they don't.
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
You're ignoring the entire premise of my post.
At no point do I say anything about her career numbers being any reason she should be nominated this year. And to use career wins as any
sort of indication would be like giving the Cy Young based on ERA. If we want to choose one of the career records she's likely to break this season, let's at least use save percentage.
The earlier discussion was whether or not goalies should and could be judged on how they would fair with "lesser" teams around them. The best we can do is guess at that, so I used the only bit of actual data we have that's relevant here: which is that Alex has played with a slightly lower caliber team (while admitting that this is a relative thing, since most teams would have killed to have what we considered a down year) and still put up numbers comparable to Jessie's.
I don't think Alex is having the best season in the country - not yet, anyway. But I do think she's top-10.
You're ignoring the entire premise of my post.
At no point do I say anything about her career numbers being any reason she should be nominated this year. And to use career wins as any
sort of indication would be like giving the Cy Young based on ERA. If we want to choose one of the career records she's likely to break this season, let's at least use save percentage.
The earlier discussion was whether or not goalies should and could be judged on how they would fair with "lesser" teams around them. The best we can do is guess at that, so I used the only bit of actual data we have that's relevant here: which is that Alex has played with a slightly lower caliber team (while admitting that this is a relative thing, since most teams would have killed to have what we considered a down year) and still put up numbers comparable to Jessie's.
I don't think Alex is having the best season in the country - not yet, anyway. But I do think she's top-10.
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ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
Sorry. I took this part to be the premise of your earlier post. Both played on teams that were down a bit as juniors. The 2008 team managed to reach the title game, but wasn't a top-four seed, so it overachieved a bit in the tournament, which is kind of where Vetter really established her legacy over the years. I'll agree that in 2013, the cupboard was a bit more bare after Decker. But the other three years in total the UW teams ranked as No. 1, No. 1 all season until losing the championship, and now, No. 2. Because Rigsby is competing with active players, not Vetter, I don't see that a claim can be made that she has played on lesser teams than anyone else. Beyond that, I see you and I as being roughly in agreement. Wisconsin career wins is a record that she has set, so I picked that. Records like save percentage or goals against average are harder, because they aren't really set until the season is complete. To say she is "on pace" is fair. Rigsby belongs in the top 10, with anything else, to be determined.
HankScorpio
New member
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
When you take into account her skill set, what she's done for the program at UND and her off-ice intangibles; that's why she deserves to be on the list. If the Patty Kaz was awarded solely based on points, then Agosta and Knight should have won it. How'd that turn out for them?
When you take into account her skill set, what she's done for the program at UND and her off-ice intangibles; that's why she deserves to be on the list. If the Patty Kaz was awarded solely based on points, then Agosta and Knight should have won it. How'd that turn out for them?
ARM
Fan of chipmunk-like mascots.
I agree with you; Karvinen does very well in the intangibles. What is tough in the intangibles is how do I sort those out for players that I don't know nearly as well? I've gotten to watch Karvinen in person a dozen times and have had the pleasure of speaking with her off the ice several times as well. I have nothing negative to say about her. But it is hard to give her full-value for her intangibles when I don't know so many of the candidates nearly as well. For example, I only spoke to Skarupa once, and she was great. I watched her compete in person once, and she was superb. So I'm not willing to go so far as to say it is a travesty if a Skarupa makes the top 10 and Karvinen does not. Just know going in that there are more than 10 players worthy of being recognized as finalists and it is impossible to name everyone that deserves the honor.
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
While I'll agree that things more than points or goals go into deciding the winner, I'm not sure how far you go into supposed "intangibles" - I'm not sure something like "skill-set" comes in to play in that any of the top talent in the league has a plus skill-set, so that should be a wash.
I'd be interested in what you define as Karvinen having "done for the program" - do mean in terms of bringing other internationals? Or am I uniformed about something else?
While I'll agree that things more than points or goals go into deciding the winner, I'm not sure how far you go into supposed "intangibles" - I'm not sure something like "skill-set" comes in to play in that any of the top talent in the league has a plus skill-set, so that should be a wash.
I'd be interested in what you define as Karvinen having "done for the program" - do mean in terms of bringing other internationals? Or am I uniformed about something else?
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
Not to go totally off-topic, but I'm pretty sure I'll contend to my dying day that Hilary Knight spent her Patty Kaz year on Team USA. That might be my fangirl showing, though.
Not to go totally off-topic, but I'm pretty sure I'll contend to my dying day that Hilary Knight spent her Patty Kaz year on Team USA. That might be my fangirl showing, though.
robertearle
Well-known member
Re: Patty Kazmaier 2014
(Preface by saying this is in NO WAY meant to be a slam AT ALL against Brianna Decker or her having won the Kazmaier. but...)
I am of the opinion that Hilary Knight spent her Kazmaier year centering the 2nd line, opening the door for Decker to center the first line and win the Kaz. The Badgers were a better team overall for it, but if Knight centers the first line, she wins the Kaz.
(Preface by saying this is in NO WAY meant to be a slam AT ALL against Brianna Decker or her having won the Kazmaier. but...)
I am of the opinion that Hilary Knight spent her Kazmaier year centering the 2nd line, opening the door for Decker to center the first line and win the Kaz. The Badgers were a better team overall for it, but if Knight centers the first line, she wins the Kaz.