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Patty Kaz 2012

Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Not to mention ninth-leading scorer Michelle Karvinen from UND.

The WCHA did get more nominees than last year, so it does appear they allowed coaches to nominate more than five per conference. But it seems the WCHA is so talented that even with four more nominees than any other league, it still had some deserving players left off the list.
 
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Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Not a single player on a team with a .500 or worse record. About 90% of the candidates from the top ten. A couple teams with almost as many picks as an entire conference.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

EastFan1 said:
Not a single player on a team with a .500 or worse record.
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Does anybody stand out to you from those teams who deserves at least a mention? Others that I think had very nice seasons but didn't get a nod were Erica Howe, Montana Vichorek, and Sasha Nanji; all were on winning teams as well.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

I was wondering what the answer to the question of "who is the best player from a sub-.500" team?

My first instinct was to think goalies, Weber (Princeton) and Lacasse (Providence). Of courses these teams are the top of the sub-.500 class and have both pulled upsets this season.

Correct me if I'm wrong -- I looked very quickly -- the only player from a sub-.500 team in the top 75 nationally in per game scoring is Brittany Phillips of Colgate.
 
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Re: Patty Kaz 2012

dave1381 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong -- I looked very quickly -- the only player from a sub-.500 team in the top 75 nationally in per game scoring is Brittany Phillips of Colgate.
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Kristina Lavoie of UNH is also in that range.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

There are a couple defense on the 30 list with 5 goals and another with 17 points. A couple forwards on the list with 13 and 15 goals. There are options in the bottom 20. They won't get 10 or so assists for making a neutral zone passes or have dedicated bloggers. There are also five to six goalies with similar save percentages on sub .500 teams.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

EastFan1 said:
There are also five to six goalies with similar save percentages on sub .500 teams.
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No there aren't. The Kaz nominee list includes 4 of the top 6 goalies in save pct, and those goalies were all clear No. 1's. The other two goalies split time. 3 of the top 4 in GAA are on the list, while first on the GAA list split time. The one goalie who wasn't in the top 4 in GAA is far and away the national leader in saves made.

The list may not be perfect, but it's clear to me that the right four goalies are on the list.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

LaCasse and Weber took the lion's share of games. Others are in the 500 or so save range with 18 or more starts.

I just don't buy the focus on GAA or the full time argument. GAA is a function of save percentage.

When one-third of your games and minutes are against teams ranked 20 or more spots below you in the computer rankings, what does GAA even mean? Why wouldn't the back-up start these games?
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

EastFan1 said:
LaCasse and Weber took the lion's share of games.
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LaCasse definitely has the talent to be on the list. I think what works against her is that Providence got off to such a slow start. Can't say if she was slightly off her game as well or just a victim, but her results weren't as good early as they have been lately. If the Friars played the whole season like they have over the last month, then she is not only on the list, she'd be a candidate for top 10, IMO.

EastFan1 said:
GAA is a function of save percentage.
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To a certain extent, but making a save to keep a game at 2-1 in the third period isn't the same as making the save when the score is 7-1. When coaches are voting, I think that raw stats mean less. Coaches are more likely to remember a certain game where a team threw the kitchen sink at a goalie, but she turned everything aside.

EastFan1 said:
Why wouldn't the back-up start these games?
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IMO, that's been one of the big changes in the game over the last decade. The highly-ranked teams used to have a number of games on the schedule where they could start an inexperienced back-up goalie and still be confident of a win. Now, these lower teams, despite their records, are capable of beating top teams if the top teams don't play well. And because everything game matters so much in the rankings, it is hard to find opportunities for these goalies. Teams have gone more toward putting the second goalie in for the third period of games that are out of reach.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

If the bottom 20 teams can pull an upset much easier today such that MN or WI can't ever start the back up goalie, why wouldn't they have a single player under consideration? The back up goalie can't even start one exhibition game against Lindenwood or the other teams that regularly get beat by 5 or 6 goals? Didn't Raty's back-up play some of these teams and have with perfect stats?

On the close game theory, take a look at save percentages in the ties and one goal games and let me know if there is much difference between the players.

LaCasse's slow start? Her game 1 was statistically better then any of the 68 games by a Gopher or Badger tender this year. Not sure why Weber gets dismissed out of hand.

If the Kaz is the award for the best player on the best team, then rename it the Frozen Four MVP award.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

EastFan1 said:
If the Kaz is the award for the best player on the best team, then rename it the Frozen Four MVP award.
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The Kaz voting happens before the NCAA tournament starts, so that's not reasonable. There really hasn't been a ton of overlap between Kaz winners and Frozen Four MVPs in the same season, though there has been some.

"Team success" and "play in the clutch" are Kazmaier criteria, so I don't think it's unreasonable for the Kazmaier to exhibit something like a "player who stands out the most among the best teams" pattern. Better teams are going to have more "clutch" opportunities.

I do agree there's a good case for Weber and Lacasse to be on the list, in addition to other 4 goalies. They both had their moments.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

EastFan1 said:
If the bottom 20 teams can pull an upset much easier today such that MN or WI can't ever start the back up goalie, why wouldn't they have a single player under consideration?
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My impression isn't that teams near the bottom have more great players than they once did, but they have a larger number of good, solid players. Those type of players can cause opponents problems and score goals, even if they aren't one of the first five names to come to mind when a coach is nominating someone for the Kaz. And remember, that is where these nominations are derived, and why players who truly do belong, like Brooke Ammerman, don't appear on the list.

EastFan1 said:
Didn't Raty's back-up play some of these teams and have with perfect stats?
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The reason Räty played as much as she did was because her primary backup had concussion problems all season. The only healthy backup was a freshman walk-on, but you're correct, she did well when she played.

EastFan1 said:
Her game 1 was statistically better then any of the 68 games by a Gopher or Badger tender this year.
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When I said slow start, I meant weeks, not one game. Providence didn't wind up with a bad record in the end, but when a team's record is 1-6-2 or 9-15-3, people tend to be less aware of that team.

I've never seen Weber play, not even a minute on video. I'm not dismissing her, I just have nothing to add. I'm sure she is an excellent goaltender.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

dave1381 said:
No there aren't. The Kaz nominee list includes 4 of the top 6 goalies in save pct, and those goalies were all clear No. 1's. The other two goalies split time. 3 of the top 4 in GAA are on the list, while first on the GAA list split time. The one goalie who wasn't in the top 4 in GAA is far and away the national leader in saves made.

The list may not be perfect, but it's clear to me that the right four goalies are on the list.
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While I agree with you that this is the right list of goalies for the KAZ, it would sometimes be nice to recognize others on lesser teams.

Other posters have already thrown out names like Howe from Clarkson, high on the GAA list and played the most minutes of any tender in the top 10, Lacasse 7th in save percentage and Weber, 8th in save percentage.

As you indicated the four Goalers making the KAZ list all were in the top 6 in save percentage. I think some honorable mention should go the two goalies that finished 3th and 4th on the overall save percentage list, Moore from Brown and Gallagher from Union. These two were a large reason for their teams year over year improvements. While that is maybe not Kaz worthy, given the standings of these teams, still worth recognizing.
 
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Re: Patty Kaz 2012

OnMAA said:
While I agree with you that this is the right list of goalies for the KAZ, it would sometimes be nice to recognize others on lesser teams.

Other posters have already thrown out names like Howe from Clarkson, high on the GAA list and played the most minutes of any tender in the top 10, Lacasse 7th in save percentage and Weber, 8th in save percentage.

As you indicated the four Goalers making the KAZ list all were in the top 6 in save percentage. I think some honorable mention should go the two goalies that finished 3th and 4th on the overall save percentage list, Moore from Brown and Gallagher from Union. These two were a large reason for their teams year over year improvements. While that is maybe not Kaz worthy, given the standings of these teams, still worth recognizing.
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While they may not have gotten Kaz nominations, Howe, Moore, and Weber are under consideration for the ECAC Hockey Goaltender of the Year.
 
Patty Kaz 2012

Some off-topic but maybe SOMEONE initiate thread on conference/league all-stars, players who have earned by the sweat of their own efforts, recognition; before automatic head nods commence!

Step(s) down, so to speak, from Patty K. I will take my comments elsewhere as to upon which I wish to grind- axe.

Speaking here as to Local Favs (in ECAC, Hockey East, Ivy, WCHA, etc.)

Wherever recognition is to be found, wherever SOMEONE in the USA is currently commencing such proceedings- looking this year to bestow an award on a college or university woman ice hockey player !

:eek:!
 
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