What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Patty Kaz 2012

Re: Patty Kaz 2012

All Ivy team:

Player of the Year
Rebecca Johnston, Cornell (Sr.; Sudbury, Ont.) *

Rookie of the Year
Jillian Saulnier, Cornell (Fr.; Halifax, N.S.) *

First-Team All-Ivy
F- Jillian Dempsey, Harvard (Jr.; Winthrop, Mass.) *
F - Rebecca Johnston, Cornell (Sr.; Sudbury, Ont.) *
F - Brianne Jennner, Cornell (So.; Oakville, Ont.) *
D - Lauriane Rogeau, Cornell (Jr.; Beaconsfield, Que.) *
D - Laura Fortino, Cornell (Jr.; Hamilton, Ont.) *
G - Aubree Moore, Brown (So.; Bowie, Md.) ^
G - Rachel Weber, Princeton (Sr.; Hudson, Wis.) ^

Second-Team All-Ivy
F - Reagan Fischer, Dartmouth (Sr.; Irma, Alberta)
F - Kelly Foley, Dartmouth (So.; South Boston, Mass.)
F- Lyndsey Fry, Harvard (So.; Chandler, Ariz.)
D - Sarah Edney, Harvard; (Fr., Mississauga, Ont.)
D - Sasha Nanji, Dartmouth (Jr.; Mrkham, Ont.)
G - Lindsay Holdcroft, Dartmouth (So., Pittsburgh, Pa.) ^
G - Amanda Mazzotta, Cornell (Sr.; London, Ont.) ^

Honorable Mention All-Ivy
F- Jillian Saulnier, Cornell (Fr.; Halifax, N.S.)
F- Catherine White, Cornell (Sr.; Brampton, Ont.)
F - Chelsea Karpenko, Cornell (Sr.; Winnipeg, Man.)
D- Alyssa Gagliardi, Cornell (So.; Raleigh, N.C.)
G - Laura Bellamy, Harvard (Jr.; Duluth, Minn.)

* - Unanimous selection
^ - Expanded to two goalies due to ties in the head coach voting
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Everyone can come up with a statistic that favors their favorite Kaz candidate. Having said that, here is mine: performance in big games (defined as the big 4 in the WCHA & other ranked teams (both played BU):

JLam in 14 big games: 7G 11A, 1.3 points per game; JLam in all other games: 27G 37A, 3.0 points per game
Decker in 14 big games: 13G 15A, 2.0 points per game; Decker in all other games: 22G 27A, 2.2 points per game

Given how close the two are in overall statistics, this would be my on ice performance-based tie-breaker.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

diddlypoo said:
Everyone can come up with a statistic that favors their favorite Kaz candidate. Having said that, here is mine: performance in big games (defined as the big 4 in the WCHA & other ranked teams (both played BU):

JLam in 14 big games: 7G 11A, 1.3 points per game; JLam in all other games: 27G 37A, 3.0 points per game
Decker in 14 big games: 13G 15A, 2.0 points per game; Decker in all other games: 22G 27A, 2.2 points per game

Given how close the two are in overall statistics, this would be my on ice performance-based tie-breaker.
Click to expand...

Based on this, I would then argue for Decker as she plays on a very stacked roster of performers to be able to achieve such numbers.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

diddlypoo said:
Everyone can come up with a statistic that favors their favorite Kaz candidate. Having said that, here is mine: performance in big games (defined as the big 4 in the WCHA & other ranked teams (both played BU):

JLam in 14 big games: 7G 11A, 1.3 points per game; JLam in all other games: 27G 37A, 3.0 points per game
Decker in 14 big games: 13G 15A, 2.0 points per game; Decker in all other games: 22G 27A, 2.2 points per game

Given how close the two are in overall statistics, this would be my on ice performance-based tie-breaker.
Click to expand...
Thanks for compiling the numbers. What makes that a little bit uneven is that I think opponents can key on JLam to a slightly greater extent than Decker, in that UND has MLam and Karvinen in addition, while UW counters with Bro. Ammerman, Knight, and Prévost. If one pulls the same numbers for Knight, I don't think they are too strong.

Can I ask your opinion as a Badgers fan -- how do we sort Rigsby into the mix? How would you compare her season with the one that Decker has had?
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

skatefast said:
Based on this, I would then argue for Decker as she plays on a very stacked roster of performers to be able to achieve such numbers.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't UW's "stacked roster" help Decker do even better in the non-big games? Without doing any more compiling, I suspect Decker's 2 points per game against elite teams compares favorably to just about anyone in recent memory.

I would be more inclined to grant your argument if Knight were on Decker's line, but she isn't. I would say Ammerman/Prevost and MLam/Karvinen are a wash in terms of talent (though to be honest, I don't know how MLam fits in with the ND lines.) Furthermore, JLam's & Decker's lines go head to head with the same #1 lines and defensive pairings. I would also argue that not all goals are created equally -- I'd favor even-strength to power play as well (JLam has 11 PP, Decker has 5), but that's a nit. Does JLam get more ice time too? Who knows.

You can never normalize for everything, but Decker's outsized performances in big games is undeniable.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

diddlypoo said:
Shouldn't UW's "stacked roster" help Decker do even better in the non-big games? Without doing any more compiling, I suspect Decker's 2 points per game against elite teams compares favorably to just about anyone in recent memory.

You can never normalize for everything, but Decker's outsized performances in big games is undeniable.
Click to expand...

I guess what I was thinking was that (and maybe there's data for this) there are more chances/ opportunities for more members/ lines to score goals and assists based on overall talent. I would be curious to see the point spread for the entire badger squad and how it compares to Decker. Versus, ND where I see the Lams/ Karvinen carrying the majority of the weight for the squad, thus scoring the most.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

diddlypoo said:
... though to be honest, I don't know how MLam fits in with the ND lines.
Click to expand...
Outside of the first couple of month, MLam has mostly been playing D. It doesn't mean that they don't still share the ice a lot, just not to the extent that one sees if they're on the same forward line.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Another way to look at it,

JLam figured on 18 of North Dakota's 31 goals (58%), were outscored 31-51 and went 4-8-2 in those games.
Decker figured on 28 of Wisconsin's 53 goals (53%), and went 10-2-2 in those games.

I don't have a strong opinion of how to evaluate that.

I was thinking of a comparison, Chu and Bauer from 2007 before postseason
Each team played 8 games against NCAA teams:
Chu was 1g,8a, figured on 9 of 18 (50%) of team's goals, Harvard was outscored 18-19, went 2-4-2.
Bauer was 1g, 5a, figured on 6 of 14 (43%) of team's goals, Wisconsin outscored opponents 14-6, went 5-1-2.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

skatefast said:
I guess what I was thinking was that (and maybe there's data for this) there are more chances/ opportunities for more members/ lines to score goals and assists based on overall talent. I would be curious to see the point spread for the entire badger squad and how it compares to Decker. Versus, ND where I see the Lams/ Karvinen carrying the majority of the weight for the squad, thus scoring the most.
Click to expand...

Sorry skatefast -- I misread/misinterpreted your original post.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Some Stats on the goalies, Rigsby & Schelling, who are probably the top contenders.

These are their results against the NCAA RPI top 12.

Rigsby
vs. BU, 2-0-0, 46 shots, 1 GA, .978
vs. UND, 3-0-1, 145 shots, 10 GA, .931
vs. UMD, 4-0-0, 147 shots, 9 GA, .936
vs. Minn, 1-2-1, 140 shots, 9 GA, .936
Total, 10-2-2, 475 shots, 29 GA, .939

Schelling
vs. BU, 3-1-0, 147 shots, 7 GA, .952
vs. BC, 0-2-2, 144 shots, 9 GA, .938
Total, 3-3-2, 391 shots, 16 GA, .945

Both obviously still did very well against the best competition. Now you could argue that Rigsby faced much tougher offensive competition, but then you could also argue Schelling didn't have the same kind of talent in front of her.
 
Last edited:
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Some more forward team stats on games against RPI top 12

North Dakota (14 games, 4-8-2, 31 GF, 51 GA)
JLam, 7-11-18
MLam, 6-11-17
Karvinen 4-9-13

Cornell (11 games, 8-3, 43 GF, 27 GA)
Note Johnston/Jenner missed one game against Harvard
Johnston 9-8-17
Jenner 4-10-14
White 5-9-14
Karpenko 4-7-12
Saulnier 6-6-12

Wisconsin (14 games, 10-2-2, 53 GF, 29 GA)
Decker 13-15-28
Prevost 13-15-28
Ammerman much less than 28
Knight less than Ammerman
(I had Ammerman/Knight stats, but then deleted them, oops)

I don't know what to make of this, other than to say that Prevost should've been nominated.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

dave1381 said:
Some Stats on the goalies, Rigsby & Schelling, who are probably the top contenders.
...
Schelling
...
vs. Clk/SLU, 1-1-0, 50 shots, 5 GA, .900
...
Click to expand...
Scratch those, unless the Chloe Desjardins numbers for NU are relevant in terms of how good a mentor Schelling is. ;)
dave1381 said:
I don't know what to make of this, other than to say that Prevost should've been nominated.
Click to expand...
Especially because Prévost isn't just a scorer, but more like a smaller version of Duggan, a do-every thing type. She really deserved some recognition.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

Congrats to Spooner. A lot of you in this thread have wanted some player on a .500-ish team to be recognized by the process. It hasn't happened all that much before, and I was a bit surprised she made it, since her overall scoring numbers weren't high. But I see the case for her, being 4th nationally in goals per game with less talent around her, and she's certainly deserving.

Looking back at my top 10 prediction from midseason, it was pretty much the same except Spooner in, Raty out. I thought it was easy to predict the 4 non-WCHA players in the 10 and that there would be six from the WCHA, bit which six was going to be tough.

I thought Rigsby certainly played well enough in January to earn a slot in the 10, and certainly statistically she's had one of the best college goalie seasons ever. But I guess ARM's analysis earlier was right -- it takes some time to build some momentum. And she was solid but never had any one result that stood out, like a 1-0 shutout win against Minnesota -- she was on the losing end of that one to Raty. And I think that was generally a good assessment that Raty wasn't one of the best 6 in the WCHA this year.

It's also going to be quite amazing if the WCHA produces 60% of the Kaz candidates and it's possible the WCHA might only have 25% of the NCAA field, but we'll see.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

dave1381 said:
Kaz 10 is out

Bram
Johnston
Fortino
Schelling

Knight
Decker
Kessel
MLam
JLam
Spooner
Click to expand...
Overall, I'd say the voters did a good job with what was a crowded field. Schelling is left to carry the torch for the goalies and Fortino for the D -- depending on how you consider MLK. I love that Spooner is on this list, because she truly is a dominant player, but her league is strong enough to limit her offensive explosions to sometimes, rather than all of the time.

It's been hard to lobby for Amanda Kessel, because she had teammates nominated as well, only a real homer would push four players, and it seemed disloyal to say, "Vote for Kessel", and ignore Schoullis, Bozek, and Räty. But Kessel is a special player, the type that will have a good shot at winning or at least being a top three finalist in her next couple of seasons. She is on pace to challenge the all-time scoring records at Minnesota, and if she winds up playing with Hannah Brandt next year, they could really light up the scoreboard. If there is somebody in the country faster than Kessel, I'd love to watch her. A totally different type of player than somebody like Spooner, but IMO, just as dynamic.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

ARM said:
Overall, I'd say the voters did a good job with what was a crowded field. Schelling is left to carry the torch for the goalies and Fortino for the D -- depending on how you consider MLK. I love that Spooner is on this list, because she truly is a dominant player, but her league is strong enough to limit her offensive explosions to sometimes, rather than all of the time.

It's been hard to lobby for Amanda Kessel, because she had teammates nominated as well, only a real homer would push four players, and it seemed disloyal to say, "Vote for Kessel", and ignore Schoullis, Bozek, and Räty. But Kessel is a special player, the type that will have a good shot at winning or at least being a top three finalist in her next couple of seasons. She is on pace to challenge the all-time scoring records at Minnesota, and if she winds up playing with Hannah Brandt next year, they could really light up the scoreboard. If there is somebody in the country faster than Kessel, I'd love to watch her. A totally different type of player than somebody like Spooner, but IMO, just as dynamic.
Click to expand...

Might wanna watch Kendall Coyne then.
 
Re: Patty Kaz 2012

PTS34 said:
Might wanna watch Kendall Coyne then.
Click to expand...
Coyne is very fast. Faster than Kessel? I don't know. Maybe at some point, I'll get a chance to watch them on the same ice and can better make a comparison.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top