Paris Under Attack....the hell?

[The Rube]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

I don't think you understand how the attacks came about. They were at the top level of the Bataclan. The pit is where the vast majority of people are. I posted a link to it earlier. They were also throwing grenades. There are no tables. There was likely nothing these people could do but run.

This isn't a small space. This was a place where they had all of the advantages. Bullets from a gun like an AK would go through a table like a hot knife though butter.

Yep. Pretty much just shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

Even if it isn't feasible to rush at a man with an automatic weapon, they were in a club: a group of people could throw glasses and bottles at the guy, turn tables on the side as shields, something....

someone has been watching too many movies

 

[Handyman]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

And if we do overreact and do things like Huckabee (no refugees at all) or Cruz (no Muslims, only Christians -- yes, he actually said that on Fox this morning) suggest, we are the best recruiters ISIS can have, Just as we played right into AQ's hands by invading Iraq.

There is no simple answer, but the reaction, "Don't think; DO SOMETHING!", while understandable, does no good and can do a lot of bad.

Going to war with them, suspending "Western Values" in the face of an enemy is exactly what they want.

And to those that want us to nuke them into glass let me posit a question: What would you say if you found out some of the extremists only went through with the attack because their family was accidentally killed during our Forever War on Terror? Dont they deserve the right to justice? Better yet, if you can justify America killing innocent people in great numbers over innocent death cant they justify doing the same thing for the same reason?

That is the problem with vigilante justice and retribution, someone innocent is always affected and can claim they are owed justice.

Lets also look at the irony of Wednesday having a holiday honoring our vets and their sacrifice and now some wanting us to create the next wave of vets by sending them to war. And that is what you guys are doing...this isnt Call of Duty.

Oh and one more question to ponder...Brent mentioned nuking some cities to get them to stop. If ISIS nuked a few cities in the US do yo think America would surrender? I dont. Now add in the fight for God...there is no way any of these extremists are going to quit and if you attack sovereign nations unprovoked they arent going to help you either. Just terrible war strategy...

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

That is the problem with vigilante justice and retribution, someone innocent is always affected and can claim they are owed justice.

"An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth."
"Very good. That way the whole world will be blind and toothless."

 

[The Rube]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

Oh and one more question to ponder...Brent mentioned nuking some cities to get them to stop. If ISIS nuked a few cities in the US do yo think America would surrender? I dont. Now add in the fight for God...there is no way any of these extremists are going to quit and if you attack sovereign nations unprovoked they arent going to help you either. Just terrible war strategy...

I've relatively calmed down, and frankly, here are the options (in general) IMO. Choose any and/or all:

1. Bomb the F outta everyone associated with ISIS. Innocents will be lost, yes. A tragedy? Yes. At least all these animals will be gone.

2. Half-arse it, like we've been doing. This includes sanctions, ground troops, etc. It hasn't worked since 9-11, in all honesty. Proof? See: yesterday's events for starters.

3. Close up shop (my personal choice, if I were to be rational). Stop policing the world. Yes, it would be tough goings for the U.S. for a while, but I think we can manage. We're a power nation for a reason.

I won't and cannot condemn all Muslims, that simply is ignorant. However, I'm getting real sick of the extremists. I've seen comparisons to the KKK/Christianity, and last I saw, the KKK isn't massacring hundreds of people at a time, even back in the day. I also hate the "gun-free" argument. Some Parisian with a gun wasn't stopping this attack, and I'm pro-gun, for lack of a better term.

There will be a day where it will be nut-cuttin' time, aka "Put up or shut up," and if yesterday's events wasn't that day, it's coming soon.

Restez forts, mes amis.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

What would you say if you found out some of the extremists only went through with the attack because their family was accidentally killed during our Forever War on Terror? Dont they deserve the right to justice?

I'd say you can get the fvck outta here with that speculative moral equivalency bullsh*t.

I'll readily admit there is no easy solution to this problem. We can't afford another all-out war, given that we're still paying for the last one for at least another 30 years. Closing the borders entirely is the antithesis of democracy, the first big step towards totalitarianism, and royally screws our global economy.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

If you want to be tolerant towards those that pray five times a day, this is what happens.

The first war the US ever fought was to protect ships from Muslims, hence why the Marine fight song mentions the shores of Tripoli.

 

[joecct]

And if we do overreact and do things like Huckabee (no refugees at all) or Cruz (no Muslims, only Christians -- yes, he actually said that on Fox this morning) suggest, we are the best recruiters ISIS can have, Just as we played right into AQ's hands by invading Iraq.

There is no simple answer, but the reaction, "Don't think; DO SOMETHING!", while understandable, does no good and can do a lot of bad.

I am curious to see what the French are going to do. Will the deport every refugee? Every Muslim? Nothing?

If the French expel, what will the Germans/Benelux/Spaniards do?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

I am curious to see what the French are going to do. Will the deport every refugee? Every Muslim? Nothing?

If the French expel, what will the Germans/Benelux/Spaniards do?

They've shut the borders (if they still even have those given the EU). Nothing in, but most importantly, nothing out. Citizens are defenceless because of gun control. it's open season. Only a matter of time before, like every single confrontation in history, they surrender.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

Couldn't have asked for worse timing

I wonder if the President still thinks ISIS is the "JV" squad?

 

[jericho]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

These guys seem like they are trying to unite countries that have lukewarm feelings for each other...Russia, France, United States, etc...It's almost like they are trying to start WWIII and get obliterated.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

These guys seem like they are trying to unite countries that have lukewarm feelings for each other...Russia, France, United States, etc...It's almost like they are trying to start WWIII and get obliterated.

They'll get their virgins, then.

I don't care if killing them makes them martyrs. Let 'em think whatever they wanna think. They're dead either way.

 

[jericho]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

They'll get their virgins, then.

I don't care if killing them makes them martyrs. Let 'em think whatever they wanna think. They're dead either way.

Reminds me of the joke...

Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein meet in the afterlife. They are met by George Washington, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson and a bunch of others. They ask Allah where their virgins are, and Allah replies, "Oh, you thought I said 72 Virgins? I meant 72 Virginians."

 

[Jimjamesak]

They've shut the borders (if they still even have those given the EU). Nothing in, but most importantly, nothing out. Citizens are defenceless because of gun control. it's open season. Only a matter of time before, like every single confrontation in history, they surrender.

You spell defense with a C! I knew it! You commie spy!

(Preemptive apology to everybody else for ruining the thread by responding to a ridiculous post with sarcasm.)

 

[theprofromdover]

Even if it isn't feasible to rush at a man with an automatic weapon, they were in a club: a group of people could throw glasses and bottles at the guy, turn tables on the side as shields, something....

Thanks, Ben.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

edit: deleted because I dont want a fight. Lets just hope things dont spiral...

 

[alfablue]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

I've relatively calmed down, and frankly, here are the options (in general) IMO. Choose any and/or all:

1. Bomb the F outta everyone associated with ISIS. Innocents will be lost, yes. A tragedy? Yes. At least all these animals will be gone.

2. Half-arse it, like we've been doing. This includes sanctions, ground troops, etc. It hasn't worked since 9-11, in all honesty. Proof? See: yesterday's events for starters.

3. Close up shop (my personal choice, if I were to be rational). Stop policing the world. Yes, it would be tough goings for the U.S. for a while, but I think we can manage. We're a power nation for a reason.

I won't and cannot condemn all Muslims, that simply is ignorant. However, I'm getting real sick of the extremists. I've seen comparisons to the KKK/Christianity, and last I saw, the KKK isn't massacring hundreds of people at a time, even back in the day. I also hate the "gun-free" argument. Some Parisian with a gun wasn't stopping this attack, and I'm pro-gun, for lack of a better term.

There will be a day where it will be nut-cuttin' time, aka "Put up or shut up," and if yesterday's events wasn't that day, it's coming soon.

Restez forts, mes amis.

Properly done ground troops will do more than carpet bombing. Throughout history of air warfare, this has been the case.

But that's the hardest choice of them all.

Bombing innocents just makes the people doing the bombing terrorists. What's the point of that? Who can generate more terror? Does anyone honestly think that the thread of violence stops anything? Our country was founded on people who ignored the threat of violence from England, for God's sake.

A better question to ask- what is so appealing of ISIS et al? Why are people willing to die so willingly for it?

 

[Kepler]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

A better question to ask- what is so appealing of ISIS et al? Why are people willing to die so willingly for it?

Exactly. Without addressing this, we're just firing blindly into the dark.

The drive for self-preservation is awfully strong. For so many to be willing, even eager, to deliberately kill themselves, there must be a very strong socio-psychological cause.

Save the moderates, save the world.

 

[Jimjamesak]

A better question to ask- what is so appealing of ISIS et al? Why are people willing to die so willingly for it?

Poverty and depression caused by horrible income equality from exploitation by morally bankrupt leaders and western capitalism.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Paris Under Attack....the hell?

Exactly. Without addressing this, we're just firing blindly into the dark.

It's dying for a God. Becoming a martyr. Extreme Muslims are THAT committed to their religion. There are some who don't accept that explanation, and that (IMO) is what is hindering things. The doubters cannot comprehend that there ARE people who WILL go all the way for their religion.

Over the course of history, religion has started many a war. Few groups have actually entered conflict hoping to die for their cause (due to whatever rewards the afterlife gives them). ISIS is one of those groups.