Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close 1st

[OSUPBPMike]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Thanks for the support over the four years, everyone. It's been a pleasure. Go easy on my successor next year, please.

 

[97osu]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Thanks for the support over the four years, everyone. It's been a pleasure. Go easy on my successor next year, please.

Good luck to you, and the rest of your classmates. You guys have really raised the bar again for the Communications department at Oswego.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Whatever.....

It is what it is.

 

[ColdInRomney]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Back home from LP. Tough game, hats off to Wisconsin EC, they played a great game. I'm thinking the Laker loss is 10% officiating (not really that bad), 20% the Norwich hangover, and 70% getting outplayed by a faster, tougher team. Not necessarily more talented, but a lot faster and tougher. They disrupted our flow and passing, blocked shots, and hustled around us. They were the better team on the ice. Almost a replay of of last years game, the Western team outplayed us.

But still a great season- two thirds of the objective met. Winning the SUNYAC, beating Norwich, making it to the finals. I'm sure the team is dissapointed and will be for a while, but the glass is still 2/3 full.

 

[Saints17]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Congrads to the Lakers on another great season. You folks are very classy and your program as well. While the loss is tough and heartbreaking, you guys have nothing to hang your heads about. See you all next season!

 

[OZFEST]

It is what it is.

I don't know why it had to be published Norm. If it appeared it was going to be a potential issue, the college would change, alter or drop a policy, program, etc. on their own. Their business. Press release worthy? Probably not. I am sure SUNY or college trustee board would have been available to advise if needed. Colleges are becoming more self regulated as the NCAA becomes more inept IMO. They don't wait on the NCAA anymore. And if you don't think there isn't a little dirt under the nails of the powers that reign in Plattsburgh or any other DIII school you are a bit naive my friend.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

I don't know why it had to be published Norm. If it appeared it was going to be a potential issue, the college would change, alter or drop a policy, program, etc. on their own. Their business. Press release worthy? Probably not. I am sure SUNY or college trustee board would have been available to advise if needed. Colleges are becoming more self regulated as the NCAA becomes more inept IMO. They don't wait on the NCAA anymore. And if you don't think there isn't a little dirt under the nails of the powers that reign in Plattsburgh or any other DIII school you are a bit naive my friend.

Not for the sake of DIII hockey, not for the sake of the NCAA, but as courtesy to the potential international students. This was not a minor administrative program change, this was a premier offering - just Google "International Student Undergraduate Scholarship" and the first listing is still "SUNY Oswego - Merit Scholarships" - despite the fact that the term no longer appears on the page referenced - because Google's algorithms still returns it at the top.

Google "International Student Undergraduate Scholarship" oswego and you will see all the pages that promote it to potential students, who will eventually find it no longer exists.

I do not buy that the program' demise was to minor to report.

 

[OSU2010]

Not for the sake of DIII hockey, not for the sake of the NCAA, but as courtesy to the potential international students. This was not a minor administrative program change, this was a premier offering - just Google "International Student Undergraduate Scholarship" and the first listing is still "SUNY Oswego - Merit Scholarships" - despite the fact that the term no longer appears on the page referenced - because Google's algorithms still returns it at the top.

Google "International Student Undergraduate Scholarship" oswego and you will see all the pages that promote it to potential students, who will eventually find it no longer exists.

I do not buy that the program' demise was to minor to report.

Should they have called the New York Times and requested a front page story that they're no longer giving the international scholarship to athletes?

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

When Plattsburgh canceled theirs back in the mid-2000's there wasn't no big huge press release or public statement then either....must be they were trying to "cover it up" too...

I give Oswego credit. They admitted there was an issue, and are correcting it THEMSELVES, with out the NCAA telling them (publicly) that they have to...

Like I and another OSU fan were discussing last night, I wish we knew the "breakdown" of just how close to the 50% ratio OSU was. I have a strong feeling they are not that far off of it. Surely not the 90%+ that OTHER schools were....the ones who got a "don't do it again" slap on the wrist....

As we continued to discuss, this whole FA packages is really unique to hockey, and more so DIII hockey. You don't find really any other sport where 75% of a roster is foreign student athletes. I'm not sure but I am willing to bet the American/Foreign ratio on Mt.Vernon's football team is no where near 75% not any of the top football teams. Same with basketball, baseball, tennis, ect.... It's something the NCAA could and should step in and put more of a guideline on both in penalties and regulations.

Schools could essentially give a 99% international grant to 26 student athletes and another 27 to non-student athletes IF the school agreed to allow such a cut in tuition coming in. 53 essential "free" rides at a smaller DIII school where every penny really matters in today budget, but anyways it could happen.

The NCAA needs to set a limit, a % limit. You are allowed to give out a max of 15% of your tuition for international package grants.

On top of that, the NCAA should also set different penalties for the misuse.

50-60% athletes - Stern talking to, probation (you have to give some in case people don't show up off setting the ratio)
61-70% athletes - Loss of grants for 3 years
71-80% athletes - Loss of grants for 3 years, plus 1 year loss of post season
81-90% athletes - Loss of grants for 3 years, 3 year loss of post season
-90% + athletes - Loss of grants for 3 years, 3 year loss of post season, loss of records during illegal use of grants

Sorry but if you are at 90% or more its obviously flagrant what you're doing

 

[NUProf]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

When Plattsburgh canceled theirs back in the mid-2000's there wasn't no big huge press release or public statement then either....must be they were trying to "cover it up" too...

I give Oswego credit. They admitted there was an issue, and are correcting it THEMSELVES, with out the NCAA telling them (publicly) that they have to...

Like I and another OSU fan were discussing last night, I wish we knew the "breakdown" of just how close to the 50% ratio OSU was. I have a strong feeling they are not that far off of it. Surely not the 90%+ that OTHER schools were....the ones who got a "don't do it again" slap on the wrist....

As we continued to discuss, this whole FA packages is really unique to hockey, and more so DIII hockey. You don't find really any other sport where 75% of a roster is foreign student athletes. I'm not sure but I am willing to bet the American/Foreign ratio on Mt.Vernon's football team is no where near 75% not any of the top football teams. Same with basketball, baseball, tennis, ect.... It's something the NCAA could and should step in and put more of a guideline on both in penalties and regulations.

Schools could essentially give a 99% international grant to 26 student athletes and another 27 to non-student athletes IF the school agreed to allow such a cut in tuition coming in. 53 essential "free" rides at a smaller DIII school where every penny really matters in today budget, but anyways it could happen.

The NCAA needs to set a limit, a % limit. You are allowed to give out a max of 15% of your tuition for international package grants.

On top of that, the NCAA should also set different penalties for the misuse.

50-60% athletes - Stern talking to, probation (you have to give some in case people don't show up off setting the ratio)
61-70% athletes - Loss of grants for 3 years
71-80% athletes - Loss of grants for 3 years, plus 1 year loss of post season
81-90% athletes - Loss of grants for 3 years, 3 year loss of post season
-90% + athletes - Loss of grants for 3 years, 3 year loss of post season, loss of records during illegal use of grants

Sorry but if you are at 90% or more its obviously flagrant what you're doing

The standard isn't 50% - the ratio needs to match the ratio of international students to the student body. If you have 50% of your hockey players on an international scholarship, then you would need 50% of your entire student body to be on the same aid. This is why such programs are so problematic. Most likely to be in compliance your hockey team could have maybe 1 player on that kind of aid. The percentage on the package should be approximately the same for both groups. There is some slack, but the difference can't be statistically significant.

 

[toto238]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Which is a good thing since one died during the most recent SUNYAC championship!

I talked with one of the zamboni guys at LP (yeah they're big fans too, good for them) and he said the problem the zamboni was having was that it was letting snow out the sides. It didn't really break down, it just wasn't working completely properly. They didn't want a guy with a shovel have to follow around the zamboni all around the ice to clean up after it.

And yes, this is information that everyone NEEDED to know.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

The standard isn't 50% - the ratio needs to match the ratio of international students to the student body. If you have 50% of your hockey players on an international scholarship, then you would need 50% of your entire student body to be on the same aid. This is why such programs are so problematic. Most likely to be in compliance your hockey team could have maybe 1 player on that kind of aid. The percentage on the package should be approximately the same for both groups. There is some slack, but the difference can't be statistically significant.

Not from what I've read. It has to deal with the ratio of foreign students to foreign student atheltes. It doesn't matter what the overall body of the school is. As long as its 51% non foreign student athletes to 49% foreign student athletes. As long as that ratio is equal or weighted more on the non student you are in compliance

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

I talked with one of the zamboni guys at LP (yeah they're big fans too, good for them) and he said the problem the zamboni was having was that it was letting snow out the sides. It didn't really break down, it just wasn't working completely properly. They didn't want a guy with a shovel have to follow around the zamboni all around the ice to clean up after it.

And yes, this is information that everyone NEEDED to know.

E tu, toto? E tu?

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

I know that University of Wisconsin uses two...they have Olympic sized ice. I might guess that many 200 x 100 sheets use two. Come to think of it, I am a bit surprised that the Aud does not have two. With two you could have twice the number of beer ads on the 'boni!.

 

[97osu]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

I know that University of Wisconsin uses two...they have Olympic sized ice. I might guess that many 200 x 100 sheets use two. Come to think of it, I am a bit surprised that the Aud does not have two. With two you could have twice the number of beer ads on the 'boni!.

The Aud doesn't need two. The current operator drives like he is running time trials at Bristol, and would catch up to the other zamboni defeating the purpose

 

[toto238]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

E tu, toto? E tu?

Comparing ourselves to ancient dictators now are we? ;-)

I'm totally staying out of the whole financial aid debate thing though because I have no idea how that works. From what I understand, there are things you can and can't do and the guidelines are complex and nuanced. Not my cup of tea.

Honestly, hockey is won on the ice, not in the financial aid office.

 

[LakerFan99]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Comparing ourselves to ancient dictators now are we? ;-)

I'm totally staying out of the whole financial aid debate thing though because I have no idea how that works. From what I understand, there are things you can and can't do and the guidelines are complex and nuanced. Not my cup of tea.

Honestly, hockey is won on the ice, not in the financial aid office.

Smart move. I'll take a the blame, I simply wondered out loud how the loss of that aid *might* affect recruiting in the future. Next year's team may be even better than this year's.

Bringing up money and hockey is apparently a very touchy subject for some...

 

[norm1909]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Should they have called the New York Times and requested a front page story that they're no longer giving the international scholarship to athletes?

No, a minor, routine website press release would have been fine - something for the search bots would have been fine. And don't get me wrong, I do not find Plattsburgh's administration any better - probably worse (especially Bruce), so this is not an attempt to pick on Oswego - but I will call a spade a spade.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Comparing ourselves to ancient dictators now are we? ;-)

I'm totally staying out of the whole financial aid debate thing though because I have no idea how that works. From what I understand, there are things you can and can't do and the guidelines are complex and nuanced. Not my cup of tea.

Honestly, hockey is won on the ice, not in the financial aid office.

While your last statement may be somewhat true, FA grants packages whatever allow teams the opportunity to put a better product on the ice.

If school things being equal, but school A can give you $5, 000 more off your tuition each year then school B, where might you go? Now add even more to that upwards of $12, ,000 a year off your bill to now ZERO....that's what the question now is at Oswego. ...

 

[LakerEagleLover]

Re: Oswego State Laker Hockey 2012-13...Part 2..Because Norwich's thread didn't close

Comparing ourselves to ancient dictators now are we? ;-)

A bad yoke on my part, Tim, but in my bible, JC was no dictator... When I saw two guys on their back under the Z..and then they had to push it out of the way so the back-up could clean the ice, I assumed...oh, never mind.