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Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

Timothy A said:
I guess today is D Day for the IRL with the new chassis/engine rules for 2012 being released. There better be multiple engine/chassis choices, that's all I ask. No more spec racing, please.
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D Day as in Dallara day- it's a Dallara rolling chassis, and anyone's aero package. Interesting idea, the rolling chassis is designed for safety (includes some ideas to reduce wheel to wheel interactions)- and the aero package is designed for innovation (within constraints). Anyone can come up with a package, as long as any team can buy it.

And along with the 2.4l boosted up to V6 engine package, at least all the cars will not be the same. I wonder if the I4's will be better, since they have a narrower overall package....
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

I thought IRL's concept is interesting and overall a good place to start a compromise between costs and multiple chassis. I think it will be interesting to see which companies step up to the plate to make aero packages. The only downside I can foresee is that the series ends up with only Dallara areo packages too.

I wonder if Penske will do his own again....hmmm.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

MattS said:
I thought IRL's concept is interesting and overall a good place to start a compromise between costs and multiple chassis. I think it will be interesting to see which companies step up to the plate to make aero packages. The only downside I can foresee is that the series ends up with only Dallara areo packages too.

I wonder if Penske will do his own again....hmmm.
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What's interesting is that all the aero packages that people come up with have to be able to be sold to everyone.

Now, they may only be applicable to those with similar powertrains (since the I and V engines will have different packaging/flow), but who knows.

I'm optimistic, too.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

New package....The more I read and ponder, the more disappointed I am. First off, the IRL should not have taken into consideration where the cars will be built. I don't care if they are built in Indiana or the North Pole. Getting politicians and tax payer money involved is never a good thing. Secondly, the cost of the Dallara aero packages to teams is $70,000 in the second year. If Swift wants to design an aero package, how will they make any money if they have to sell it for around that same price? I have to beleive it will take hundreds of thousands of dollars to design, manufacture and maintain these aero packages. If they only end up signing up 4 cars to use their package @$100,000 per package, the $400,000 gross income will be far short of covering thier cost. And the first year cost is $45,000, which freezed out everyone else for sure (except for Penske and Ganassi). Next, let's say Penske does his own aero package. He must make it available to customers. He'll have version 1 of the package on the market at the start of the season, and by the time the 2nd race is run, he'll have version 3 on his cars. So why would I buy from Penske knowing my customer version will always be inferior to what he's got on his cars? There's no way to police it to force him to sell the same verion on the market he's got on his cars. Robin Miller said this was the best they could come up with when the timetable was taken into consierdation. I would have rather seen more thought, discussion/negociation (where they could have dealt with funding or exclusivity issues with mfger's) and design (thus leading to firm commitments at the roll out press conference) for a 2013 kickoff than a 2012 plan that has no commitments other than from Dallara and Indiana. Was another year in this aweful cars really going to matter? IMHO, No.

I think the rush to get this done for 2012 really shortchanged the process and the outcome.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

Timothy A said:
Was another year in this aweful cars really going to matter? IMHO, No.
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Got to disagree here. I think the IRL is in very, very desperate times and need to make drastic changes ASAP or they are going under.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

MattS said:
Got to disagree here. I think the IRL is in very, very desperate times and need to make drastic changes ASAP or they are going under.
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You can't even market what they are going to do, which is crucial to getting interest up, because there are no commitments. If they could have rolled out 2 different chassis and dropped the cloth on 3 engine mfger's logo's at the press conference, that would have had a wow factor and had given people something to follow over the next year. It's still a wait and see thing, and pieces will trickle in here and there. There's absolutley no momentum as of right now, and there should have be tons.

I also tink it's very significant that Penske and Ganassi were not at the press conference. I have a hunch Penske is out after this season.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

Timothy A said:
You can't even market what they are going to do, which is crucial to getting interest up, because there are no commitments. If they could have rolled out 2 different chassis and dropped the cloth on 3 engine mfger's logo's at the press conference, that would have had a wow factor and had given people something to follow over the next year. It's still a wait and see thing, and pieces will trickle in here and there. There's absolutley no momentum as of right now, and there should have be tons.

I also tink it's very significant that Penske and Ganassi were not at the press conference. I have a hunch Penske is out after this season.
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It would have been better if IRL could have done what you said, but then we would be waiting another 6 month to year to finalize all those deals. Since they are a spec series and want to change from that, they first need to announce how the rules are going to change. Now that that is done, I think either in the winter or more likely at Indy next year will be an announcement about engine suppliers and are suppliers.

Penske and Ganassi were probably sore about the delta wing getting nixed. Penske will stay. He's too addicted to Indy if nothing else. (yeah, I know he missed a few years but he came back)
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

A day of controversial results in Open Wheel racing.

Starting in Germany- Masa got a smoken hot start to pass his teamate who was being blocked by Vettel. Yet, near the end- apparently Fernando was "faster" than Masa, as told to Masa. So he held up coming out of the hairpin- making it rather obvious that team orders were in major play, even though team orders are not allowed.

How this plays out will be interesting- since the rule was written FOR Ferrari, and since McLaren and RBR have been letting their drivers race each other. If Fernando was faster, then just pass, for real. What I saw was pretty lame.

And I thought the IndyCar race was going to be a Penske sweep, alas, thanks to a controversial blocking call on Castroneves against Power, Dixon wins? I actually missed the end watching my taped F1 Race.

Interesting.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

alfablue said:
A day of controversial results in Open Wheel racing.

Starting in Germany- Masa got a smoken hot start to pass his teamate who was being blocked by Vettel. Yet, near the end- apparently Fernando was "faster" than Masa, as told to Masa. So he held up coming out of the hairpin- making it rather obvious that team orders were in major play, even though team orders are not allowed.

How this plays out will be interesting- since the rule was written FOR Ferrari, and since McLaren and RBR have been letting their drivers race each other. If Fernando was faster, then just pass, for real. What I saw was pretty lame.

And I thought the IndyCar race was going to be a Penske sweep, alas, thanks to a controversial blocking call on Castroneves against Power, Dixon wins? I actually missed the end watching my taped F1 Race.

Interesting.
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Bad racing all around!

Ferrari looks like morons with their ordering of Massa to let Alonso by. And I like how Massa did just what was asked of him, and if he happened to make it obvious then so much the better.

As for IRL...once again they show why it is the joke of open wheel racing. In no way did Helio block. He held his line until the he started to swing a touch wide to hit the apex of the corner. Bad call.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

MattS said:
Bad racing all around!

Ferrari looks like morons with their ordering of Massa to let Alonso by. And I like how Massa did just what was asked of him, and if he happened to make it obvious then so much the better.

As for IRL...once again they show why it is the joke of open wheel racing. In no way did Helio block. He held his line until the he started to swing a touch wide to hit the apex of the corner. Bad call.
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IRL...*** was that? Blocking? Give me a break. It was just as you said and nothing more. Barnhart needs to get fired. NOW. What an embarrassement. On the funny side, Duno spins out her car before the first turn and gets parked. And Barnhart taking more than 1 or 2 races to bench her is criminal, let alone how many seasons. If Penske stopped racing in that league, I'd stop watching. Rodger, please put me out of my misery.

F1....How dumb is Ferrari? (I'm a huge fan) They should have at least tried to make the team order a clandestined radio transmission, or before the race, tell Massa if he's in the lead with x laps to go, slowly slow down and let Alonso by, then keep falling back until 3rd gets too close. Make it look like there's a tire problem or something. But to order it over the radio and have the whole team blabbing about it afterwards is stupid. Better yet, don't use team orders. They are going to get hammered and rightfully so.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

MattS said:
As for IRL...once again they show why it is the joke of open wheel racing. In no way did Helio block. He held his line until the he started to swing a touch wide to hit the apex of the corner. Bad call.
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The problem turns out to how IndyCar defines Blocking- check out the lead video on indycar.com- you'll see how dumb it is.

The IndyCar rule is that as a defending driver, you are ONLY allowed on the outside half of the track. You are not allowed on the inside half as you approach the apex.

That's right, you are not allowed to defend your position- if you do, that's called blocking. Even IF you do not block in anyway- and the attacking car stays outside and is never behind you until the apex- it's blocking.

That is really dumb.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

alfablue said:
The problem turns out to how IndyCar defines Blocking- check out the lead video on indycar.com- you'll see how dumb it is.

The IndyCar rule is that as a defending driver, you are ONLY allowed on the outside half of the track. You are not allowed on the inside half as you approach the apex.

That's right, you are not allowed to defend your position- if you do, that's called blocking. Even IF you do not block in anyway- and the attacking car stays outside and is never behind you until the apex- it's blocking.

That is really dumb.
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IRL/IZOD, please just implode to spare us the lunacy of what is going on. Even Crapcar is giving the IRL a run for it's money now in the lunacy front.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

I agree with you Timothy A. I am seriously considering not watching anymore IRL races. I, too, am a fan of Penske and he is pretty much the only reason I watch anymore.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

Well, I actually got to watch an entite F1 race live this weekend. :) A pretty interesting race with Alonso/Vettel fighting it out for a lot of the race for 2nd place once Vettel got penalized. But, that track is crap. I fully expected Vettel to pass Alonso easily, catch Webber and then have the team mates have it out, but Alonso was too fast at the end of the straight and that's basically it for passing spots. What Webber did with those optional tyres on the first stint was magical.

I am a HUGE Schumi fan, but what he did to Rubens was totally unacceptable. That's just about the worst block I have ever seen, nearly pushing him into the wall.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

That is a terrible track. One and only one spot on the whole track to pass and even that gets iffy once the marbles start to build up on the outside of Turn 1.

For me the highlight was watching Vettel get that penalty. I use to like Vettel but right now I can't stand him. He's a heck of a talent, but his antics are making his team look bad.

The only other excitement was that whole Rosberg wheel coming off at the same time Kubica was released from his pit into the path of Sutil. What a shame for both of them.



Four weeks until Spa! :) or :( One of my favorite tracks but waiting four weeks sucks.


I guess I might have to watch the two IRL races between now and Spa for something to do. Maybe if I am lucky there will be some fiasco at one of the races or....gasp.... a non Ganassi or Penske wins a race and it will give us something to talk about for a while! ;)
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

Four weeks to Spa, but more important for me is six weeks until Monza!!! :D I think we will be pretty close to the track- no idea how we found that hotel, though.

Eventful race- gotta give a lot of props to Weber, to make those soft tires last so long, and that quick, too. He really earned that win with the alternate strategy from Vettel- which he really had to do, since changing tires with Vettel would have meant multiple place drop.

too bad for Hamilton- I was hoping to see if his early quick pace was real, since he was so much slower duing qualifying- or was that Alonso holding up that group enough to make him look fast.

Rumors are that they will be chaning the front wing deflection test for Spa- so those new wings for Ferrari and Red Bull may no longer be legal with the testing. We will see.

Michael, Michael, Michael.... what are you thinking? That was weak. And what if someone was just coming out of the pits at the same time? You *were* better than that, or I may be just imagining it.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

alfablue said:
Michael, Michael, Michael.... what are you thinking? That was weak. And what if someone was just coming out of the pits at the same time? You *were* better than that, or I may be just imagining it.
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He's always been a "physical" driver, borderline unethical a few times per year.

Spa coming up, I love Spa...

Next IRL race, I don't know if I can bear to watch knowing what a ****ed up series it is run by that dumbass Barnhart. That's guy's policy on blocking is just horrific. To me a line in the sand has been crossed where I can't overlook the pathetic underpinnings of the league. We've all seen way more horrible blocking moves NOT get called time and time again. I HATE inconsistancies, like the BB strike zone. Right now I say, sorry Rodger, but **** you IRL.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

Robin Miller finally printed one of my emails in his email bag over on SPEED last week. :D I think it was the fact I was critical of his boy Randy.
 
Re: Open Wheel Racing 2010...He's baaack...He's gone...

Timothy A said:
Robin Miller finally printed one of my emails in his email bag over on SPEED last week. :D I think it was the fact I was critical of his boy Randy.
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Well done! I assume your email was about TGBB and RB needing to go and long live the scream of the Cosworths?
 
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