Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

[CLS]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

A very interesting article about how the facilities were designed to promote record-setting performances. The pool, for example, is quite technologically advanced:



The velodrome (bicycle races) was designed with similar attention to technical details, as was the track.

With regard to the swimming pool, it seems to me like I've heard of Olympic pools being designed with some of these featues many years ago, but I'm not sure. In any case, I think that they should have mentioned a result that's IMO a lot more important than whether the pool design contributes to world records. Most of the changes that are mentioned make the races more fair. It used to be that having being in one of the inner lanes (usually four or five) was a significant advantage for some of the reasons mentioned in the article -- generally calmer water. Of course since the fastest qualifiers -- most likely the fastest swimmers -- usually get one of the inside lanes, it's not fair to say that getting one of the inner lanes was the main reason for a swimmer winning a race, and I don't know for sure if the lane distribution of winners has changed at all. But I do think that it's fair to say that some of these changes make the swimming pool a lot more level, so to speak .

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Regarding the debate about the "greatest" Olympian....

I'm not arguing against Phelps; certainly he belongs in the top 5.

perhaps we can parse the discussion by talking about the "greatest" Olympic performance?

For me, one of the greatest performances is probably Jesse Owens at Berlin 1936. Here's a man who was a second-class citizen in his own country traveling to the center of hostile territory against a national team that expressly set out to prove Aryan superiority. No doubt he must have had mixed feelings about the weird, paradoxical situation he was in, and may not have felt all that safe where he was, yet he was able to set aside all nerves and resentments and engage in the performance of his lifetime to earn 4 gold medals, a feat that was not duplicated until Carl Lewis did it in 1984.

A nice side note to the story was that one of Owens' competitors in the long jump was a German jumper who gave Owens a tip that helped him jump further.

 

[state of hockey]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

http://mckaylaisnotimpressed.tumblr.com/

 

[CLS]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Regarding the debate about the "greatest" Olympian....

I'm not arguing against Phelps; certainly he belongs in the top 5.

perhaps we can parse the discussion by talking about the "greatest" Olympic performance?

For me, one of the greatest performances is probably Jesse Owens at Berlin 1936. Here's a man who was a second-class citizen in his own country traveling to the center of hostile territory against a national team that expressly set out to prove Aryan superiority. No doubt he must have had mixed feelings about the weird, paradoxical situation he was in, and may not have felt all that safe where he was, yet he was able to set aside all nerves and resentments and engage in the performance of his lifetime to earn 4 gold medals, a feat that was not duplicated until Carl Lewis did it in 1984.

A nice side note to the story was that one of Owens' competitors in the long jump was a German jumper who gave Owens a tip that helped him jump further.

And of course there’s a sad side note to the story was that one of the reasons that Owens was on one of the relay teams is that he replaced a runner who was Jewish.

And regarding Owens, who knows what would have happened if there had been Olympics in 1940 and/or 1944? Perhaps Bolt would have been chasing (pun ) Owens, not Lewis.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

And of course there’s a sad side note to the story was that one of the reasons that Owens was on one of the relay teams is that he replaced a runner who was Jewish.

And regarding Owens, who knows what would have happened if there had been Olympics in 1940 and/or 1944? Perhaps Bolt would have been chasing (pun ) Owens, not Lewis.

When I was a freshman in high school, Owens STILL held the natonal 100 yard dash record (it had been tied many times) 35 or more years after he set it.

The touching story about Lutz Long, the German broadjumper (who was killed in the war) giving Jesse advice that helped him win his gold may be a legend. There's good evidence the incident never happened.

Similarly, the "Hitler refused to meet with Jesse" legend has been denied repeatedly, by Jesse himself. Hitler had taken to personally congratulating German gold medal winners. The IOC told him either you greet all gold medal winners or you greet none. He stopped.

It's true, Marty Glickman was scheduled to run in the relay and was evidently scratched in order to please the Nazis.

Jesse's greatest performance, and certainly the greatest in the history of track and field, came in th 1935 Big Ten meet, where he set 3 world records and tied a fourth--in 45 minutes!

I'm reminded of the line from "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance," "when the legend become fact, print the legend."

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

It's true, Marty Glickman was scheduled to run in the relay and was evidently scratched in order to please the Nazis.

My memory of Marty Glickman is as a NY sportscaster who made almost as many mistakes as Ralph Kiner did. I think he was famous for his descriptions of Alex Webster's short runs as a fullback for the NY Gaints often describing it as "running for a couple of 3 yards".

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

My memory of Marty Glickman is as a NY sportscaster who made almost as many mistakes as Ralph Kiner did. I think he was famous for his descriptions of Alex Webster's short runs as a fullback for the NY Gaints often describing it as "running for a couple of 3 yards".

IIRC long time IOC major domo Avery Brundage (not exactly a humanitarian when it came to Jews and blacks) was responsible for scratching Glickman. Note: I actually rode in an elevator with Brundage in Sapporo. He had just ruled that Austrian "amateur" downhiller Karl Schranz was not going to compete. The Austrians, BTW, set up an A-frame chalet where weary press types could relax with a beverage, a snack and listen to Mr. Swoboda play the zither.

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

While I suppose it's possible to dope and not get caught these days, the remarks of the head of the world anti doping agency when one of our coaches accused that chinese swimmer of it are pretty strong.

So to put Bolt's accomplishments in perspective. 7 of the top 10 men's 200 times ever run belong to him. In the 100, 3 of the 4 top times ever run belong to him.( I didn't check past the top 4 times so he might have run more of the top 10) Bolt is the first man to hold both the 100 metres and 200 metres world records. Along with his teammates, he also set the world record in the 4×100 metres relay. He is the reigning Olympic champion in these three events, and a FIVE TIME World and five-time Olympic gold medalist. He is also the first man ever to achieve the "double double" by winning 100 m and 200 m titles at consecutive Olympics (2008 & 2012). When he was 15 years old his time in the 200 was faster than the top American sprinter of the day Maurice Greene.

His 2009 record breaking margin for 100 m, from 9.69 (his own previous world record) to 9.58, is the highest since the start of fully automatic time measurements.
His awards include the IAAF World Athlete of the Year, Track & Field Athlete of the Year, and Laureus Sportsman of the Year.
Staying on top in track is exceedingly difficult and carl lewis should know all about doping shouldn't he.

As Tony Kornheiser of ESPN said, " Bolt is a freak, he's the only guy to run 80 meters, turn around and wave to the crowd and still set a world record. He's the best athlete I have ever seen"

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

While I suppose it's possible to dope and not get caught these days, the remarks of the head of the world anti doping agency when one of our coaches accused that chinese swimmer of it are pretty strong.

So to put Bolt's accomplishments in perspective. 7 of the top 10 men's 200 times ever run belong to him. In the 100, 3 of the 4 top times ever run belong to him.( I didn't check past the top 4 times so he might have run more of the top 10) Bolt is the first man to hold both the 100 metres and 200 metres world records. Along with his teammates, he also set the world record in the 4×100 metres relay. He is the reigning Olympic champion in these three events, and a FIVE TIME World and five-time Olympic gold medalist. He is also the first man ever to achieve the "double double" by winning 100 m and 200 m titles at consecutive Olympics (2008 & 2012). When he was 15 years old his time in the 200 was faster than the top American sprinter of the day Maurice Greene.

His 2009 record breaking margin for 100 m, from 9.69 (his own previous world record) to 9.58, is the highest since the start of fully automatic time measurements.
His awards include the IAAF World Athlete of the Year, Track & Field Athlete of the Year, and Laureus Sportsman of the Year.
Staying on top in track is exceedingly difficult and carl lewis should know all about doping shouldn't he.

As Tony Kornheiser of ESPN said, " Bolt is a freak, he's the only guy to run 80 meters, turn around and wave to the crowd and still set a world record. He's the best athlete I have ever seen"

Bolt is a freak of nature that comes along every so often. It occurs in lots of sports and lots of events. If it was just him I do not think anyone would be suspicious. But when multiple members of one team suddenly become incredibly better, faster, stronger than the rest of the world-many begin to wonder. it happened with East German women in swimming and track, it has been alluded to with Chinese athletes (mostly women in track and swimming), and it has been brought up in regard to the Jamaican sprinters. Questions have arisen in many sports-baseball, football, horse racing, etc.
As a medical professional do I think Usain Bolt is clean? Yes, he is probably just that good. Do I think that the entire Jamaican program is clean? I reserve judgement. Pretty hard to believe that they can have several runners who would qualify as freaks of nature while other countries do not. Do I have the same reservations about the American program? Yes. The Kenyans and Ethiopians? Who knows. I have seen far too many cases of enhancement in sports over the years. Just because current testing has not shown anything illegal does not mean something has not been done. Those who want to try to beat the system can be very inventive and may never be caught. The rewards for winning and performing are just too tempting. Fame and monetary gain can make people take incredible risks. Very few think about the consequences later in life. There have been several studies of the East German women swimmers years later that have highlighted their increased mortality and morbidity. I would prefer to just sit back and enjoy what may well be the greatest performances i have ever seen.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Bolt is a freak of nature that comes along every so often. It occurs in lots of sports and lots of events. If it was just him I do not think anyone would be suspicious. But when multiple members of one team suddenly become incredibly better, faster, stronger than the rest of the world-many begin to wonder. it happened with East German women in swimming and track, it has been alluded to with Chinese athletes (mostly women in track and swimming), and it has been brought up in regard to the Jamaican sprinters. Questions have arisen in many sports-baseball, football, horse racing, etc.
As a medical professional do I think Usain Bolt is clean? Yes, he is probably just that good. Do I think that the entire Jamaican program is clean? I reserve judgement. Pretty hard to believe that they can have several runners who would qualify as freaks of nature while other countries do not. Do I have the same reservations about the American program? Yes. The Kenyans and Ethiopians? Who knows. I have seen far too many cases of enhancement in sports over the years. Just because current testing has not shown anything illegal does not mean something has not been done. Those who want to try to beat the system can be very inventive and may never be caught. The rewards for winning and performing are just too tempting. Fame and monetary gain can make people take incredible risks. Very few think about the consequences later in life. There have been several studies of the East German women swimmers years later that have highlighted their increased mortality and morbidity. I would prefer to just sit back and enjoy what may well be the greatest performances i have ever seen.

Cheating is much more scientific these days, isn't it? Seems like it's a race between the cheaters and the enforcers, and we all assume the enforcers are always playing catchup. There was a time when the cheating was not so subtle. The Press "sisters," who accumulated 5 gold and 1 silver between them for the Soviet Union, were men. And they stopped competing when the various world bodies said they were going to begin gender testing. "Das vidanya."

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

It does seem odd that a country with all of 5 people can produce so many sprinters at the top heap basically out of nowhere.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

As a medical professional do I think Usain Bolt is clean? Yes, he is probably just that good. Do I think that the entire Jamaican program is clean? I reserve judgement. Pretty hard to believe that they can have several runners who would qualify as freaks of nature while other countries do not.

It's the yams! They said so on TV!

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Cheating is much more scientific these days, isn't it? Seems like it's a race between the cheaters and the enforcers, and we all assume the enforcers are always playing catchup. There was a time when the cheating was not so subtle. The Press "sisters," who accumulated 5 gold and 1 silver between them for the Soviet Union, were men. And they stopped competing when the various world bodies said they were going to begin gender testing. "Das vidanya."

The rewards are just so great that much as I hate to say it, it could really pay to cheat in whatever way possible. remember Lasse Viren the Finnish long distance runner? He would fade from view for 4 years-just plain disappear. Only to suddenly show up and run the fastest 5000 and 10,000 ( and in one case almost win the marathon). And he did this more than once. He too was considered freakish-but was he really? or was he finding something extra that worked for him? I sure wondered at the time what his hematocrit was at race time.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

It's the yams! They said so on TV!

For me it's oysters. Last night I ate a dozen (but only 8 seemed to work)

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

The rewards are just so great that much as I hate to say it, it could really pay to cheat in whatever way possible. remember Lasse Viren the Finnish long distance runner? He would fade from view for 4 years-just plain disappear. Only to suddenly show up and run the fastest 5000 and 10,000 ( and in one case almost win the marathon). And he did this more than once. He too was considered freakish-but was he really? or was he finding something extra that worked for him? I sure wondered at the time what his hematocrit was at race time.

Blood doping.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

It does seem odd that a country with all of 5 people can produce so many sprinters at the top heap basically out of nowhere.

We have the same sneaking hunch that thinks aren't Kosher when a college football or basketball program suddenly finds itself nationally prominent, don't we? Remember Dana Kirk? He was the basketball coach at Memphis State, and during his tenure they were very, very good. Yet during his 11 or 12 years there, not a single black player got a degree. Not one. Sorta makes you wonder about those admissions standards, doesn't it?

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

We have the same sneaking hunch that thinks aren't Kosher when a college football or basketball program suddenly finds itself nationally prominent, don't we? Remember Dana Kirk? He was the basketball coach at Memphis State, and during his tenure they were very, very good. Yet during his 11 or 12 years there, not a single black player got a degree. Not one. Sorta makes you wonder about those admissions standards, doesn't it?

Allen Iverson anyone?

 

[manurespreader]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Bolt is a freak of nature that comes along every so often. It occurs in lots of sports and lots of events. If it was just him I do not think anyone would be suspicious. But when multiple members of one team suddenly become incredibly better, faster, stronger than the rest of the world-many begin to wonder. it happened with East German women in swimming and track, it has been alluded to with Chinese athletes (mostly women in track and swimming), and it has been brought up in regard to the Jamaican sprinters. Questions have arisen in many sports-baseball, football, horse racing, etc.
As a medical professional do I think Usain Bolt is clean? Yes, he is probably just that good. Do I think that the entire Jamaican program is clean? I reserve judgement. Pretty hard to believe that they can have several runners who would qualify as freaks of nature while other countries do not. Do I have the same reservations about the American program? Yes. The Kenyans and Ethiopians? Who knows. I have seen far too many cases of enhancement in sports over the years. Just because current testing has not shown anything illegal does not mean something has not been done. Those who want to try to beat the system can be very inventive and may never be caught. The rewards for winning and performing are just too tempting. Fame and monetary gain can make people take incredible risks. Very few think about the consequences later in life. There have been several studies of the East German women swimmers years later that have highlighted their increased mortality and morbidity. I would prefer to just sit back and enjoy what may well be the greatest performances i have ever seen.

well said. I remember how much I looked forward to Ben Johnson's 200 and how disappointed I was when he was dirty. Same with lewis. Same with lance armstrong too for that matter. It's just my opinion of course, but Bolt makes them all Poseurs.I was able to see one of his workouts a couple of years ago and it was as jaw dropping as his times.

For me it's oysters. Last night I ate a dozen (but only 8 seemed to work)

All this time I thought it was for the libido.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Lewis was busted for doping?

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Official XXX Summer Olympiad: London 2012- Take II

Lewis was busted for doping?

I also thought Armstrong was only accused, never any proof...