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Official Thread of the Leftover League

Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

Hey, I just realized: the world is coming to an end in December 2012 anyway, so none of this will ever happen.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

I guess one benefit is we shed ourselves of the pompous private schools.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

Jimjamesak said:
Actually any University worth the money you pay it can have it's classes conducted online for the most part, especially State universities where connections are subsidized. You want it in a simple way, it's called Blackboard, a textbook, and a coaching who makes sure their players are attending class even when on the road. UAA and UAF have been doing this for almost 15 years with few problems. If professors aren't willing to work with the athletic department on things like this then you have bigger problems.
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The problem isn't the availability of online software. It's whether or not you can put together a complete schedule of classes that offer an online component for the affected athletes. In most cases professors have the right to choose whether or not they will offer an online component to their classes. Also, as a faculty member, I can verify that you already get considerable gripping amongst many faculty when student athletes miss extended time for championship tournaments. That gripping is only going to intensify in many cases if significant additional time is missed for regular season games. Some faculty are sports fans, but many are not. In many cases you are going to find faculty who are not going to be open to and supportive of hockey players missing a week of classes so they can stay in Alaska to play the two Alaska schools on consecutive weekends. And those faculty aren't going to change they way they teach, such as adding online components, to make life easier for players who are suddenly missing even more class time than they have in the past so they can spend a week in Alaska.

I know the Alaska schools deal with extended trips to the lower 48 fairly frequently, that is a reality for the Alaska schools in all sports. Alaska faculty probably for the most part accept this as a reality of living in a remote location, and make allowances for it. But most of the schools in the lower 48 don't deal with regular travel to Alaska or Hawaii, a statement that is true of all the D-I hockey schools, and many of their faculty will likely be unsupportive of such an arrangement if both Alaska schools end up in the same conference. And those faculty don't view this failure to work with the athletic department on an issue like this as indicative of a bigger problem. If this were to happen, they would view the fact that the athletic department was asking them to do it as THE problem. I've run into many faculty who feel that sports should not be part of a university, those faculty would very much disagree with your last statement.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

ecbrevik said:
The problem isn't the availability of online software. It's whether or not you can put together a complete schedule of classes that offer an online component for the affected athletes. In most cases professors have the right to choose whether or not they will offer an online component to their classes. Also, as a faculty member, I can verify that you already get considerable gripping amongst many faculty when student athletes miss extended time for championship tournaments. That gripping is only going to intensify in many cases if significant additional time is missed for regular season games. Some faculty are sports fans, but many are not. In many cases you are going to find faculty who are not going to be open to and supportive of hockey players missing a week of classes so they can stay in Alaska to play the two Alaska schools on consecutive weekends. And those faculty aren't going to change they way they teach, such as adding online components, to make life easier for players who are suddenly missing even more class time than they have in the past so they can spend a week in Alaska.

I know the Alaska schools deal with extended trips to the lower 48 fairly frequently, that is a reality for the Alaska schools in all sports. Alaska faculty probably for the most part accept this as a reality of living in a remote location, and make allowances for it. But most of the schools in the lower 48 don't deal with regular travel to Alaska or Hawaii, a statement that is true of all the D-I hockey schools, and many of their faculty will likely be unsupportive of such an arrangement if both Alaska schools end up in the same conference. And those faculty don't view this failure to work with the athletic department on an issue like this as indicative of a bigger problem. If this were to happen, they would view the fact that the athletic department was asking them to do it as THE problem. I've run into many faculty who feel that sports should not be part of a university, those faculty would very much disagree with your last statement.
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Absolutely true. I know of faculty who will not give excused absences to athletes who miss classes for travel. And some of them have a number of absences that, if exceeded, results in failing the class. It is entirely possible that a trip that required them to leave no later than Thursday and then miss all of the following week could, all by itself, result in failing a class.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

Apologies if somebody mentioned this earlier, I don't remember seeing it and I'm not gonna search through the whole thread.

Assuming Notre Dame bolts, WMU stays with the leftovers, and UAH joins up with them, why not just use the 12-team CCHA's cluster format, or a modified version? Have 6 pairs of rivalry partners (obviously UAA and UAF would be one pair), one rotating rivalry pair you play home and away, and then split up the Alaska trips between the remaining pairs. Of the 10 Lower-48 teams, only the two rotating rivalry partners would play both Alaska schools in the same season. Everybody else would only have to play one. Yeah, everybody would have to come up here every year, but the doubling up would only be every five years. Do both over a break, have one start your season and one end it, or whatever else works best.

Let's say NMU and MTU are another rivalry pair. In the first cycle, both play UAF and UAA home and away. Second cycle, have NMU host UAF and play at UAA, while MTU plays at UAF and hosts UAA. Switch off for the next three cycles, that makes 5 years and 6 trips to Alaska.

If you don't want anyone to come up here more than once a year, then just drop the rotating rivals and go with a 24 game schedule. Half of the Lower-48 teams play at UAF, half at UAA.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

ecbrevik said:
The problem isn't the availability of online software. It's whether or not you can put together a complete schedule of classes that offer an online component for the affected athletes. In most cases professors have the right to choose whether or not they will offer an online component to their classes. Also, as a faculty member, I can verify that you already get considerable gripping amongst many faculty when student athletes miss extended time for championship tournaments. That gripping is only going to intensify in many cases if significant additional time is missed for regular season games. Some faculty are sports fans, but many are not. In many cases you are going to find faculty who are not going to be open to and supportive of hockey players missing a week of classes so they can stay in Alaska to play the two Alaska schools on consecutive weekends. And those faculty aren't going to change they way they teach, such as adding online components, to make life easier for players who are suddenly missing even more class time than they have in the past so they can spend a week in Alaska.

I know the Alaska schools deal with extended trips to the lower 48 fairly frequently, that is a reality for the Alaska schools in all sports. Alaska faculty probably for the most part accept this as a reality of living in a remote location, and make allowances for it. But most of the schools in the lower 48 don't deal with regular travel to Alaska or Hawaii, a statement that is true of all the D-I hockey schools, and many of their faculty will likely be unsupportive of such an arrangement if both Alaska schools end up in the same conference. And those faculty don't view this failure to work with the athletic department on an issue like this as indicative of a bigger problem. If this were to happen, they would view the fact that the athletic department was asking them to do it as THE problem. I've run into many faculty who feel that sports should not be part of a university, those faculty would very much disagree with your last statement.
Click to expand...

Case in point: Tech has many faculty members who think the hockey program should've been axed years ago. Unsurprisingly, most of them work in the Social Sciences and Humanities departments, which are generally afterthoughts at MTU.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

MavsFan said:
Absolutely true. I know of faculty who will not give excused absences to athletes who miss classes for travel. And some of them have a number of absences that, if exceeded, results in failing the class. It is entirely possible that a trip that required them to leave no later than Thursday and then miss all of the following week could, all by itself, result in failing a class.
Click to expand...
At most schools, this shouldn't be a problem. At both universities I have worked at absences for sports are school excused, which means the faculty member must, by school policy, make allowances for the work to be made up. There are, however, some exceptions. Lab classes can be very difficult to make up, and I know more than one student athlete working on a science degree who has eventually been forced to choose between sports and their chosen major.

What those allowances are, and how easy it is for the student athlete to meet them, is a whole different issue. How the student athlete makes up for lost class time comes under the perview of the faculty member. Some require that ALL missed assignments and tests be completed PRIOR to the student athlete leaving on their trip, even if all the materials for the assignement/test have not yet been covered in class. Some have online components to their classes that make it easier for the student athletes to keep up while on the road, some don't. Those who don't are unlikely to add an online component to accommodate a situation such as the athletes spending a week in Alaska. In short, the faculty members have a major say in how easy it is for the student athletes to travel, and good luck getting all the faculty from any university all on the same page on this issue (Or any issue, for that matter. Sorry, many years of frustrated sitting in deadlocked faculty meetings leaking out here.)
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

Reading through the thread upon returning to town, I found it heartwarming that the posters were coming up with multiple ways for the least financially sound hockey schools to save ALL of the "left-over" school programs. It would be great, but I don't see it happening.

I also found interesting the assumption that the upper peninsula Michigan schools would jump at the opportunity to join the WCHA's remaining teams. Isn't it far more likely MTU would want to join what's left of the CCHA?

While having a full scholarship team might be enticing, would Robert Morris, Niagara, and perhaps others really want to switch to a CCHA which is devoid of its top teams? (Yes, I know three of the remaining CCHA teams have won National Championships, but not recently.)

What seems most likely is:

1) Notre Dame and Western leave for Hockey East (or the new league) as a package deal.
2) St. Cloud, MinnState, BSU, MTU, LSSU, FSU, NMU, BG create a new 8 team league. UAH gets an invite only if one of the 8 decides to drop hockey or another team (Robert Morris/Niagara) wants to join.
3) The Alaska schools are left out of the new league. I don't see any way they would want one, let alone both Alaska schools in their league. If the new "super" league which has the most to gain by playing an Alaskan school doesn't want them, why would the left-overs? (This is not a knock on Alaska...I'd hate to see them not be a part of a league.)
 
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Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

How does Hockey East get saddled with Western Michigan? They're much more likely to poach a New England team from the AHA or ECAC than take the Broncos. For that matter, has Hockey East formally invited anyone to join the conference? I think the idea of Notre Dame going to Hockey East has just been used for leverage. This is no knock on WMU or ND, but we're a bus league comprised of all New England teams...adding schools from Indiana and Michigan is *slightly* out of our footprint.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

Priceless said:
How does Hockey East get saddled with Western Michigan? They're much more likely to poach a New England team from the AHA or ECAC than take the Broncos. For that matter, has Hockey East formally invited anyone to join the conference? I think the idea of Notre Dame going to Hockey East has just been used for leverage. This is no knock on WMU or ND, but we're a bus league comprised of all New England teams...adding schools from Indiana and Michigan is *slightly* out of our footprint.
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I'm trying to figure that out myself.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

It would make as much sense for HE to add UAH as it would WMU. Although if they added UAH they would at least get a warm place to travel to in the winter.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

Priceless said:
How does Hockey East get saddled with Western Michigan? They're much more likely to poach a New England team from the AHA or ECAC than take the Broncos. For that matter, has Hockey East formally invited anyone to join the conference? I think the idea of Notre Dame going to Hockey East has just been used for leverage. This is no knock on WMU or ND, but we're a bus league comprised of all New England teams...adding schools from Indiana and Michigan is *slightly* out of our footprint.
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I'm also trying to figure out why, from the "Superconference's" perspective, WMU would be seen as preferrable to a school like SCSU. I think the numbers back up SCSU as the better choice:

SCSU plays in a 5,763 seat arena and has been competative in the WCHA over the last several seasons, last year notwithstanding. SCSU has posted winning records in 8 of the last 10 years and has NCAA tourny appearances in 6 of those years. The Huskies have made 8 NCAA tourny appearances in the program's D-I history. The Huskies have posted a 0.542 overall record in their time as a member of the WCHA.

WMU plays in a 3,667 seat arena and has not been particularly competative in the CCHA over the last several seasons, with the exception of last year. The Broncos have posted winning records in two of the last 10 years with 1 NCAA tourny appearance, and they have just lost the coach that lead them to that tourny. The Broncos have 3 NCAA tourny appearances in the program's D-I history and have posted a 0.480 overall record in their time as a member of the CCHA.

St. Cloud is also right outside the Minneapolis-St. Paul metro at 65 miles from Minneapolis. While I understand the primary school of the MSP metro is UMN, St. Cloud is as close as the new "Superconference" can come to a presence in the MSP metro. Kalamazoo is 140 miles from Detroit. I suppose WMU does give the new conference a presence in Michigan, a rich hockey state, and a team close to Miami and Notre Dame, if the Irish end up coming to the new conference. Duluth and, to some extent, UND already give the new conference a presence in hockey-rich Minnesota.

If the new "Superconference" is trying to assemble the most competative group of programs they can, SCSU just seems like a better choice than WMU. The only advantage I see to bringing in WMU is that foothold in Michigan.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

ecbrevik said:
I'm also trying to figure out why, from the "Superconference's" perspective, WMU would be seen as preferrable to a school like SCSU.
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Supposedly it's because Notre Dame and Miami want a shorter bus trip to balance out their travel everywhere else.
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Supposedly it's because Notre Dame and Miami want a shorter bus trip to balance out their travel everywhere else.
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That would make sense. But if that is the case, it doesn't seem to make much sense on Miami's part to commit to the new conference when Notre Dame and WMU haven't. At this point, Miami could well end up in a conference where every single conference game is a flight. If Notre Dame and Western don't end up in the new conference, will it become an unstable conference from day 1 due to Miami's travel expenses?
 
Re: Official Thread of the Leftover League

ecbrevik said:
If Notre Dame and Western don't end up in the new conference, will it become an unstable conference from day 1 due to Miami's travel expenses?
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I hope so. :D

WMU's rumored inclusion says a lot about the amount of control the western SuperDuper schools were willing to cede to get Notre Dame. Otherwise, they would have convinced St. Cloud to come along, and still might if Notre Dame goes east or stays in the CCHA (as unlikely as that is.)
 
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