Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Has anyone had a chance to read (or read a good review of) Maddow's book, "Drift"? The NYT's superficial review is here. I think it's one of those topics that may divide people in a way that cuts across partisanship (obviously this particular book and author will not).

The basic thesis is: how, when and why did Congress lose the de facto power of approving (and checking) military action, and what are the implications of this?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

The basic thesis is: how, when and why did Congress lose the de facto power of approving (and checking) military action, and what are the implications of this?

Not saying its right, wrong or indifferent...but isn't congressional approval a nice to have? Isn't president commander and chief?

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Not saying its right, wrong or indifferent...but isn't congressional approval a nice to have? Isn't president commander and chief?

The Congress shall have Power...To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Not saying its right, wrong or indifferent...but isn't congressional approval a nice to have? Isn't president commander and chief?

Article I Section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the power to declare war. The President, as Commander-in-Chief, has the power to decide how to prosecute the war.

Congress also controls the purse strings, so it has the effective power to defund a war and thus stop it, though I'm not aware that Congress has ever done that since the political blowback would be significant.

There have been two "drifts." Congress doesn't formally declare war anymore (the last formal declaration of war by Congress was on June 5, 1942, against three eastern European governments allied with the axis powers). And we have taken to calling things "military operations" now, instead of "wars," so the courts have interpreted Congress' role as merely being a paymaster.

Another problem is we don't have "peace treaties" anymore, either. Korea has been under a cease-fire for 50 years. So military commitment is unending.

All of this works to truncate public discussion in the lead-up to war. It's not just a power grab by the presidents, either. Congress has used it to shield themselves from having to actually go on record both in debate and in voting for war. The result is it is much easier for us to go to war, nobody is held accountable for it, and of course once soldiers are in harm's way it is political suicide to question the legitimacy or usefulness of the war.

Wikipedia has an atypically insightful article on the War Powers Resolution of 1973.

 

[French Rage]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Wonder what Jesse and Al think about this: http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/rs...012/04/01/gIQArXXkpS_mobile.mobile&cid=961405

As an alumnus of that school, I'm cool with it. And it wouldn't be a WaPo article about TJHSST if they didn't manage to sneak some mentions of low minority enrollment there. Of course, it's a magnet school where students across four counties have to take two rounds of blind admissions tests to get in, so if you want a school with the best students working together that is considered the best in the nation you should be happy you get that from a blind test and stop *****ing about demographics. And if you want to solve that problem, you shouldn't screw with the admissions process, but you should make a better outreach to minority students in elementary/middle school so that they are encouraged and prepared for the admissions process, which it seems exactly like what this kid is doing and it's great that he is. (Also, and maybe this is easy to say as a middle class white kid from Prince William Country, but as the one teacher pointed out, race simply matters less at TJ; when you have kids who had to apply to be there and want to be there, you have people more wanting to work together to get the most out of something they already put a great deal of effort into and less wanting to separate into racial cliques and gangs.)

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Everyone knows that Jackson and Sharpton are racists.

I've heard it maintained, in all serious and without a hint of irony, that only white people (i.e., "people of pallor") can be "racist" because "racism" only occurs from the dominant majority against a minority. Ergo, by definition, no minority ever can be "racist." The worst accusation you can make against minorities is merely "tribalism" or favoring their own people over all others, and that is cast as always containing something good, which is watching out for each other in a dangerous world.

How this explains their lack of outrage over "black on black" crime? it doesn't, it sidesteps the question.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

The Congress shall have Power...To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years; To provide and maintain a Navy...

That about covers it.

I'm guessing the title of commander and chief has swamped original intentions.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

I've heard it maintained, in all serious and without a hint of irony, that only white people (i.e., "people of pallor") can be "racist" because "racism" only occurs from the dominant majority against a minority. Ergo, by definition, no minority ever can be "racist."

I've heard a different argument misrepresented as the one you are citing (though I'm not saying you are doing that). That argument is that although all groups tend to favor "their own" and form negatives stereotypes against "the other," when mixed with differences in social status and power that works out as a net positive for majorities and a net negative for minorities.

That actually seems like a pretty reasonable argument to me.

Anybody who went to a mixed race high school knows that everybody's racist.

 

[joecct]

I've heard a different argument misrepresented as the one you are citing (though I'm not saying you are doing that). That argument is that although all groups tend to favor "their own" and form negatives stereotypes against "the other," when mixed with differences in social status and power that works out as a net positive for majorities and a net negative for minorities.

That actually seems like e pretty reasonable argument to me.

Anybody who went to a mixed race high school knows that everybody's racist.

Just look at the lunch room seating. Balkans.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

I've heard a different argument misrepresented as the one you are citing (though I'm not saying you are doing that). That argument is that although all groups tend to favor "their own" and form negatives stereotypes against "the other," when mixed with differences in social status and power that works out as a net positive for majorities and a net negative for minorities.

That actually seems like a pretty reasonable argument to me.

Anybody who went to a mixed race high school knows that everybody's racist.

I've heard MANY people make the EXACT argument that FreshFish mentioned (only people of the color in power can be racist). Of course, most of them have been college undergrads, so they may well be misrepresenting someone else's argument, but it is definitely not true that people do not make the argument. These people would say that even if President Obama started selectively mistreating or discriminating against his white employees, that's not actually racism because the white people still somehow really hold the power in that situation.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Of course, most of them have been college undergrads

College undergrads do not count as people.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

As an alumnus of that school, I'm cool with it. And it wouldn't be a WaPo article about TJHSST if they didn't manage to sneak some mentions of low minority enrollment there. Of course, it's a magnet school where students across four counties have to take two rounds of blind admissions tests to get in, so if you want a school with the best students working together that is considered the best in the nation you should be happy you get that from a blind test and stop *****ing about demographics. And if you want to solve that problem, you shouldn't screw with the admissions process, but you should make a better outreach to minority students in elementary/middle school so that they are encouraged and prepared for the admissions process, which it seems exactly like what this kid is doing and it's great that he is. (Also, and maybe this is easy to say as a middle class white kid from Prince William Country, but as the one teacher pointed out, race simply matters less at TJ; when you have kids who had to apply to be there and want to be there, you have people more wanting to work together to get the most out of something they already put a great deal of effort into and less wanting to separate into racial cliques and gangs.)

You've convinced me. The problem is with the "equality of outcomes" crowd that just can't resist putting their thumbs on the scale and imputing racism wherever an outcome doesn't meet their exacting standards.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

The problem is with the "equality of outcomes" crowd

is that they don't exist except as a rhetorical device.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

I've heard MANY people make the EXACT argument that FreshFish mentioned (only people of the color in power can be racist). Of course, most of them have been college undergrads, so they may well be misrepresenting someone else's argument, but it is definitely not true that people do not make the argument. These people would say that even if President Obama started selectively mistreating or discriminating against his white employees, that's not actually racism because the white people still somehow really hold the power in that situation.

Wait a minute, someone that actually understands what racism actually is?! It's about time. I wasted about 2 hours of my life trying to explain this to a troll the other day.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Tom Wolfe published two essays in book form years ago. One, "Radical Chic," is an hysterical look at the racial attitudes of the liberal 1% in NYC. It has to do with Leonard Bernstein preparing to host a gathering in his apartment. His guests? The Black Panthers and New York glitterati, Barbara Walters and such. Anyway, he's concerned with the menu. Will the Panthers like the salted nut balls coated in Roquefort? Should he remove the silver frames from the photos on his Bosendorfer and replace them with cheaper frames? Should he have non-black waitstaff? He finally decides on Puerto Ricans and cracks wise about starting the "Spic and Span" employment service. Lacerating. And amazingly funny. A very short read and well worth the time.

My point? That racism (or at least "improper" racial attitudes) aren't confined to one party, or one group, or one end of the political spectrum.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

is that they don't exist except as a rhetorical device.

Tell that to academics who have argued for exactly that. It's not enough to have proportionality in admissions. You've got to have proportionality in degrees conferred, too. Now someone who poses as being as smart as you do, should know that. So denying it is some sort of "rhetorical device." The concept is real. And so are the people who advocate it. And you know it. I'd imagine presidential friend Bill Ayers, for one, believes in it.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Tell that to academics who have argued for exactly that. It's not enough to have proportionality in admissions. You've got to have proportionality in degrees conferred, too. Now someone who poses as being as smart as you do, should know that. So denying it is some sort of "rhetorical device." The concept is real. And so are the people who advocate it. And you know it. I'd imagine presidential friend Bill Ayers, for one, believes in it.

Fight racism with racism. Typical short-minded people. -_-

Actually, at RPI, you must fill out a form every time you hire a white male over a "minority".

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

is that they don't exist except as a rhetorical device.

oh, really? what about all those "disparate impact" lawsuits?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Fight racism with racism.

This is what's done today and it sucks. By taking acts that a Sharpton takes as racist...which often is jumping to conclusions...many on the right say that blacks are racist and that makes their own racism worse.

Its the same ole story of extremists trying to overblow stories to make it appear the other side is wrong, evil or something else bad...and then they feel they have the right to be behave badly also. Same garbage that was going on with overseas muslim extremism and domestic conservatism. If there is solid evidence the police were racist...fix it. Otherwise, enough of black panthers and gobs of conservatives blabbing about racism already.

 

[XYZ]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Same garbage that was going on with overseas muslim extremism and domestic conservatism.

You really believe those two groups are on equal footing?

And pointing out that Al Sharpton is a racist doesn't make anyone's supposed racism worse. It's a statement of fact. If I call some jackhole in the Klan a racist does that mean it makes my hatred of white people worse? By your logic it has to, no?