Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Speaking of the payroll tax, when do you think that's going back up? I have my money on never.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Speaking of the payroll tax, when do you think that's going back up? I have my money on never.

I'll take that bet and say 2013. If [redacted] gets re-elected, all taxes will go up. There aren't enough "rich" people around to pay for His Majesty's "free" goodies even if one were to tax the "rich" people at 100% of income.

I understand [redacted] has a new tax simplification plan all ready for January 2013:

1) How much did you make last year?
2) Send it in.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Serious question: Does either side actually have a genuine idea about dealing with debt other than by growing the denominator (GDP)?

Paul Ryan actually has some good ideas on this score. The biggest problem with the right is that they can't follow through and implement their own good ideas, the biggest problem of the left is their willful denial of basic human nature: people always want more than they can afford, and if you tell them something is "free" because "it is from the government" they always will consume more if it than originally projected.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Paul Ryan actually has some good ideas on this score. The biggest problem with the right is that they can't follow through and implement their own good ideas, the biggest problem of the left is their willful denial of basic human nature: people always want more than they can afford, and if you tell them something is "free" because "it is from the government" they always will consume more if it than originally projected.

His good idea is to balance the budget on the backs of Medicare. Which effectively is a middle class tax increase. Wow, I'm impressed.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

His good idea is to balance the budget on the backs of Medicare. Which effectively is a middle class tax increase. Wow, I'm impressed.

If you aren't even going to read what he actually wrote first-hand, and instead rely merely on someone else's interpretation, there's no point in discussing it.

Besides, aren't you one of those beating the drum for higher taxes? Yet here you deride a tax increase?

Some people here remind me of a person I knew in college who was really vocal about how good Budweiser tasted. The rest of us did not like it. We got so tired of him droning on and on that we decided to have a blind taste test. We got four beers and five glasses and had every one taste them (the five glasses was because we had two beers duplicated and we wanted to find out whether people could at least identify the duplicates as the same beer).

Well our blusterous buddy himself picked Budweiser last, and so we were spared any more on that score.



I'd like to post some excerpts from various people, straight, no gamesmanship, and then let people discuss the contents, assuming that the authors' names were hidden. It seems people are so caught up in labels and sides that you don't see genuine evaluation of what anyone really says these days. There is plenty to criticize on both sides, and from time to time the left actually does come up with a good idea that makes sense when you think through its implications. Usually though the left discusses its intentions, not what actually was enacted, and there is such a disconnect between "what we really meant" and "what the bill actually does" that almost no useful communication occurs.


When the Republicans controlled both Houses of Congress, I said the same thing about them at the time as I say about Democrats now, I'm a non-partisan complainer! It is career politicians that are ruining us, regardless of party. Re-election first, last, and only for them!!




PS regarding our blind taste test, yes, everyone did identify the duplicate beer correctly.

 

[Rover]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Paul Ryan actually has some good ideas on this score. The biggest problem with the right is that they can't follow through and implement their own good ideas, the biggest problem of the left is their willful denial of basic human nature: people always want more than they can afford, and if you tell them something is "free" because "it is from the government" they always will consume more if it than originally projected.

Paul Ryan's ideas are horrible because it mixes generational favoratism with upper income tax breaks.

People born in the 1940's and 1950's caused the fiscal problems we're facing today. As the largest voting demographic since the 70's, they have consistantly voted for sky high services but wanted to pay no taxes. Politicians are a product of their times, hence all the deficit spending to keep both sides of the equation intact. Ryan's budget, for which he should be dragged out into the street and beaten, tells everybody over the age of 55 that you get a free pass and contribute nothing to solving the problem you caused, but everybody younger than that gets to take it in the shorts. Furthermore, the proceeds from the raw deal don't go entirely towards deficit reduction but rather upper income tax cuts - again benefiting some of the same people as wealthier citizens tend to be older.

So, screw that. If I'm going to pay (and I'm willing to); they're going to pay. The only people who get a free pass are the WWII generation, and to have fought in the war you can be no younger than your early 80's. Lets be generous and include the people who grew up during the Great Depression but were a little too young for the war. That's it. Everybody else contributes.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

His good idea is to balance the budget on the backs of Medicare. Which effectively is a middle class tax increase. Wow, I'm impressed.

He's shown more interest in balancing the budget than most if not all of your Dems. I don't agree with everything in his proposals, but they do push the discussion forward, which is more than usually happens.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

I have read it. I've also listened to him speak and give numerous interviews. That's my assessment take it or leave it. But don't accuse me of not reading it just because I came to the same conclusion someone else you disagree with did.

I think the most important thing that could happen right now is for all the Baby Boomers to pay back all the money they stole from the country. With interest.

Then we can move on.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

I have read it. I've also listened to him speak and give numerous interviews. That's my assessment take it or leave it. But don't accuse me of not reading it just because I came to the same conclusion someone else you disagree with did.

I think the most important thing that could happen right now is for all the Baby Boomers to pay back all the money they stole from the country. With interest.

Then we can move on.

You just made a way simplistic summary of his plan, which isn't fair, given that it addresses spending in a variety of ways.

The Boomers haven't stopped giving themselves more, let alone give it back.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

So your Dems pretend. The Reps don't (for the moment assuming your highly partisan opinion is correct). The end game is the same. Neither party has shown the fiscal restraint needed in recent decades. But, I know you could never admit the Dems are part of the problem.

Most of the time you can take potshots at my being a partisan since I am the most liberal poster on the board (though Rover and Major never took the test!) but when it comes to the budget you can take your partisan label and shove it. Last summer and fall, while Washington was playing chicken with the debt ceiling I managed to cobble together a budget that had almost unanimous agreement on the board. The only opponents were the "all tax is theft" crowd. It took aim at the Bush tax cuts and trimmed the Pentagon budget, but it also raised the SS retirement age and plenty of other Democratic sacred cows. I even wrote to my senator (Collins) to pitch the plan but what I got back was gibberish. The answer is that both sides have to give in to get a solution. We used to have this noble ideal called "compromise" but now it is a dirty word. Every time I hear some blowhard in the House talk about the poor not paying taxes, or idiotic remarks like "taxes have to go up across the board" it drives me up the wall. You know why the poor don't the federal income tax? Because they don't have squat to tax! You may as well try to tax rocks because they have about the same amount of money. Every time I hear that it makes people like me even more likely to give up on this bipartisan deal and join the group who wants to forget about the 1990's tax rates. You folks love the 1950's so much? Let's roll tax rates on the top bracket back to 91% and see if you still think the 50's are so great.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Had the GOP remained in power in 2007, current trends may have continued (unlike the spending spree we saw Pelosi going for), thereby leading to a balanced budget.

The causes of the downturn were already in place before the keys were handed over.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Man, when a guy left of Stalin starts asking if you're spending too much, perhaps it's time to reevaluate...

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2...llion-to-the-national-debt-in-his-first-term/

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Man, when a guy left of Stalin starts asking if you're spending too much, perhaps it's time to reevaluate...

http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2...llion-to-the-national-debt-in-his-first-term/

First of all, Cafferty is hardly to the left of Stalin.

Secondly, are you just joking again, because I'll remind you that Congress controls the purse strings.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

First of all, Cafferty is hardly to the left of Stalin.

Secondly, are you just joking again, because I'll remind you that Congress controls the purse strings.

Cafferty? Not a hard lefty?

The more I think about it, the more I'd rather not have our president thumbing his *** while and wasting our time with preposterous bills. Congress may pay the bills, but Obama proposes the budget.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Cafferty? Not a hard lefty?

The more I think about it, the more I'd rather not have our president thumbing his *** while and wasting our time with preposterous bills. Congress may pay the bills, but Obama proposes the budget.

Just wondering, would you say I'm to the left of Stalin?

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Just wondering, would you say I'm to the left of Stalin?

Would you take it as a compliment if I did?

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Would you take it as a compliment if I did?

Considering he was an Communist/Authoritarian who butchered millions of people...um...no.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

You folks love the 1950's so much? Let's roll tax rates on the top bracket back to 91% and see if you still think the 50's are so great.

that's a bit of a technically true yet connotationally-false comparison.

The 91% top marginal rate was enacted in the middle of WW II which was an anomalous time for fiscal policy in many ways.

On an inflation-adjusted basis, it applied only to income above something like $2.65 million, while today we live in an age when people glibly talk about taxing 'millionaires' starting at $250,000.

Under which President was that top tax rate reduced by 22%?
(cue Jeopardy theme...)

"Who was John F Kennedy?" for $800, Alex! and when that top rate was reduced to 70%, guess what happened?

"Did revenue collected by the income tax increase?" for $1,200! How about that, one of our most beloved liberal Presidents views a major cut in the Federal income tax rate as a signature economic achievement, and tax revenues went up as tax rates went down.

in general, within certain bounds, lower tax rates with fewer deductions produce better voluntary compliance (a good proxy for how 'fair' the system 'feels' to people), better economic activity, and higher tax revenue. If you want the 'rich' to 'pay their fair share' then why isn't collecting more money from them better than collecting less??? Because people refuse to recognize empirical truth in the name of ideological purity?? I really don't know, and it's inflammatory to speculate assertively rather than wonder whether it could possibly be true that way....

Furthermore, I am seriously considering starting a thread called Complementary: Liberal AND Conservative. To me these are not mutually exclusive, if you think carefully each emphasizes different things as "most" important while also allowing that frequently the other's points of emphasis also are "somewhat" important too. * While they are not always in agreement, only rarely are they truly anti-thetical. There is plenty of room to be both, or at least there was not too long ago.



* I can think of perhaps three 'issues' on which the liberal / conservative view would diverge, I'm not quite ready to sing kumbaya around the campfire just yet. It is more my liberal leanings than my conservative ones that leave me feeling impatient with today's liberals. They sometimes advance such inane arguments that I would be embarrassed for people to realize I generally support the same ideals as they do, except for very different reasons.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Considering he was an Communist/Authoritarian who butchered millions of people...um...no.

I've got to say, I'm a little disappointed... Being far left or far right doesn't mean someone is going to butcher millions of people. That's a result of being a dictator not a communist.

For example, Lawrence O'Donnell is about as far left as they come. HE ADMITS THIS! He's said on air that he's a communist.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

I'll take that bet and say 2013. If [redacted] gets re-elected, all taxes will go up. There aren't enough "rich" people around to pay for His Majesty's "free" goodies even if one were to tax the "rich" people at 100% of income.

I was probably exaggerating a bit much with "never", but at the same time, I'd highly doubt it goes back up in 2013. The President yesterday had people tweet to him with what they could do with the extra payroll tax money. I just think the longer it keeps getting extended - we're on what, the 3rd extension now- it gets tougher and tougher to cut off.