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Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

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Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

ScoobyDoo said:
Can I ask a stupid question? Why didn't the Bush Tax Cuts ever have to be offset by spending reductions?

I don't get it.
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Because the tax cuts were a regression toward the maximized amount of revenue generation. Had the GOP remained in power in 2007, current trends may have continued (unlike the spending spree we saw Pelosi going for), thereby leading to a balanced budget.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

ScoobyDoo said:
Woooooooooooooooooooooosh.

I'm not being partisan here, Bob. I want to know why. I understand that the Republicans didn't win here. I actually agree with them to a certain extent. I don't agree with Social Security Trust Fund as a bank for funding stimulus. What I want to know is why this tax cut needs offsetting budget cuts but the Bush Tax Cuts don't. It's a simple question.
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Because Scooby, the theory is tax cuts for the wealthy pay for themselves because the wealthy then re-invest the money back into the economy & Republican re-election campaigns. This of course completely ignores the very real possibility that 1) they can invest the money overseas where they'll get a better return (China for example) and 2) they may just stash the money in the Cayman Islands (there's some guy I'm trying to think of who's doing that, W Mitt something or other). But, if you want an invite to the GOP Convention this year and an autographed picture of Sarah Palin, do NOT question this gospel.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

FlagDUDE08 said:
Because the tax cuts were a regression toward the maximized amount of revenue generation. Had the GOP remained in power in 2007, current trends may have continued (unlike the spending spree we saw Pelosi going for), thereby leading to a balanced budget... when the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny and Santa Claus made it happen
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Fixed your quote since we seem to be writing fiction all of a sudden. ;)
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
Because the tax cuts were a regression toward the maximized amount of revenue generation. Had the GOP remained in power in 2007, current trends may have continued (unlike the spending spree we saw Pelosi going for), thereby leading to a balanced budget.
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Not that group of GOP congressmen / senators . They were prolifigate overspenders too with their own set of rose colored glasses.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Rover said:
Because Scooby, the theory is tax cuts for the wealthy pay for themselves because the wealthy then re-invest the money back into the economy & Republican re-election campaigns. This of course completely ignores the very real possibility that 1) they can invest the money overseas where they'll get a better return (China for example) and 2) they may just stash the money in the Cayman Islands (there's some guy I'm trying to think of who's doing that, W Mitt something or other). But, if you want an invite to the GOP Convention this year and an autographed picture of Sarah Palin, do NOT question this gospel.
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It sounds more like the United States needs to offer a competitive alternative. Perhaps boosting federal funds rates to double digits will help.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Rover said:
Because Scooby, the theory is tax cuts for the wealthy pay for themselves because the wealthy then re-invest the money back into the economy & Republican re-election campaigns. This of course completely ignores the very real possibility that 1) they can invest the money overseas where they'll get a better return (China for example) and 2) they may just stash the money in the Cayman Islands (there's some guy I'm trying to think of who's doing that, W Mitt something or other). But, if you want an invite to the GOP Convention this year and an autographed picture of Sarah Palin, do NOT question this gospel.
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We all know a dollar given to the IRS does more for the economy than a dollar invested, right?
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

pirate said:
We all know a dollar given to the IRS does more for the economy than a dollar invested, right?
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These days, it might - provided that extra dollar was used for deficit reduction.

Think Greece might be wishing they had paid some more taxes over the years right about now?
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

pirate said:
We all know a dollar given to the IRS does more for the economy than a dollar invested, right?
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A dollar given to the IRS is a dollar given to the US Treasury. A dollar borrowed for somebody to invest overseas, in some cases with our arch rivals, does jack for the US economy, but does wonders for the Chinese economy. I guess you have to ask yourself which country you'd rather benefit with US tax dollars.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

LynahFan said:
These days, it might - provided that extra dollar was used for deficit reduction.

Think Greece might be wishing they had paid some more taxes over the years right about now?
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That is my point, a dollar given the the IRS ends up reducing the debt by how much? Much less than a dollar. We'd likely be better off asking our billionaires to just directly pay down the most expensive portion of our debt than laundering it through the DC cesspool.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

pirate said:
That is my point, a dollar given the the IRS ends up reducing the debt by how much? Much less than a dollar. We'd likely be better off asking our billionaires to just directly pay down the most expensive portion of our debt than laundering it through the DC cesspool.
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Send your check to Parkersburg WV.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-ifpEROFT-U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

pirate said:
That is my point, a dollar given the the IRS ends up reducing the debt by how much? Much less than a dollar. We'd likely be better off asking our billionaires to just directly pay down the most expensive portion of our debt than laundering it through the DC cesspool.
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Bad news. The Forbes 400 goes down to Dan Snyder at $1.05B, so that's a pretty good approximation for "our billionaires." Their net worth is only $1.53T. Figure they're all pretty shrewd investors, so let's say they're increasing their wealth (on average) by 15% each year. This gives a total income of $228B, which even with a 100% tax rate would not even come close to covering our deficit - forget about paying down any of the $15T debt.

Taxing a few hundred billionaires is not a silver bullet and is practically irrelevant to the overall math of balanced budgets. Anyone screaming for a tax on billionaires is looking to score political points, not solve problems.

I'm not anti-tax - taxes absolutely should go up, but they need to go up across the board. The fact that a few hundred billionaires will end up paying more taxes as a result of the changes is neither here nor there, and should not be the focus of any sincere tax policy.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Serious question: Does either side actually have a genuine idea about dealing with debt other than by growing the denominator (GDP)?

Debates like the above seem to be the product of (yet more) posturing. Of course taxing the rich isn't going to amount to much of anything in terms of paying down the debt, and the left is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Of course, the reason they're focused on the rich is because the Right disingenuously asserts that revenue shortfalls are not a problem. So of course the Left goes after the lowest-hanging fruit. blah, blah, blah.

Might as well pray for a burst in private sector innovation. There aren't any solutions to be found in DC - either in the WH or on the hill.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

LynahFan said:
Bad news. The Forbes 400 goes down to Dan Snyder at $1.05B, so that's a pretty good approximation for "our billionaires." Their net worth is only $1.53T. Figure they're all pretty shrewd investors, so let's say they're increasing their wealth (on average) by 15% each year. This gives a total income of $228B, which even with a 100% tax rate would not even come close to covering our deficit - forget about paying down any of the $15T debt.

Taxing a few hundred billionaires is not a silver bullet and is practically irrelevant to the overall math of balanced budgets. Anyone screaming for a tax on billionaires is looking to score political points, not solve problems.

I'm not anti-tax - taxes absolutely should go up, but they need to go up across the board. The fact that a few hundred billionaires will end up paying more taxes as a result of the changes is neither here nor there, and should not be the focus of any sincere tax policy.
Click to expand...

Taxes need to maximize budget revenue. Whether that means up or down, I don't know. Total revenues went up in 2005 because of investing, but there's no guarantee the current maximization point is lower.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

amherstblackbear said:
Serious question: Does either side actually have a genuine idea about dealing with debt other than by growing the denominator (GDP)?

Debates like the above seem to be the product of (yet more) posturing. Of course taxing the rich isn't going to amount to much of anything in terms of paying down the debt, and the left is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Of course, the reason they're focused on the rich is because the Right disingenuously asserts that revenue shortfalls are not a problem. So of course the Left goes after the lowest-hanging fruit. blah, blah, blah.

Might as well pray for a burst in private sector innovation. There aren't any solutions to be found in DC - either in the WH or on the hill.
Click to expand...

Yup. Running a deficit to burn out of a recession makes sense.....if you pay it back when you're out. We never do that second part. We spend even more or cut taxes, depending on who's in charge.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

amherstblackbear said:
Serious question: Does either side actually have a genuine idea about dealing with debt other than by growing the denominator (GDP)?

Debates like the above seem to be the product of (yet more) posturing. Of course taxing the rich isn't going to amount to much of anything in terms of paying down the debt, and the left is disingenuous to suggest otherwise. Of course, the reason they're focused on the rich is because the Right disingenuously asserts that revenue shortfalls are not a problem. So of course the Left goes after the lowest-hanging fruit. blah, blah, blah.

Might as well pray for a burst in private sector innovation. There aren't any solutions to be found in DC - either in the WH or on the hill.
Click to expand...

I don't know if there's exactly a Dot Com Boom that we can depend upon.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Priceless said:
There are plenty of ways around PAYGO, but Bush and his Republican friends didn't even bother pretending.
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So your Dems pretend. The Reps don't (for the moment assuming your highly partisan opinion is correct). The end game is the same. Neither party has shown the fiscal restraint needed in recent decades. But, I know you could never admit the Dems are part of the problem.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

FlagDUDE08 said:
Send your check to Parkersburg WV.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/-ifpEROFT-U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Click to expand...

Chuck Woolery? Wow, the right's really hurting for names now :p

Apparently Pat Sajak is a big-time conservative spokesman as well. He's also on the Board of Trustees at Hillsdale College in Michigan. I kid you not.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Twitch Boy said:
Chuck Woolery? Wow, the right's really hurting for names now :p

Apparently Pat Sajak is a big-time conservative spokesman as well. He's also on the Board of Trustees at Hillsdale College in Michigan. I kid you not.
Click to expand...

I wonder if Rolf Benirschke and Bob Goen also fit in that line; we could get ALL the Wheel of Fortune hosts! :D

I knew Pat Sajak was a conservative speaker; one of the few in Hollywood.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

LynahFan said:
Bad news. The Forbes 400 goes down to Dan Snyder at $1.05B, so that's a pretty good approximation for "our billionaires." Their net worth is only $1.53T. Figure they're all pretty shrewd investors, so let's say they're increasing their wealth (on average) by 15% each year. This gives a total income of $228B, which even with a 100% tax rate would not even come close to covering our deficit - forget about paying down any of the $15T debt.

Taxing a few hundred billionaires is not a silver bullet and is practically irrelevant to the overall math of balanced budgets. Anyone screaming for a tax on billionaires is looking to score political points, not solve problems.

I'm not anti-tax - taxes absolutely should go up, but they need to go up across the board. The fact that a few hundred billionaires will end up paying more taxes as a result of the changes is neither here nor there, and should not be the focus of any sincere tax policy.
Click to expand...

Depends on what you mean across the board. Anyone who is paying Zero Federal Income Tax is still paying the same effective tax rate as Mitt Romney. So I propose we change that and eliminate payroll taxes altogether and put into place 3 or 4 tax brackets and count all income the same wherever it comes from. That eliminates the regressive payroll tax and prevents Mitt Romney from paying less taxes than his secretary. And since we don't really have a Social Security trust fund anyway since the idiots in Washington raided it to pay for crap we may as well bring everything together into one simple tax scheme and one simple budget.
 
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