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Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

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Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

I think the data is pretty clear...opinion of the US is largely up.
Look at those goalposts run!

Euro countries specifically are just more liberal than the US, period. Any Democratic President is going to be more popular in Europe than any Republican, so saying that people who like Democrats like Obama is not exactly very revealing. Additionally, look at just 2008-2011. In nearly all of the cases where the favorability is higher in 2011 than it was in 2008, the vast majority of the bump happened in 2009, purely as a response to a Democrat's election before they could possibly have seen any material effect of the change in administration. In many cases, the numbers are actually going down since then, as they come to the realization that America is still America.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

On top of that, in the middle east I expect any bump to occur in the next year or so based on the final withdrawal from Iraq and to be mitigated by whatever Israel feels like spouting in their ongoing urination distance competition with Iran.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Very good chart and worth thinking about. Thanks for posting it.

BTW, does the top row mean the US' favorability in the US? :confused:

The liberals are winning?
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Look at those goalposts run!

Euro countries specifically are just more liberal than the US, period. Any Democratic President is going to be more popular in Europe than any Republican, so saying that people who like Democrats like Obama is not exactly very revealing. Additionally, look at just 2008-2011. In nearly all of the cases where the favorability is higher in 2011 than it was in 2008, the vast majority of the bump happened in 2009, purely as a response to a Democrat's election before they could possibly have seen any material effect of the change in administration. In many cases, the numbers are actually going down since then, as they come to the realization that America is still America.

Better said the US is more conservative than nearly everybody (edit: except for the middle east).

If you think that Europe (and the world) was less a fan of the US during the middle 2000s just because W had an elephant on his lapel...I got some swampland for you. I spent months in Europe overseas and talked to hundreds of Europeans during every presidency since 80. In the middle 2000s there was abject hate in Europe towards the US (I was told on many occasions not to say i was an American). The polls line up perfectly with what I experienced. That experience was nowhere close to what it was under not just Obama and Clinton but also Bush I and Reagan. The W years were unique...maybe you've seen evidence to the contrary...
 
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Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Look at those goalposts run!
5mM was saying one thing while you were responding to me. I didn't change the goalposts, I acknowledged your post was interesting and worth considering. Some of those numbers make me rethink some of the things I've thought about the US profile in the Arab world.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

5mM was saying one thing while you were responding to me. I didn't change the goalposts, I acknowledged your post was interesting and worth considering. Some of those numbers make me rethink some of the things I've thought about the US profile in the Arab world.

Two different folks here, fwiw.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Better said the US is more conservative than nearly everybody (edit: except for the middle east).

If you think that Europe (and the world) was less a fan of the US during the middle 2000s just because W had an elephant on his lapel...I got some swampland for you. I spent months in Europe overseas and talked to hundreds of Europeans during every presidency since 80. In the middle 2000s there was abject hate in Europe towards the US (I was told on many occasions not to say i was an American). The polls line up perfectly with what I experienced. That experience was nowhere close to what it was under not just Obama and Clinton but also Bush I and Reagan. The W years were unique...maybe you've seen evidence to the contrary...

Not at all - the W years were definitely unique. He badly overstepped the mandate that 9/11 gave him and any foreign policy acumen that he may have possessed (not sure - could have been zero). But I think that actually supports my larger point in that the large bump in 2009 was only somewhat due to Obama himself. It's not that Obama is unusually well liked, it's only by comparison to someone who was unusually disliked that he looks so good.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

The liberals are winning?

What liberals? There are only about half a dozen liberals left in politics these days and more of them are Republicans than Democrats!

Andrew Cuomo is about the only prominent liberal remaining in the Democratic Party these days (after they ejected Joe Lieberman). Most of them call themselves "progressives" these days, and liberals and "progressives" are very, very different. (though in my view, most of them are little more than vote-grubbing cynics who stand for nothing other than being re-elected....sort of like cancer cells, they want MORE MORE MORE yet don't even know why any longer).

Romney, Christie, Paul Ryan, they are all mainstream liberals, one of the main reasons why they are having so much trouble gaining traction with the Republican party as a whole.
 
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Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

what liberals? There are only about half a dozen liberals left in politics these days and more of them are republicans than democrats!

Andrew cuomo is about the only prominent liberal remaining in the democratic party these days (after they ejected joe lieberman). Most of them call themselves "progressives" these days, and liberals and "progressives" are very, very different. (though in my view, most of them are little more than vote-grubbing cynics who stand for nothing other than being re-elected....sort of like cancer cells, they want more more more yet don't even know why any longer).

romney, christie, paul ryan, they are all mainstream liberals, one of the main reasons why they are having so much trouble gaining traction with the republican party as a whole.

rotflmao
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

But I think that actually supports my larger point in that the large bump in 2009 was only somewhat due to Obama himself. It's not that Obama is unusually well liked, it's only by comparison to someone who was unusually disliked that he looks so good.
Then your larger-er (largest?) point is that the 2009 bump was the world's gasp of relief when the US vomited Cheney and his ilk back to the editorial pages of NRO.

The US will never be loved while we are a global empire. The arrogance and bumbling of the prior administration, and the kind of eftardery emanating from the current GOP clown car, promoted a cartoon view of America ("Try and stop us"). Obama has presided while we returned to our normal place in the world, which means particular regimes and interest groups will still use us as a scapegoat.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Then your larger-er (largest?) point is that the 2009 bump was the world's gasp of relief when the US vomited Cheney and his ilk back to the editorial pages of NRO.

The US will never be loved while we are a global empire. The arrogance and bumbling of the prior administration, and the kind of eftardery emanating from the current GOP clown car, promoted a cartoon view of America ("Try and stop us"). Obama has presided while we returned to our normal place in the world, which means particular regimes and interest groups will still use us as a scapegoat.
Exactamundo.

I definitely participated in that gasp of relief, though I never really crossed over into the irrational exuberance displayed by some, including Obama himself:

"I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth."
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

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I'm amused by the 1% approval rating in Jordan in 2003.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Romney, Christie, Paul Ryan, they are all mainstream liberals, one of the main reasons why they are having so much trouble gaining traction with the Republican party as a whole.

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Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Then your larger-er (largest?) point is that the 2009 bump was the world's gasp of relief when the US vomited Cheney and his ilk back to the editorial pages of NRO.

The US will never be loved while we are a global empire. The arrogance and bumbling of the prior administration, and the kind of eftardery emanating from the current GOP clown car, promoted a cartoon view of America ("Try and stop us"). Obama has presided while we returned to our normal place in the world, which means particular regimes and interest groups will still use us as a scapegoat.

I'm guessing you'd approve of dusting off the Morgenthau Plan and applying to us, instead of Germany.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

fwiw (very little?) I felt safe as hell in the Middle East in the mid-90's the year I was there and I wasn't on a US base. Although that reminds me of something...

In 1996 over the 4th, I and friends went to our favorite pub and when we walked into the billiards room on the blackboard was written, "Happy US Independence Day" in English and Arabic. Good feelings following GW1 still lingered and aside from the usual English puffs that felt it necessary to verbally joust for any excuse, most Middle Easterners and non-US expats were in good cheer. Later we were lucky enough to be allowed on the US base for the day to enjoy fireworks, hot dogs and goddamit a Bud or two or three...
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

Romney, Christie, Paul Ryan, they are all mainstream liberals, one of the main reasons why they are having so much trouble gaining traction with the Republican party as a whole.


As ridiculous as this statement appears (is), it is shared by many conservatives. Many years ago I got into an argument with a ditto-head (self-proclaimed and strangely proud of it :confused:) friend of mine when I told him that I liked McCain and he said, that's because he's a liberal and you (meaning me) are a liberal.

I said, he's not liberal, he may be a moderate Republican, but he's far from being a liberal. His response? If you're not a true conservative (meaning far right), you are a liberal. And since I am not far right, I also am a liberal.

We went back and forth and as far as he was concerned, McCain = Pelosi.

This kind of all-or-nothing attitude alienates a lot of people like me who would vote for a moderate Republican if I thought he/she was the best option. In fact, back when they existed, I voted for moderate Republicans several times.

The current GOP's strategy of eliminating any and all moderates and refusing to compromise continues to disgust me as I believe that our government works best when power is shared/balanced and both sides are forced to compromise. At least that used to work well until this bat-**** crazy Teabag party came along.

FF - you say that Ryan is a liberal? And that's why he can't get traction? If that's the case, then about 75% of Americans are liberal, and that's why a nut-job like Santorum will never, ever win the presidency. Thank God.
 
Re: Obama XXIII: The Muslin Anti-Christ Wages War on the forces of Christianity!

FF - you say that Ryan is a liberal? And that's why he can't get traction? If that's the case, then about 75% of Americans are liberal.

I'd say about 75% of US voters are liberal and also that about 75% of US voters are conservative because in real life these are not mutually exclusive terms. Only political fanatics obsessed with party in-fighting think that you can only be one or the other, regular folk are quite comfortable being both at the same time with no discomfort at all.

The liberal tradition extends from Locke to Jefferson to Martin Luther King Jr to Daniel Patrick Moynihan and stresses (1) individual liberty, (2) free markets, (3) the potential worth and value of each person. The antithesis to the liberal is the totalitarian. Today, the fashionable term for totalitarian is "progressive": we know what's best for you better than you know yourself; we must control every aspect of your life for your own good.

Conservative tradition runs from Burke to Franklin and the drafters of the Constitution to John Paul II and stresses (1) respect the wisdom of your elders, (2) individual responsibility and initiative, and (3) all human beings are fallible, hence the need for separation of powers and checks and balances. The antithesis to the conservative is the radical. As Karl Marx might say, "'Tradition' is merely a tool used by those in power to oppress the rest of us; government is a tool of the elite used to keep the masses in check." If Karl Marx were alive today, he'd be an ardent supporter of the Tea Party; he understood with perfect clarity that no government "cares" about regular people, the only thing that people in government care about is remaining in power.

The etymology of "liberal" is from "liberty."

Interestingly, "conservation" and "conservative" have the same etymology. Many sound environmental policies come from hunters and fishers! For example; with the elimination of natural predators, ungulates would over-breed, over-graze, and then have huge death rates due to the resulting food shortages; hence the use of Dept of Conservation personnel to survey game populations and determine how many hunting permits to issue each year, in order to maintain a stable and healthy ungulate population.

This potent combination of liberal AND conservative explains the domestic appeal of Reagan's political coalition, and the astounding success that Reagan / Thatcher / John Paul II had in winning the Cold War: they made liberty and freedom such a strong moral issue that the Communist leaders came to quail at the prospect of suppressing their own people by violent force. By a direct appeal to both the liberal and the conservative tradition they made an enormously effective force.

Ironically, the reason that Reagan decided to win the Cold War was because, when he became President, he became responsible for our nuclear arsenal. He found the concept of Mutually Assured Destruction to be morally repugnant, not to mention crazy as well. It was his principled rejection of M.A.D. that "forced" him to find another way to end the stalemate.

Now I realize that Reagan was no saint and there are lots of grounds from which to criticize him; at the same time, there IS a widespread consensus among historians (they hold a vote every ten years or so on the greatest presidents, and of course Washington is always # 1, and deservedly so) that Reagan is one of the five best Presidents we've had. So don't argue with me, go out and argue with them. :p

For those of you too young to remember the 1970s, you have no idea how much he changed the mood and the course of our nation. There's a lot of revisionist history going around these days in which people rewrite what happened after the fact in order retroactively to suit a prevailing present-day narrative, even though said narrative did not even exist at the time the original events were occuring.
 
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