Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

What is wrong with civil unions / ensuring the same legal rights as "traditional" marriage. Then wouldn't both sides be happy?

No, see - the point is that if we don't allow gays to enjoy the rights and benefits of marriage via civil unions, then they're all going to decide that it's just not worth it to be gay, so they'll all choose to become straight, enter traditional heterosexual marriages, and procreate. You know - the way the flying spaghetti monster intended.

 

[Bakunin]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Yes, odd that people will "whine" about injustice when it rears its ugly head. How unusual. How un-American! It would be so much better for this country if we all just turned our heads and pretended not to notice.

They're missing out on divorces, alimony payments, and child support.

I'd call it a push.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

They're missing out on divorces, alimony payments, and child support.

I'd call it a push.

Also a nagging partner is just categorically not the same as a nagging spouse. It's a whole other level of hell. But it's only the second level of three.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

@ZekeJMiller: Obama on why he pushed, HCR, Dodd-Frank “Because I believe in God’s command to love thy neighbor as myself.”

Theocracy!111!

 

[French Rage]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

You could give marraige to the churches to do what they want, no rights or strings attached. If you want rights whether your straight or gay, go get a civil union from the gov.

That will never do because the reps want to restrict rights, and the dems just want to whine.

I would not whine about that at all, I've been saying it should be that way for years now.

I think social conservatives would hate that plan even more though. With gay marriage, it's bad because the gay relationship gets elevated to their level, but with that plan they would probably see it as a demotion for them, from "marriage" to "civil union" (even though they could still get married by a church, but sound bites usually don't convey the entire message).

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Some good suggestions here...as long as employers, insurers, IRS etc. recognize a union (vs. marriage) in how they relate like individuals and policies then marriage could be as separate from the legal issues as being born again, confirmed, bar mitvahed etc. Those are all significant religious mileposts, but they don't impact your legal standing nor your eligibility for benefits.

Correct me if I'm wrong, I got married a long time ago (and am very happy, should she ever peek over my shoulder and see this post) but we had to get a license before the deal was official. So, there already is a distinct process flow that separates the government or legal recognition from the religious recognition.

Now, it may be that some religions would also allow a same sex marriage...others wouldn't have to if they chose. Religious minded people could choose their religion based on that policy much the same as they choose based on equality of genders, number of wives allowed, quantity of virgins in the afterlife and whether weekend services overlap with the start of football games...you know, all the important things that wars have been fought over for a few thousand years.

 

[French Rage]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Correct me if I'm wrong, I got married a long time ago (and am very happy, should she ever peek over my shoulder and see this post) but we had to get a license before the deal was official. So, there already is a distinct process flow that separates the government or legal recognition from the religious recognition.

Now, it may be that some religions would also allow a same sex marriage...others wouldn't have to if they chose. Religious minded people could choose their religion based on that policy much the same as they choose based on equality of genders, number of wives allowed, quantity of virgins in the afterlife and whether weekend services overlap with the start of football games...you know, all the important things that wars have been fought over for a few thousand years.

Good point, and plus even now I think a church could do a same sex ceremony even in a state where gay marriage is not recognized, it's just that it would have no legal standing. So really things are separate to a large extent now, we would just be making the separation more official.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Good point, and plus even now I think a church could do a same sex ceremony even in a state where gay marriage is not recognized, it's just that it would have no legal standing. So really things are separate to a large extent now, we would just be making the separation more official.

Separation of church and state?? How could that ever work?

We'll have none of that in THIS country, thankyouverymuch!

 

[Tundra]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

I agree. California is a special case though. How they got to the point where their doing everything at the ballot box is beyond me. I'm sure somewhere someone wrote about it. Maybe I'll find an article.

Probably all the corruption scandals and shenanigans their legislature has overtly flaunted. I wish we had a national ballot that we could vote on... every 4 years with the presidential election. abortion, drugs, gay marriage, balanced budget, claw back, corporate taxes, etc...90% turn out.

http://news.yahoo.com/senate-passes-insider-trading-ban-231000270.html

In 2005, the SEC investigated then-Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee concerning his divestiture of stock in the family's hospital company days before its price fell on an analyst's forecast. Frist was not charged with wrongdoing.

To a large extent, Congress is reacting to a segment on CBS' "60 Minutes" that raised questions about stock trades by House Speaker John Boehner, the husband of House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi and Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Ala., chairman of the Financial Services Committee. All have denied wrongdoing and denounced the network's story.

 

[joecct]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Probably all the corruption scandals and shenanigans their legislature has overtly flaunted. I wish we had a national ballot that we could vote on... every 4 years with the presidential election. abortion, drugs, gay marriage, balanced budget, claw back, corporate taxes, etc...90% turn out.

http://news.yahoo.com/senate-passes-insider-trading-ban-231000270.html

Most of those are state issues. I don't want every state to be identical - that would be boring and against, I believe, what our Founders wanted. We still get to vote with our feet if conditions in one state are too onerous.

 

[pirate]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Most of those are state issues. I don't want every state to be identical - that would be boring and against, I believe, what our Founders wanted. We still get to vote with our feet if conditions in one state are too onerous.

I could see states getting together on some of those issues. Tax incentives wouldn't be one, they'd want to compete on those. In as much as states were worried that variances would create unintended consequences for them, they might agree on somethings. Alaska and Hawaii wouldn't have to worry about border creep so they could do as the constituents wished.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Separation of church and state?? How could that ever work?

We'll have none of that in THIS country, thankyouverymuch!

The excesses of the abortion and gay rights debates come from either the church trying to tell the state what to do or the state trying to tell the church what to do. Firming up that wall again should be a top priority of both religious and secular citizens, not just because it's a basic value of the American system, but to preserve their freedoms.

If a church takes state money or is in some other way integrated into state programs, they have to play by state rules. Otherwise... vaya con Dios.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Most of those are state issues. I don't want every state to be identical - that would be boring and against, I believe, what our Founders wanted. We still get to vote with our feet if conditions in one state are too onerous.

I hate when people say "That isnt what our Founders wanted" like they all agreed on stuff. The Founders were divided about pretty much everything the only thing they wanted is for their side to be right.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

I hate when people say "That isnt what our Founders wanted" like they all agreed on stuff. The Founders were divided about pretty much everything the only thing they wanted is for their side to be right.

Sarah Palin says the Founders are always right, so they must be always right.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Sarah Palin says the Founders are always right, so they must be always right.

As Colbert says...22 billionaires choose our president, just the way the 22 guys who chose our founding fathers would have wanted.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

As Colbert says...22 billionaires choose our president, just the way the 22 guys who chose our founding fathers would have wanted.

Ouch. Too true.

Our Founding Fathers wouldn't have had much use for Sarah Palin. Well, except for Franklin.

 

[Priceless]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Ouch. Too true.

Our Founding Fathers wouldn't have had much use for Sarah Palin. Well, except for Franklin.

I'm sure some of them could have found a use for her...

 

[Old Pio]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

Donald Benjamin. . .Simon Bollander. . .Al "Dick" Perry. . .Wayne Charles Arnett and Kip Dean. These are just some of the 23 worthies listed on my primary ballot. Decisions, decisions.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

What is wrong with civil unions / ensuring the same legal rights as "traditional" marriage. Then wouldn't both sides be happy?

Newt Gingrich seems happy enough with his current civil union.

I haven't been a good Catholic since my first communion, but...

I remember enough about the sacraments to know that what Newt has with Calista isn't one.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Obama XXII: Occupy the White House

I remember enough about the sacraments to know that what Newt has with Calista isn't one.

He may actually have gotten an annulment from wifey 2. Wifey 1 died so that's OK with the Pope.